So what's the deal with Josh and Kirk?

[Admin]

So far I've only had time to watch the 1st quarter of the Blazers game and outside of that amazing 12 seconds from Teague we looked pretty bad, at least offensively, but there was a series of plays that really bothered me. First when we were on offense Josh had the ball and had Kirk standing next to him asking for the ball and Josh completely ignored him and then turned the ball over attempting a stupid pass. Then on defense immediately after Kirk gets knocked down trying to take a charge and gets called for the foul but he falls next to Josh and from what I can tell Josh didn't even try and help him up. Kirk went out of the game at that point with 2 fouls so I haven't seen them back on the court again together yet in that game.

So the question is did anyone else notice this (sorry if it's been discussed but I've been away from the computer this weekend) and do you guys think there is a problem between the two of them?

Oh and damn I can't wait to see Jamal playing for someone else next year!

[JohnnyCASH]

So far I've only had time to watch the 1st quarter of the Blazers game and outside of that amazing 12 seconds from Teague we looked pretty bad, at least offensively, but there was a series of plays that really bothered me. First when we were on offense Josh had the ball and had Kirk standing next to him asking for the ball and Josh completely ignored him and then turned the ball over attempting a stupid pass. Then on defense immediately after Kirk gets knocked down trying to take a charge and gets called for the foul but he falls next to Josh and from what I can tell Josh didn't even try and help him up. Kirk went out of the game at that point with 2 fouls so I haven't seen them back on the court again together yet in that game.

So the question is did anyone else notice this (sorry if it's been discussed but I've been away from the computer this weekend) and do you guys think there is a problem between the two of them?

Oh and damn I can't wait to see Jamal playing for someone else next year!

yea i noticed the exact same things but i think its mainly because josh thinks hes Magic Johnson but its really annoying when he pulls those stupid stunts of his

[Blunt91]

I thought Josh was the one clapping his hands to get Kirk's atttention to pass the ball to him.

[terrell]

I thought Josh was the one clapping his hands to get Kirk's atttention to pass the ball to him.

Thats exactly what I saw. Glad Kirk ignored him. Need him inside, not on the perimeter. Good for Kirk. Josh was prolly just trying to pay him back. Btw, Jamal prolly fed their heads with a lot of b-s*** about Hinrich before he even arrived. They didnt get along in Chicago.

[Admin]

I thought Josh was the one clapping his hands to get Kirk's atttention to pass the ball to him.

That must have been later in the game I'm guessing. The series that I'm referring to happened in the last few minutes of the quarter when Kirk went out with his 2nd foul.

If what you're saying happened then maybe there is some bad blood between them?

[coachx]

So far I've only had time to watch the 1st quarter of the Blazers game and outside of that amazing 12 seconds from Teague we looked pretty bad, at least offensively, but there was a series of plays that really bothered me. First when we were on offense Josh had the ball and had Kirk standing next to him asking for the ball and Josh completely ignored him and then turned the ball over attempting a stupid pass. Then on defense immediately after Kirk gets knocked down trying to take a charge and gets called for the foul but he falls next to Josh and from what I can tell Josh didn't even try and help him up. Kirk went out of the game at that point with 2 fouls so I haven't seen them back on the court again together yet in that game.

So the question is did anyone else notice this (sorry if it's been discussed but I've been away from the computer this weekend) and do you guys think there is a problem between the two of them?

Oh and damn I can't wait to see Jamal playing for someone else next year!

I saw the exact same things and some more.

There were a few of times where Smoove ignored Hinrich and decided to run the break himself. Of course they ended up in turnovers by Josh. I can't say I'm suprised b/c Josh has done that his whole career. Bibby never corrected it b/c he was too slow to lead the break but Hinrich is quicker then Bibby.

Hinrich had to leave half way through the 1st quarter with 2 fouls. When it was time for Smoove to take a beather everyoine was giving Smoove 5 but Hinrich.........Hinrich simply turned his head the other way. Howeverm Smoove did at least sit beside Hinrich.

Smoove's stupidy is pissing Hinrich off just like it pisses all of us off. Hinrich played for Roy Williams and Scott Skiles.......2 coaches who don't put up with the stupid kind of decisions Josh has continually made through his 7 year career.

Edited March 14, 2011 by coachx

[Admin]

Okay I was wrong on the time it was earlier in the quarter and here are some screenshots to show what I'm talking about ...

I saw the exact same things and some more.

There were a few of times where Smoove ignored Hinrich and decided to run the break himself. Of course they ended up in turnovers by Josh. I can't say I'm suprised b/c Josh has done that his whole career. Bibby never corrected it b/c he was too slow to lead the break but Hinrich is quicker then Bibby.

Hinrich had to leave half way through the 1st quarter with 2 fouls. When it was time for Smoove to take a beather everyoine was giving Smoove 5 but Hinrich.........Hinrich simply turned his head the other way. Howeverm Smoove did at least sit beside Hinrich.

Smoove's stupidy is pissing Hinrich off just like it pisses all of us off. Hinrich played for Roy Williams and Scott Skiles.......2 coaches who don't put up with the stupid kind of decisions Josh has continually made through his 7 year career.

