Which one is it?

[Wurider05]

I have been thinking about this Hawks team and what exactly is our problem. I am not talking about the last 2 losses but rather our team overall. I honestly think that we have the talent to compete with any team in the league but we don't the effort. Everyone on this team (even AL) seems so nonchalant. No one seems to really want to win or care about winning. The players demeanor is damn near identical in interviews after wins or losses. We lack a consistent effort and I place that surely on the coaching. Shooting jumpers instead of driving to the basket shows you the kind of effort this team has. Its easier to chuck a jumper than to get in the paint. Hell seems like Marvin is the only one trying to drive to the basket with some kind of consistency and that isn't saying much. Instead of " we are going to go out and win tonight" being the motto of the team the motto is "we are going to go out and see what happens". No drive. NO heart. No effort. NO fire. Losing doesn't seem to bother these dudes.

Talent or Effort? What is our problem?

[DJlaysitup]

....Everyone on this team (even AL) seems so nonchalant. No one seems to really want to win or care about winning...

While I agree with your overall point...I would point out that Al Horford scored 21 points tonight (10 of 15 shooting) and had 10 rebounds and two blocks in 28 minutes.

...all while few plays were set up for him to score. :kickcan:

[CBAreject]

No one seems to really want to win or care about winning....Shooting jumpers instead of driving to the basket shows you the kind of effort this team has.

Talent or Effort? What is our problem?

I've been thinking about this problem for years, and not just with the Hawks, but all basketball teams. It is my belief that basketball players, in spite of their immense talents, rarely understand what constitutes winning basketball. I believe most players don't really understand the intricacies of shot selection, positioning to prevent transition baskets, and the value of getting fouled. It seems most of the thinking is "I'm open, so I should take the shot". They think that if they miss, they just got unlucky that shots "weren't droppin". If coach starts riding them, they think he doesn't understand that "sometimes it's just not droppin". Overall, they seem to think that being a good player is about scoring the most points and looking good doing it. People who say otherwise are probably jealous or stuck on old-school basketball. I think most players really want to win, but they don't understand how offensive efficiency translates into wins.

I've grown to believe this because most coaches do seem to understand winning basketball, but few teams attempt to play it. It is a rare coach who is able to motivate his team to play winning ball or at least efficient ball, even if they lack the talent to really win. It is a rare player who truly gets it and is able to lead by example. I think Larry Drew, while not a visionary, has some decent ideas for improving offensive efficiency, but after 90 or so games (including pre-season), it is clear that he can't get his players to buy in to them.

Edited April 10, 2011 by CBAreject

[Joker]

I've been thinking about this problem for years, and not just with the Hawks, but all basketball teams. It is my belief that basketball players, in spite of their immense talents, rarely understand what constitutes winning basketball. I believe most players don't really understand the intricacies of shot selection, positioning to prevent transition baskets, and the value of getting fouled. It seems most of the thinking is "I'm open, so I should take the shot". They think that if they miss, they just got unlucky that shots "weren't droppin". If coach starts riding them, they think he doesn't understand that "sometimes it's just not droppin". Overall, they seem to think that being a good player is about scoring the most points and looking good doing it. People who say otherwise are probably jealous or stuck on old-school basketball. I think most players really want to win, but they don't understand how offensive efficiency translates into wins.

I've grown to believe this because most coaches do seem to understand winning basketball, but few teams attempt to play it. It is a rare coach who is able to motivate his team to play winning ball or at least efficient ball, even if they lack the talent to really win. It is a rare player who truly gets it and is able to lead by example. I think Larry Drew, while not a visionary, has some decent ideas for improving offensive efficiency, but after 90 or so games (including pre-season), it is clear that he can't get his players to buy in to them.

I remember how bad people wanted Doc Rivers to never coach again till he got the Big 3. You give Joe and Al, CP3 and this is a completely different team. Much higher bbiq and roles that actually fit them. Add Okafor to the mix and everyone fits their role.

You are right about your post. A lot of players just don't know. It's part of the reason the NBA wants players to go to college. Because even though the ones who are going to be great can leave out of HS, they need to understand the game first. Guys like Josh Smith don't have a clue. They can run plays, know where they are suppose to be as well as everyone else but don't not understand the value of every possession counting. It's a major problem in the NBA. The only players who understand this on the Hawks are Joe and Al. One who doesn't really have the ability to draw fouls and the other can't create his own shot to be a serious threat unless someone creates for him. Hinrich doesn't have the ability to draw fouls often. Teague, Jamal, Joshua, and Marvin have no clue. Marvin and Zaza draw fouls on pure clumsiness and Zaza flops a lot.

Great post.