Would you really want Smoove and Howard on the same team?

[Wurider05]

I say no. These guys are weak minded individuals. It's funny how easy it is to get into Howard's mind and SMoove is just Smoove. They have all the physical tools you can imagine but mentally/emotionally they are lacking.

[Frenzy]

Yes, easily lol

[MaceCase]

My issue with that lineup has zero to do with their mental statuses I just know how offensively inefficient they are. The thing about Dwight was that when paired with a traditional big in the frontcourt he was just going on to lead the league in turnovers and as evidenced in this series where he has 1 assist to about 30 turnovers it shows that he is no great shakes in the post outside of his massive physicality. Bring a hard enough trap or smart enough trap and Dwight will make the wrong read or poor pass if at all everytime. This is why they spent 100 million on Rashard and have built their entire offense around just surrounding him with shooters because he needs all the space in the world to operate and not be faced with additional defenders to be effective. He just lacks the offensive IQ thus why their offense has been made so ridiculously easy for him to make the easy read which is hit the wide open shooter or get it out to the first available guy and they will make the right read for him. Josh has proved yet again that he is simply not a good enough or consistent enough shooter to pair with Dwight but the blame for them being a bad duo is more on Dwight though. If he was more capable and Josh just a slight uptick better at spacing the floor then it could work but Dwight is a guy you have to build a specific team out of in order to get the best out of him.

[DrReality]

Trade Smoove to get him. Is there anyone we wouldn't part with?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Are you kidding ?

We would have the sickest front court ever. It would be a block party every night, not to mention all the altered shots and shots just not attempted.

We would have the #1 defense in the entire league potentially especially if Hinrich has a few years left on the perimeter.

And speaking of the perimeter all the open shots our perimeter players would have with all the defense collapsing on Howard and Josh down low.

It basically would be

The Rest of the League :sarcastichand:

Edited April 26, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[GameTime]

My issue with that lineup has zero to do with their mental statuses I just know how offensively inefficient they are. The thing about Dwight was that when paired with a traditional big in the frontcourt he was just going on to lead the league in turnovers and as evidenced in this series where he has 1 assist to about 30 turnovers it shows that he is no great shakes in the post outside of his massive physicality. Bring a hard enough trap or smart enough trap and Dwight will make the wrong read or poor pass if at all everytime. This is why they spent 100 million on Rashard and have built their entire offense around just surrounding him with shooters because he needs all the space in the world to operate and not be faced with additional defenders to be effective. He just lacks the offensive IQ thus why their offense has been made so ridiculously easy for him to make the easy read which is hit the wide open shooter or get it out to the first available guy and they will make the right read for him. Josh has proved yet again that he is simply not a good enough or consistent enough shooter to pair with Dwight but the blame for them being a bad duo is more on Dwight though. If he was more capable and Josh just a slight uptick better at spacing the floor then it could work but Dwight is a guy you have to build a specific team out of in order to get the best out of him.

Dwight and Smoove's defensive potential outweighs Dwight and Horf's offensive potential. No one would be able to attack the rim. period.

[Guest]

uuuh....yeah.

Josh can be the 3-pt shooter when D12 gets doubled.... :dancer:

Just kidding, but if we can get D12 why the hell not. Dwight's attitude is probably a reflection of his coach "The Master of Panic Stan". With a different coach, different mind set. Also, no need to build the team around Dwight with just shooters, let him focus on defense and rebounding, his offense will take care of itself.

Edited April 26, 2011 by jaybird

[BusBoyIsBack]

Dwight and Smoove's defensive potential outweighs Dwight and Horf's offensive potential. No one would be able to attack the rim. period.

Not to mention the chemistry that those two would probably put in to develop. Dwight Howard may not be the best passing big man ever but you better believe he and Smoove would find a way to set each other up.

And some of the easy dunks Smoove could have with the PF leaving to help on Dwight would be a thing of beauty.