Good eyes on the bench play as I didn't catch that one. Smoove may be more of our future than Hinrich, who replaced Smoove's boy and all, but that doesn't mean that he should just give him the cold shoulder and try and freeze him out like that.

I tell you I love our versatility but there are so many times that I find myself saying I wish we had a more traditional team with bigs that played in the paint and a PG that ran the show.

[Kimsey]

He actually made a nice read according to the picture but threw a bad pass. Kirk has committed 18 tos and 18 assist since the trade. Smith has committed 20 tos and 26 assists in the same time period.

Since teague has asserted himself and a proven one man fastbreak, smith should give him the ball alot more after a rebound. Matthews looks very small standing next to joe.

[coachx]

Okay I was wrong on the time it was earlier in the quarter and here are some screenshots to show what I'm talking about ...

Good eyes on the bench play as I didn't catch that one. Smoove may be more of our future than Hinrich, who replaced Smoove's boy and all, but that doesn't mean that he should just give him the cold shoulder and try and freeze him out like that.

I tell you I love our versatility but there are so many times that I find myself saying I wish we had a more traditional team with bigs that played in the paint and a PG that ran the show.

I think its a "Smoove problem" rather then a "Hinrich problem."

Neither Woodson, Drew, or Bibby were able to get Josh to limit his turnovers and make better decions. Maybe Hinrich eventually gets through to him. I'm not counting on it though. He is who he is as a 7 year veteran now.

[Admin]

He actually made a nice read according to the picture but threw a bad pass. Kirk has committed 18 tos and 18 assist since the trade. Smith has committed 20 tos and 26 assists in the same time period.

A few points:

• The read doesn't matter when he makes an awful pass that leads to the other team going in transition.
• Kirk is the PG and should be initiating the offense, Smoove should be on the block or somewhere near the paint.
• Smoove may have a better, although still atrocious, A:To ratio since the trade but keep in mind Hinrich has had 1 practice with the team and Smoove has been here for 7 years so he should have a much bigger advantage than the one you listed.

I think its a "Smoove problem" rather then a "Hinrich problem."

Neither Woodson, Drew, or Bibby were able to get Josh to limit his turnovers and make better decions. Maybe Hinrich eventually gets through to him. I'm not counting on it though. He is who he is as a 7 year veteran now.

I hope that's the case!!

Then again maybe Smoove is secretly mad at Hinrich since Bibby was the guy that Smoove liked to rub on in timeouts? :friends:

[Kimsey]

The read was correct, doesn't matter who had the ball in that instance I would want them to lob that pass to an obvious much bigger joe johnson to matthews. Most of the headaches smith causes concerning turnovers are on the break.

[Admin]

The read was correct, doesn't matter who had the ball in that instance I would want them to lob that pass to an obvious much bigger joe johnson to matthews. Most of the headaches smith causes concerning turnovers are on the break.

Maybe in playground basketball the read was correct but I'm guessing that on an NBA team he should have given the ball to Kirk, who very likely could have still made the same pass to Joe and is better equipped to make that pass.

The bottom line is that we're far better off having our PGs handling the ball and while Josh is a better passer than he gets credit for he has been playing pretty wildly lately with some of his passes and I'd rather have him focus on doing what he does best.

[GST]

Because of the way this team is run, there are no personal consequences for Josh when he does stuff like this. Don't hold your breath waiting for Smith to change.

[JackB1]

Playing alongside Josh is frustrating for everyone. The other Hawks players are "used to" Josh's stupid tactics, but I guess nobody warned Kirk?

I have noticed a definite rift between Smith and Hinrich developing. Josh insists on running the break with Kirk looking for the ball. Josh seems to

also think he's better at running the point than Kirk (witness the "clapping incident"). I blame this situation on the coach. Drew should step in and

defend Kirk for wanting the ball on the breal or running the point. He shouldn't stand by and watch Josh frustrate our new player and ruin team

chemistry.

Again...making Josh a captain was a HUGE mistake. He probably thinks he has the authority to tell Kirk what to do.

[niremetal]

He actually made a nice read according to the picture but threw a bad pass.

"He took the right road. Too bad he totaled the car on the way there."

Josh is a great passer for his position. But I'd still prefer to have Hinrich running the break or initiating the offense 10 times out of 10.

The pictures are priceless, btw.

Edited March 14, 2011 by niremetal

[Wretch]

I thought I was reading too much into it, but I picked up on Hinrich's body language around Smoove a while back. He's clearly annoyed and it's definitely a Smoove problem. Kirk is a PG and is looking to run the show. Smoove's play is often the anti-PG.

[Bawse]

LMAO!!!

This further proves Josh is dumber than a bag of hammers. Either that, or he legitimately is upset with the change at point and doesn't trust Kirk yet, like i've been saying. Either way, this should NOT go unnoticed, and Josh's *ss should be benched for this kind of stupid play. The point runs the offense, this is fundamental basketball 101.

[Admin]

The pictures are priceless, btw.

Just updated the graphic to finish the play off and add some captions to show what was going on.

[tremor]

Smoove lost more in my eyes than he lost because of all his ill-advised shots this season.

[niremetal]

Just updated the graphic to finish the play off and add some captions to show what was going on.

Add a "Kirk's blood pressure" meter at the top right of the screen, and it'd be perfect :rolleyes: