Forward thinking to next year

[thecampster]

I've been looking pretty heavy at the Hawks after the Bibby trade and trying to make sense of their cap situation. Current situation for 2011/2012 is this:

7 players under contract. (all signed through 2013 except Kirk)

Joe - $18 million

Josh - $ 12.4 million

Al - 12.0 million

Kirk - 8 million

Marvin - 7.5 million

Zaza - 4.75 million

Teague - 1.6 million

Total: 64 million.

Meaning as currently constructed we can only sign new players for the minimum or the exception except for our own players. Given the current numbers we only have 8 million before the luxury tax and must sign 5 players minimum.

Givens: Etan, Powell will not be back.

there are only a couple of possibilities I can see for juggling the roster. the way I see it, Joe - Marvin - Zaza are our 3 albatross contracts. Josh, Al, Kirk (assuming he's 15/6 like his career when starting at the point) give you reasonable production for their salaries. But Joe's salary is just too large when making choices between he and Al/Josh at 2/3rds the cost.

Either Joe or Jamal will get traded.....either Jamal in a sign and trade or Joe in a multiplayer shakeup. The Hawks can not afford both with Josh/Al eating up 24 million (1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold).

the problem is created because Joe/Al/Josh get a combined 9.2 million dollar raise next year. (mostly Al then Joe). So I'm guessing Joe is traded in the offseason for 2-3 contracts, one of which would be a starting caliber shooting guard. Then, 2 of the 3 of Zaza, Marvin, Jamal are then trade for 3+ players.

I think this is it guys...this is the ASG's run at a title with this core...I think there is a small blow up in the offseason if we do not reach the ECF. The roster will get too thin otherwise without cap/LT room to replenish.

[Dragitoff]

I've been looking pretty heavy at the Hawks after the Bibby trade and trying to make sense of their cap situation. Current situation for 2011/2012 is this:

7 players under contract. (all signed through 2013 except Kirk)

Joe - $18 million

Josh - $ 12.4 million

Al - 12.0 million

Kirk - 8 million

Marvin - 7.5 million

Zaza - 4.75 million

Teague - 1.6 million

Total: 64 million.

Meaning as currently constructed we can only sign new players for the minimum or the exception except for our own players. Given the current numbers we only have 8 million before the luxury tax and must sign 5 players minimum.

Givens: Etan, Powell will not be back.

there are only a couple of possibilities I can see for juggling the roster. the way I see it, Joe - Marvin - Zaza are our 3 albatross contracts. Josh, Al, Kirk (assuming he's 15/6 like his career when starting at the point) give you reasonable production for their salaries. But Joe's salary is just too large when making choices between he and Al/Josh at 2/3rds the cost.

Either Joe or Jamal will get traded.....either Jamal in a sign and trade or Joe in a multiplayer shakeup. The Hawks can not afford both with Josh/Al eating up 24 million (1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold).

the problem is created because Joe/Al/Josh get a combined 9.2 million dollar raise next year. (mostly Al then Joe). So I'm guessing Joe is traded in the offseason for 2-3 contracts, one of which would be a starting caliber shooting guard. Then, 2 of the 3 of Zaza, Marvin, Jamal are then trade for 3+ players.

I think this is it guys...this is the ASG's run at a title with this core...I think there is a small blow up in the offseason if we do not reach the ECF. The roster will get too thin otherwise without cap/LT room to replenish.

I've been doing the same thing (mainly because I'm planning my off-season moves on 2K lol), but I see it a little differently. I think they'll try to trade Marvin and ZaZa (possibly even Smoove) to clear some space. I'd think something like Marvin and ZaZa for Chris Kaman. It's not a great move, but Kaman's a large expiring that, along with Kirk could clear up enough space to go after someone like Dwight Howard after the 2012 season. I think that's the long-term goal. Personally, I'd love to see us sign & trade Jamal for other deals that expire after 2012. We'd still have a playoff team next year, even could be considered contenders IF Kaman could stay healthy for 60+ games next season.

I'd like to see them fill the remaining roster spots with vet guys who want to win. Assuming they don't retire, guys like Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neal, etc... will be FA's. I think we bring Damien back and depending on what we do with the other Center spots, I could see us bringing either Collins and/or Armstrong back. Armstrong intrigues me because he's younger and could play PF as well as C.

[thecampster]

I've been doing the same thing (mainly because I'm planning my off-season moves on 2K lol), but I see it a little differently. I think they'll try to trade Marvin and ZaZa (possibly even Smoove) to clear some space. I'd think something like Marvin and ZaZa for Chris Kaman. It's not a great move, but Kaman's a large expiring that, along with Kirk could clear up enough space to go after someone like Dwight Howard after the 2012 season. I think that's the long-term goal. Personally, I'd love to see us sign & trade Jamal for other deals that expire after 2012. We'd still have a playoff team next year, even could be considered contenders IF Kaman could stay healthy for 60+ games next season.

I'd like to see them fill the remaining roster spots with vet guys who want to win. Assuming they don't retire, guys like Grant Hill, Shaquille O'Neal, etc... will be FA's. I think we bring Damien back and depending on what we do with the other Center spots, I could see us bringing either Collins and/or Armstrong back. Armstrong intrigues me because he's younger and could play PF as well as C.

I understand where you are coming from but you need to reread my post. The entire roster of 7 is pretty much committed for the Dwight sweepstakes. One of the main draws of bringing Dwight is to play with his best friend Josh Smith.