But defensively is where that duo is at, and that's the side of the ball that wins championships

Just think how dominant Dwight is as a defender that even with pretend PFs next to him and mediocre perimeter defenders the Magic still have an elite defense

And Josh Smith is a guy who's such an effective weakside defender that we can get away with being undersized with Horford

If those two combined forces, there isn't a team in the league without a ton of help from officials that would fair well in the paint

Edited April 26, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[MaceCase]

Dwight and Smoove's defensive potential outweighs Dwight and Horf's offensive potential. No one would be able to attack the rim. period.

Now I wonder to myself,

WHERE IN THE WORLD DID I MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT HORF?

Perhaps I implied it but Bass has always been one of the deadliest midrange shooters in the league yet he is not having the same effect that Shard or even Ryan Anderson has. And whatever defensive potential that is perceived by that duo creating is overrated, Josh has been here a million years and we've never cracked top ten. Dwight has absolute garbage defenders around him and gets his team in the top 5 for the past 5 years. Smoove is essentially Mickael Pietrus with Dwight, he's not creating some mythical transcendent defensive duo and then what does that all mean when you have two of the biggest offensively flawed players in the L?

[BusBoyIsBack]

Now I wonder to myself,

WHERE IN THE WORLD DID I MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT HORF?

Perhaps I implied it but Bass has always been one of the deadliest midrange shooters in the league yet he is not having the same effect that Shard or even Ryan Anderson has. And whatever defensive potential that is perceived by that duo creating is overrated, Josh has been here a million years and we've never cracked top ten. Dwight has absolute garbage defenders around him and gets his team in the top 5 for the past 5 years. Smoove is essentially Mickael Pietrus with Dwight, he's not creating some mythical transcendent defensive duo and then what does that all mean when you have two of the biggest offensively flawed players in the L?

I think you are making the point for the duo. If Magic defense is elite with Howard and nothing else, just how dominant of a post defense could one potentially have if they add the best straight up defender in the league with arguably the best weakside shot blocker in the league?

The Hawks defense could be once in a generation good.

As far as our personal defense, don't know if you got the memo but we were 9th in the league this year in PPG defensively.

And to compare Mikael Pietrus defense to Smoove's is laughable just like it is to call Dwight Howard offensively flawed. Have you seen the numbers he's putting up this post-season?

Dont blame him because his cast is a joke, which wouldn't be the case in Atlanta even if we got rid of one of our 3 best players to get him

Edited April 26, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[MaceCase]

I think you are making the point for the duo. If Magic defense is elite with Howard and nothing else, just how dominant of a post defense could one potentially have if they add the best straight up defender in the league with arguably the best weakside shot blocker in the league?

The Hawks defense could be once in a generation good.

As far as our personal defense, don't know if you got the memo but we were 9th in the league this year in PPG

No what I'm saying is that Smoove's D is vastly overrated and he won't add anything to Dwight's presence. Smoove's best asset is helpside D so how exactly does that help another player whose best asset is helpside D? It's like trying to pour more water into an already full cup. I just take it that guys don't watch much NBA when they make blanket statements based on potential. Blocks =/= Defense. What would make them an unseen duo is if Josh was elite at post and perimeter man defense like a KG, NOW you have something of a versatile defense. A guy who could lock his man down and just have Dwight be the safety net, Josh isn't that though so how does that overcome the fact that Josh was one of the most offensively inefficient players in the league and Dwight can't operate without super spacing? Forget it though, I'll take my logic elsewhere. Dream away.

BTW

Dwight is not the best "straight up" defender he is the definition of a help defender.

You should check the memo that PPG is the poorest measure of defensive and offensive efficiency.

And yes, Having a big that get's as many touches as Dwight be a career 1.5 assist a game passer in an offense geared around him drawing doubles and passing to shooters goes towards saying a lot.

