Joe is not overpaid BY ATLANTA...

[Diesel]

How easy has it been in our history to get a player with JJ's abilities. A lot of you guys say Joe is overpaid and you use the metric of other teams, but look over our team's history. Honestly consider this city... I can recalled us being played by every free agent that looked our way except Joe Johnson. I mean, I remember Rick Fox. I remember Ced Ceballos. I remember Erica Dampiere. I remember Eddie Johnson. I remember Tracy McGrady. I remember KMart. Recently, I remember Shaq.

When you're talking about Free Agents, who was our big free agent acquisition???

Let me help you...

We traded for Nique, Smitty, Shareef, Deke, Mookie, Laettner, Crawford, and Joe Johnson.

We drafted JT, Augmon, Horf, Smoove, and Teague.

When we see how god awful our Free agency acquisitions have been , we have to say that NOBODY wants to play in Atlanta.

So until somebody comes up with a stat that judges the team likability.. it's worthless... as are the people who criticize us for overpaying Joe. You do what you have to do.

[Guest]

We didn't trade for Deke, he signed as a FA here.

[HawkItus]

To add on to that, let's put Joe in the frame of reference to other Hawks players. When you compare Joe to the best Hawks to suit up, he is in the Top 5 of all time.

[MVP23]

To add on to that, let's put Joe in the frame of reference to other Hawks players. When you compare Joe to the best Hawks to suit up, he is in the Top 5 of all time.

And Jake Delhomme has been the best Panther QB ever....so what?

[terrell]

We didn't trade for Deke, he signed as a FA here.

And I'd take Deke over Joe anyday. Josh/Horf/Deke frontcourt. lol Edited March 29, 2011 by terrell

[AHF]

How easy has it been in our history to get a player with JJ's abilities. A lot of you guys say Joe is overpaid and you use the metric of other teams, but look over our team's history. Honestly consider this city... I can recalled us being played by every free agent that looked our way except Joe Johnson. I mean, I remember Rick Fox. I remember Ced Ceballos. I remember Erica Dampiere. I remember Eddie Johnson. I remember Tracy McGrady. I remember KMart. Recently, I remember Shaq.

When you're talking about Free Agents, who was our big free agent acquisition???

Let me help you...

We traded for Nique, Smitty, Shareef, Deke, Mookie, Laettner, Crawford, and Joe Johnson.

We drafted JT, Augmon, Horf, Smoove, and Teague.

When we see how god awful our Free agency acquisitions have been , we have to say that NOBODY wants to play in Atlanta.

So until somebody comes up with a stat that judges the team likability.. it's worthless... as are the people who criticize us for overpaying Joe. You do what you have to do.

The Hawks didn't trade for Dikembe. Mutombo was a free agent signing (and probably our best ever in Atlanta).

[APE]

Incase you didn't know, Kembe wasn't traded for. He was a FA.

[HawkItus]

And Jake Delhomme has been the best Panther QB ever....so what?

And they payed him a lot of money to be the best Panther QB ever. Cost of business.

[Diesel]

We didn't trade for Deke, he signed as a FA here.

OK... Small technicality. We traded Long and Augmon to make room to get Deke. But you're right, he did sign here. 5 years 55 MILLION which, at the time, some thought we overpaid to get a C who did not have a strong offensive game.

To add on to that, let's put Joe in the frame of reference to other Hawks players. When you compare Joe to the best Hawks to suit up, he is in the Top 5 of all time.

Yep...

1. Petit

2. Nique

3. Deke

4. Joe

5. Smitty

And Joe doesn't have nearly the balanced cast and coaching that these other guys had.

Nique had Doc Rivers, Tree Rollins (and one time Moses and Theus.)>

Deke had Mookie, and Smitty.

And I'd take Deke over Joe anyday. Josh/Horf/Deke frontcourt. lol

Who wouldn't. That's not the argument. Not even a thought in the argument. The point is that NO FA has wanted to play in Atlanta (without being overpaid) since the freakin 80s.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Diesel

[thecampster]

OK... Small technicality. We traded Long and Augmon to make room to get Deke. But you're right, he did sign here. 5 years 55 MILLION which, at the time, some thought we overpaid to get a C who did not have a strong offensive game.

Yep...

1. Petit

2. Nique

3. Deke

4. Joe

5. Smitty

And Joe doesn't have nearly the balanced cast and coaching that these other guys had.