Josh, AL, Joe together will be making $44,952,645 in Dwight's free agency year. The current NBA Salary cap is $58 million. There is talk of the cap going down, not up. Bu assuming we gave away Teague, Zaza, Marvin for nothing (or expirings), let Kirk walk and signed no one else, we would only have about 13 million a year for Dwight (he's a max player obviously).

Also, if you haven't traded Josh by then you won't do so at all because Josh would be expiring at the end of that year and that's a huge draw for someone.

This is it and or Joe has to go and we aren't keeping Craw. If you also look at Marvin/Zaza's combined cap hit in 2011/2012 it's 12.25 , million. In 12/13 Zaza is a FA...and Marvin is on a player option for 7.5 million (which at this point I'm sure he'll have to take).

We are hosed if we can not do it this year and or trade Joe's monster deal.

[warcore]

interesting topic. I think we'd have to complete a sign and trade with Horford to ORL if Dwight wants to leave and get paid the big bucks; but trading Johnson's contract would be way better. Could you imagine a front line of Smoove, Horf, Dwight!?!?! Easily the greatest of all time. We would contend no matter how thin our back court would be.

[Supporter]

Realistically you take Joe out and the only way to go is to the lottery or try to win a championship with Josh and Al, because no major free agent wants to sign in Atlanta.

[coachx]

Either Joe or Jamal will get traded.....either Jamal in a sign and trade or Joe in a multiplayer shakeup. The Hawks can not afford both with Josh/Al eating up 24 million (1/3 of the Luxury Tax threshold).

You do realize that if the Hawks trade Crawford in a sign and trade for a $7 mill to $10 mill contract coming back that it will put the Hawks in the luxury tax....right ? Its tough to get much value in a sign and trade.

I think Crawford will either play for a 50 win team for the MLE or a poor team for more money. That is up to Crawford.Teams are not going to over pay a 31 year old SG. Teams with cap space will hold on to it and hope for Paul, Williams, or Howard in 2012. I think the Hawks may offer Crawford the MLE but nothing more.

Rick Sund's contract is up after this season. It will be intersting to see what happens with ownership too.

The Hawks playoff performance will have a lot to do with any plan moving foward.

Edited March 1, 2011 by coachx

[Dragitoff]

I understand where you are coming from but you need to reread my post. The entire roster of 7 is pretty much committed for the Dwight sweepstakes. One of the main draws of bringing Dwight is to play with his best friend Josh Smith.

Josh, AL, Joe together will be making $44,952,645 in Dwight's free agency year. The current NBA Salary cap is $58 million. There is talk of the cap going down, not up. Bu assuming we gave away Teague, Zaza, Marvin for nothing (or expirings), let Kirk walk and signed no one else, we would only have about 13 million a year for Dwight (he's a max player obviously).

Also, if you haven't traded Josh by then you won't do so at all because Josh would be expiring at the end of that year and that's a huge draw for someone.

This is it and or Joe has to go and we aren't keeping Craw. If you also look at Marvin/Zaza's combined cap hit in 2011/2012 it's 12.25 , million. In 12/13 Zaza is a FA...and Marvin is on a player option for 7.5 million (which at this point I'm sure he'll have to take).

We are hosed if we can not do it this year and or trade Joe's monster deal.

Does the NBA allow for players to re-negotiate their contracts like they do in MLB? I know it's a highly unlikely scneario, but there's been a few cases where players have renegotiated their contracts (John Smoltz with the Braves) to give the team some financial flexibility for the future. Is it possible Joe, Josh, or Al take a little less to make room for Dwight? Could you imagine a starting lineup of: PG, Joe, Smoove, Al, Dwight?

You do realize that if the Hawks trade Crawford in a sign and trade for a $7 mill = $10 mill deal that it will put them in the luxury tax....right ? Its tough to get much value in a sign and trade.

I think Crawford will either play for a 50 win team for the MLE or a poor team for more money. That is up to Crawford. I think the Hawks may offer Crawford the MLE but nothing more.

Rick Sund's contract is up after this season. It will be intersting to see what happens with ownership too.

Couldn't they trade him to a team under the cap and take back a lesser costing player?

[coachx]

Couldn't they trade him to a team under the cap and take back a lesser costing player?

Yes, but I can't see why rebuilding teams would want a 31 year old SG. Most of those teams go with a youth movement.

It just takes 1 team though. Mybe the Nets get Deron Williams a toy. The Pacers have money and a SG need too.

I just wonder if the Hawks could get anything for Crawford in a sign and trade other then an unwanted contract from a cellar dwellar. If we are wanting a lesser contract back. Perhaps there is an aging veteran that another team would like to move that is better then the minimum salay players that would be available in the 2011 free agent market.

If Crawford can either make money or lose money with his playoff performance.

Edited March 1, 2011 by coachx

[Dragitoff]

Yes, but I can't see why rebuilding teams would want a 31 year old SG. Most of those teams go with a youth movement.

It just takes 1 team though. Mybe the Nets get Deron Williams a toy. The Pacers have money and a SG need too.

I just wonder if the Hawks could get anything for Crawford in a sign and trade other then an unwanted contract from a cellar dwellar. If we are wanting a lesser contract back. Perhaps there is an aging veteran that another team would like to move that is better then the minimum salay players that would be available in the 2011 free agent market.

If Crawford can either make money or lose money with his playoff performance.

The Pacers have Dahntay Jones who's a good defender and will be in the last year of his contract. Maybe Dahntay and a Pacer's 1st round pick for a re-signed Jamal?