Edited April 26, 2011 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[BusBoyIsBack]

No what I'm saying is that Smoove's D is vastly overrated and he won't add anything to Dwight's presence. Smoove's best asset is helpside D so how exactly does that help another player whose best asset is helpside D? It's like trying to pour more water into an already full cup. I just take it that guys don't watch much NBA when they make blanket statements based on potential. Blocks =/= Defense. What would make them an unseen duo is if Josh was elite at post and perimeter man defense like a KG, NOW you have something of a versatile defense. A guy who could lock his man down and just have Dwight be the safety net, Josh isn't that though so how does that overcome the fact that Josh was one of the most offensively inefficient players in the league and Dwight operate without super spacing? Forget it though, I'll take my logic elsewhere. Dream away.

Because you could literally have the entire painted area on lockdown potentially. Which basically means the opposition would be forced even more into low percentage and contested shots. Dwight Howard is more than just a "helpside" defender which is why he well deserves to win 3 straight DPOTY awards. Dwight Howard can play any Center in this watered down center era straight up and contain them with the exception of a healthy Yao.

Offensively Dwight Howard would open up driving lanes from Josh Smith to get weakside layups and dunks. And Smoove is a good enough passer to find wide open guys as the opposing defense tries to compensate for sagging the defense towards Howard and tries to adjust by going to Smoove.

Whatever Josh Smith lacks as a shooter, you could make up with 3 other perimeter players.

Edited April 26, 2011 by BusBoyIsBack

[MaceCase]

Because you could literally have the entire painted area on lockdown potentially. Which basically means the opposition would be forced even more into low percentage and contested shots. Dwight Howard is more than just a "helpside" defender which is why he well deserves to win 3 straight DPOTY awards. Dwight Howard can play any Center in this watered down center era straight up and contain them with the exception of a healthy Yao.

Offensively Dwight Howard would open up driving lanes from Josh Smith to get weakside layups and dunks. And Smoove is a good enough passer to find wide open guys as the opposing defense tries to compensate for sagging the defense towards Howard and tries to adjust by going to Smoove.

Whatever Josh Smith lacks as a shooter, you could make up with 3 other perimeter players.

Wow, you just don't get it. Dwight by himself locks down the entire painted area. He is a defensive anchor which would make him the very definition of a help defender because he eliminates every mistake his teammates make and they funnel the opposition into him. Josh doesn't change this dynamic because his flaws defensively just require Dwight to help him also. Dwight struggles with man on man post defense with any offensively skilled big from Sheed to Pau to Yao to Bynum even but those guys are so far and few between that he doesn't need someone to help him from the helpside often. Josh's talent on offense allows him to be a passer FROM the post, I wonder, who else exclusively occupies the post? And to think that Dwight will just draw doubles and hit Josh on the cut.......when the f*** have you ever seen Josh cut yet alone Dwight hit a cutter to the rim? This is what I'm talking about Dwight, he can't pass so he can't help Josh and Josh can't shoot so he can't help Dwight. Simple, easy, but you and others want to envision some historical defense out of nowhere to compensate for that.

You don't go through the trouble of building a contender by surrounding a big with great shooters just to go ahead and say you think your idea would work better and you don't go through a series where you say you are just going to single cover a guy and man the shooters and have that work without it telling you something. Why does the single cover strategy not work on Duncan or Shaq or Pau? Because all of those guys are prodigious passing bigmen and can easily overcome such a simple strategy by hitting the right man in addition to them not needing 4 shooters around them at all times.

Edited April 26, 2011 by CrawfulToCrawesome

[HawksFan87]

If Smoove is gone u can forget about Dwight coming here lol. But Smoove & Dwight >>> Al & Dwight ..