Nique had Doc Rivers, Tree Rollins (and one time Moses and Theus.)>

Deke had Mookie, and Smitty.

Who wouldn't. That's not the argument. Not even a thought in the argument. The point is that NO FA has wanted to play in Atlanta (without being overpaid) since the freakin 80s.

Volume shooting does not make someone top 5. He's not even currently performing top 2 on this team.

[benhillboy]

You do what you have to do.

Uh oh, he said it, I'm gonna explode. 10, 9, 8...

I understand you liking Joe. Feeling we should've signed him back? OK. But HAVING to re-sign him? I just can't sympathize in any form or fashion. It isn't like we'd be detracted if we didn't. Worst case scenario, Jamal starts, we flesh out the bench a little more, have unlimited funds for free agents who would come here, and fail to make the playoffs. Is that much worse than where we are now? One of the worst good teams in NBA history judging by lopsided blowouts? And how exactly does your "no one wants to come here" argument work when you've said in the past Joe could justify his salary if surrounded by better players and coaches? A lot if things factor in, but you and I cant disagree with the facts: we're gonna lose more games than last year, Joe's game has descended, statistically anyway, opposing players who electrify the crowd get MVP chants, and our attendance is still abysmal. I agree it's a team game far more than individual, but when you pay a guy the max at a prime age, NONE of these things should occur. This team peaked last year. I agree to some extent that big-name free agents simply don't want to play for this franchise (nothing to do with the city.) But why not try something different with such a large lump sum of money rather than toil in mediocrity and disrespect? I always thought that winning it all was the main goal. If there's no chance, destroy and rebuild.

So tell me, D. You're pretty good with contracts and available players etc. If we hadn't re-signed Joe, what type of team would we have, what type of draft picks would we acquire from being a lesser team, salary cap situation, long-term outlook, etc. Would we be considerably further from the Big Goal than we are now? I say a resounding "No."

[AHF]

The point is that NO FA has wanted to play in Atlanta (without being overpaid) since the freakin 80s.

Mutombo wasn't overpaid and was in the mid-late 90's. Joe wanted desperately to sign in Atlanta and would have signed here without a trade had he been an UFA instead of a RFA. I'm not saying Atlanta is the premier FA destination - not by a long shot - but we have attracted some All-Star FAs to want to play in Atlanta.

Edited March 29, 2011 by AHF

[terrell]

OK... Small technicality. We traded Long and Augmon to make room to get Deke. But you're right, he did sign here. 5 years 55 MILLION which, at the time, some thought we overpaid to get a C who did not have a strong offensive game.

Yep...

1. Petit

2. Nique

3. Deke

4. Joe

5. Smitty

And Joe doesn't have nearly the balanced cast and coaching that these other guys had.

Nique had Doc Rivers, Tree Rollins (and one time Moses and Theus.)>

Deke had Mookie, and Smitty.

Who wouldn't. That's not the argument. Not even a thought in the argument. The point is that NO FA has wanted to play in Atlanta (without being overpaid) since the freakin 80s.

EVERY one of my friends(all of whom are BIG Hawks fans) were ecstatic when we signed Deke. Hell everybody I know was ecstatic. Cant say the same about Joe. Most of my friends hated to give up all of those draft picks for Joe. And dont make me tell you what most people thought about that extension. Sure you already know. Deke = better FA than Joe. And having to only give up scrubs instead of 1st rdrs makes it clear cut. Case closed. You lose. lol Edited March 29, 2011 by terrell

[terrell]

OK... Small technicality. We traded Long and Augmon to make room to get Deke. But you're right, he did sign here. 5 years 55 MILLION which, at the time, some thought we overpaid to get a C who did not have a strong offensive game.

Yep...

1. Petit

2. Nique

3. Deke

4. Joe

5. Smitty

And Joe doesn't have nearly the balanced cast and coaching that these other guys had.

Nique had Doc Rivers, Tree Rollins (and one time Moses and Theus.)>

Deke had Mookie, and Smitty.

Who wouldn't. That's not the argument. Not even a thought in the argument. The point is that NO FA has wanted to play in Atlanta (without being overpaid) since the freakin 80s.

