So what's the deal with Josh and Kirk?

[Joker]

Other things you'll notice by breaking down #5:

-He never throws an outlet pass.

-He throws a TON of one-handed passes.

-He throws a TON of cross-court passes.

-He does not have basic fundamentals like a chest pass or a bounce pass.

-He can't dribble well at all.

-His one-on-one defense is not very good. His footwork is poor and he leaves cushions.

It is fairly obvious that, to this point, #5 has never had a coach actually teach him anything and the ship may have sailed on him ever learning the basics of the game. You can tell his coaches just threw him out there in HS and it worked because of his athleticism. Throw in Woody and LD...the ULTIMATE enablers, and you have an undisciplined player who buys way too far into his own hype and puts on displays like the one pictured.

What he needs is a strong dose of reality. I wish we could ship him off to a summer basketball camp where they make you work on defense, free throws, passing, etc. More than anything, he absolutely needs someone to tell him when he is doing something wrong.

Poor Kirk...trying to play smart...he's is so far in over his head on this team.

The funny thing about this is he has actually improve from when I used to review him. I remember getting so much hate when I first join for being a "Smoove" hater. People on here at that time thought he was going to be Nique Jr since he won the dunk contest. He peaking right where I knew he would peak. He's basically a Shawn Marion type but with more talent but less BBIQ. He has been trained, I spoke to ppl how worked with him when he was younger. Josh is just hard headed. He has bad habits and they take over at times. No dose of reality can help that. He really is talented. He could average 20-24 ppg on an awful team and this point in his career.

Kirk will be okay, he just needs time to adjust. He looking at players strengths but is having the hardest time trying to figure out why they don't play to it. Well Kirk, it's simple. Because the offense revolves around Joe, everyone except Horford which is starting to change wants to get there's first and some players are mad at some of the players in leadership. Bibby as much of an oddball could get the team into sets, right now, this team doesn't get into sets. That's what I miss about Bibby but most importantly and the only thing that probably can't change is Horford bread and butter, aka the PnR. We can't run it with Hinrich or Teague. Both are just solid in the PnR. We need very good or elite at the PnR to truly get Horford going. His numbers offensively will keep going down this season. It sucks but Al will have to find other ways to score or contribute in other areas. Joe's shooting is killing the team but he's getting a lot of attention from teams. They double him all the time and know you beat Joe, you beat the Hawks. Without Bibby, that's starting to be extremely effective. Bibby was a nuisance but he did things we really needed offensively.

I really see no lateral or -/+ trades that will make us better. The moves teams will do will just make us worst. I think we have to do or die and go for Dwight or CP3 through trade which could be very possible. That's our only hope.

[Joker]

Besides all the coaches that don't select him for the All Star game coach K also bounced him very quickly from Team USA for pulling the same crap. As long as he's in Atlanta and the coaches are dependent on the owners paying their salary then Josh will be able to do whatever he wants without consequence. Honestly, if your owner thinks you are the next best thing to Lebron then there's really no one else in the organization that could point out to you otherwise. Woody had tried in the beginning but once his job started to be in jeopardy he had to reach a compromise between getting Josh to play the way he wanted and ignoring the times he chose to freelance. It just is what it is until we get new ownership or a coach that the owners value more than certain players.

I spoke to his guys a few years back. Not his friends but guys who worked with Smith. All of them said the same. Smith has the world of talent but they aren't sure he's mentally focus to reach. I then asked a serious question. If Josh had a change in scenery, would he change? They all said yes either verbally or nodded their heads. Josh is too comfortable in Atlanta in more ways than being home but we don't have many sensible options either for him in terms of trades.

[coachx]

I spoke to his guys a few years back. Not his friends but guys who worked with Smith. All of them said the same. Smith has the world of talent but they aren't sure he's mentally focus to reach. I then asked a serious question. If Josh had a change in scenery, would he change? They all said yes either verbally or nodded their heads. Josh is too comfortable in Atlanta in more ways than being home but we don't have many sensible options either for him in terms of trades.

Every team, GM, and scout knows all about #5's warts. His trade value is no where near his talent value........that is all that has kept him in Atlanta in my opinion.

[JackB1]

Every team, GM, and scout knows all about #5's warts. His trade value is no where near his talent value........that is all that has kept him in Atlanta in my opinion.

Agree. If he was such a valuable commodity, some team would have made us an offer we couldn't refuse. Every team out there knew we were shopping for a PG and a Big.

Smith's low BB IQ is much more well known now that the Hawks have been on many nat'l televised games and in the playoffs the last several seasons. Our only hope now

is getting a coach in here that will be tough on him and force him to play as he should. Drew is proving softer than Woody, but that shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

[bonethugz]

Our only hope now

is getting a coach in here that will be tough on him and force him to play as he should. Drew is proving softer than Woody, but that shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

well, too late. avery johnson already hired

[Joker]

Every team, GM, and scout knows all about #5's warts. His trade value is no where near his talent value........that is all that has kept him in Atlanta in my opinion.

Many teams value Smith but many teams want to win a deal. They want a discounted trade. The offers I've heard which was before Hinrich and legit talk for a PG came was that Atlanta wants to improve after the trade. Meaning, they would want an upgrade for Smith. Like a Bogut or Rondo. Clearly no team would do that as those teams value their player too. The only way I see Smith getting traded is a team looking to move a star like CP3 for reason that they can't get an exp done. I can't even see a team being interesting in taking Smith, Zaza, and Marvin together for exp if they even have them.

But yes, some GM's don't value Smith. Denver GM wasn't interested. Detroit GM was trolling hard from what I got. But their are a lot of suitors for Smith but nothing that would move the needle for us.

I seen trade ideas for Al Jefferson but I haven't heard Utah looking to move anyone especially their best player. They have two top 10 lotto picks in the upcoming draft. Then again, Utah is discrete like Atlanta, if I didn't know anyone, I wouldn't know nothing and even then, I don't get a lot of potential info. I will say this, I am not optimistic Smith is getting traded. With or without new ownership. I think they will go another year with this core and try to make moves as the season continues like MJ and the Bobcats did. Make inquires for stars or upgrades but eventually trade players for cap space and picks but Milwaukee could be looking to do the same so Smith could be traded for Bogut if both teams fail at landing CP3 or Dwight. For us Hawks fan, the off-season will be telling. We could make a big slash. Will we resign Jamal and I agree with one other poster. It's not likely we will get much from a SnT for Jamal outside of what we got for Josh Childress. That's why Atlanta might be really serious about resigning him. I personally think they need him a lot. As they are currently setup or even after a blockbuster move. It's unlikely that we can get rid of all these contracts for exp. Even Joe contract would be hard for trade for an exp and why would any key FA come without Joe. Teams and coaches respect Joe more than anyone else on our team, including Al. Joe is the perfect fit in many coaches eyes, he can play in any system or any role and he's highly effective. There is a reason why Lebron wanted to play with Joe. Rose called Joe. Joe is the perfect Robin.

[Kimsey]

All ado about nothing.