[RedDawg#8]

if Dwight were on our team, our ballhog gaurds would still never feed him the ball in good spots like they do now. They'd jus dribble around and shoot J's and Dwight would have to rely on rebounds alone to touch the ball. So in effect his offensive deficencies don't matter

[Atlantaholic]

Dwight Howard and Lebron James are the best players in the NBA. It's not even close imho. This guy who we supposedly are throwing off his game is putting up the best numbers out of anyone in the NBA not named Paul right now. I know everyone is saying Rose is the mvp this season, but that's just a result of Chicago's record and media hype. Rose is fantastic, don't get me wrong, and he is certainly a spectacular player to watch which makes it understandable that people would overrate his impact... but Howard is just flat out dominant at BOTH ends of the floor, easily more so than Rose. Lebron is probably better than both of these guys, as much as I hate to admit it because he is such an insanely massive douche, but as long as he has to share the rock with Wade he will always be a more limited version of himself.

So, to sum it up. Howard is probably the best player in the NBA right now... Lowest you could put the dude is top-4, seriously there is absolutely no freaking way you can name 4 better players than him. Your post is insane.

[Supporter]

Is this some kind of joke, Dwight Howard on any team will be a contender

[Atlantaholic]

Now I wonder to myself,

WHERE IN THE WORLD DID I MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT HORF?

Perhaps I implied it but Bass has always been one of the deadliest midrange shooters in the league yet he is not having the same effect that Shard or even Ryan Anderson has. And whatever defensive potential that is perceived by that duo creating is overrated, Josh has been here a million years and we've never cracked top ten. Dwight has absolute garbage defenders around him and gets his team in the top 5 for the past 5 years. Smoove is essentially Mickael Pietrus with Dwight, he's not creating some mythical transcendent defensive duo and then what does that all mean when you have two of the biggest offensively flawed players in the L?

Dwight Howard has a better career TS% than anyone currently on the Hawks, and probably better than anyone in Atlanta Hawks history. For reference, he blows the hell out of Bob Pettit's and Dominique Wilkins TS%. So I'm not sure how you can call Howard the most offensively flawed player in the NBA. Is that some sort of joke comment? The guy is putting up 33 points against us, if it weren't for him this Orlando team would have won 14 games, seriously. I understand he turns the ball over but you do understand that 33 points on an absolutely ridiculous out of this universe 70% TS% outweighs turnovers, yes? At least it merits him not being mentioned one of the most flawed offensive players in the league... we are talking about a dude who has freaking Hedo Turkoglu and Gilbert Arenas as teamates after all. Seriously, put one decent marginal star on that team along with Dwight and we have no shot at taking this team further than game 5. We have played one against five this whole series and have won only one game convincingly. Dwight and Josh Powell would be a deadly frontcourt for chrisakes. Implying that Josh Smith and Dwight wouldn't work is ridiculous. And yes, having two shotblockers is better than having one. Of course it is. Maybe it wouldn't be the best defensive frontcourt in the history of the NBA but it would be better than Josh + Horford.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Atlantaholic

[Colin]

Alright, this argument is going to become more intense than I am ready for, so I will stay out of it for the time being, but I do have to add my opinion, at least a little bit.

I don't want Dwight on this team. I don't like the type of basketball he plays. Sure, he is a great physical specimen (no rainbow) and is strong enough to get great position that leads to stellar scoring. BUT, he is terrible at passing out of pressure, can't score from outside 6 feet, complains a lot, needs work on his free throws, and gets bothered by big bodies. True, there aren't many bodies big enough in the league to bother him, but it is possible, and when he is off, and he is your star player, your offense will be HURTING. He is a great defensive player, but if he gets in foul trouble, you'll be hurting just as much (sure, that is true for all players, but his propensity for fouls, ESPECIALLY on an Atlanta team where he won't get as much preferential treatment as he does now, could hurt us A LOT). I don't want out best player only able to score when he is right by the basket, not to mention you can't let him touch the ball too often in clutch time or they will continue to put him on the line....

The fact of the matter is, Dwight Howard is a great basketball player, but not one that I want to build my team around. I would rather give up much less value, for a defensive minded center/big body in the middle. This could easily just be my dislike for the whiner, but who knows. I don't want Dwight Howard on the Hawks.

[dakast]

I'd rather have Horford and Howard on the same team.