Wtf? ALL fa's wanna get paid. And they usually go to the team that's paying the most $. U think Joe woulda stayed if he was offered more $ to play elsewhere? Dont think so. The guy was actually booed off the court in his final game last year, and still signed here. What does that tell you? U think he stayed because of his love for the city and fans, or for the love of $$$$? Edited March 29, 2011 by terrell

[Joker]

The Hawks didn't trade for Dikembe. Mutombo was a free agent signing (and probably our best ever in Atlanta).

Joe and Deke overall impact is the same. Both are All Star types. Joe is an all around elite Robin and Deke is one of the best defensive specialist in NBA history. Both could only get us so far, both need to play with a superstar. I don't see the difference.

[99PROBL3MS]

EVERY one of my friends(all of whom are BIG Hawks fans) were ecstatic when we signed Deke. Hell everybody I know was ecstatic. Cant say the same about Joe. Most of my friends hated to give up all of those draft picks for Joe. And dont make me tell you what most people thought about that extension. Sure you already know. Deke = better FA than Joe. And having to only give up scrubs instead of 1st rdrs makes it clear cut. Case closed. You lose. lol

Funny and ironic that you say that. Phoenix ended up getting Diaw and Raja Bell out off that trade/picks. PHO had the best record in the NBA Joe's last year and there is no telling how salty they could have been with Nash, Joe, and Amare. We got the better end of that deal.

[MVP23]

And they payed him a lot of money to be the best Panther QB ever. Cost of business.

Yeah and look what happened to Jake after that. Saying Joe is top 5 only means this team has sucked for the better part of 40 years, not that Joe is anything special.

[Bawse]

Uh oh, he said it, I'm gonna explode. 10, 9, 8...

I understand you liking Joe. Feeling we should've signed him back? OK. But HAVING to re-sign him? I just can't sympathize in any form or fashion. It isn't like we'd be detracted if we didn't. Worst case scenario, Jamal starts, we flesh out the bench a little more, have unlimited funds for free agents who would come here, and fail to make the playoffs. Is that much worse than where we are now? One of the worst good teams in NBA history judging by lopsided blowouts? And how exactly does your "no one wants to come here" argument work when you've said in the past Joe could justify his salary if surrounded by better players and coaches? A lot if things factor in, but you and I cant disagree with the facts: we're gonna lose more games than last year, Joe's game has descended, statistically anyway, opposing players who electrify the crowd get MVP chants, and our attendance is still abysmal. I agree it's a team game far more than individual, but when you pay a guy the max at a prime age, NONE of these things should occur. This team peaked last year. I agree to some extent that big-name free agents simply don't want to play for this franchise (nothing to do with the city.) But why not try something different with such a large lump sum of money rather than toil in mediocrity and disrespect? I always thought that winning it all was the main goal. If there's no chance, destroy and rebuild.

So tell me, D. You're pretty good with contracts and available players etc. If we hadn't re-signed Joe, what type of team would we have, what type of draft picks would we acquire from being a lesser team, salary cap situation, long-term outlook, etc. Would we be considerably further from the Big Goal than we are now? I say a resounding "No."

Pretty odd you got negged multiple times for this post, this is pretty much spot on. The simple fact is that Joe is not a max player. Never has been. He did not deserve the 126mill, and because we chose to resign him, we cannot improve our team without either

1. Moving him in some fashion.

or

2. Moving either Horf and/or Smoove for a legitimate superstar.

18PPG for a Joe Johnson. Crawford nearly averaged this last season off the bench with less playing time. Give me a break. There's no way anyone can defend the horrendous contract of Joe Johnson, not with the type of play he is giving us. No way, no how.

Edited March 29, 2011 by Boss

[Sothron]

The problem with Joe's deal is people with no understanding of the salary cap think we could have lowballed Joe and if he didn't sign we could have used a max deal to sign someone else. It doesn't work that way. Now do I think we should have given Joe the Josh Smith/Chill treatment and said "Go find someone to give you a max deal and we'll counter with a hometown max deal"? Absolutely. The whole "We will give Joe the max deal on day ONE" treatment was poorly thought out. Of course he'd take the absolute max to stay in Atlanta. What was in serious doubt was rather someone would pay him a max deal as a free agent. That is what we should have done.

[APE]

And Jake Delhomme has been the best Panther QB ever....so what?

Please don't insult Jake like that. Atleast he lead his team to meaningful games.