OK, it's time we have the conversation...

[Diesel]

While Al is so loved he should be moved for what's needed and a pick. He is good and it may never be "very" good. When you witness him shrink you realize he is not what you thought he was. He has regressed to an "Euro" type big, in love with the 18ft jumper.

With Josh we have extreme athletic talent and heart. It is what separates the two.

Josh is the keeper without a doubt.

I would rather that we didn't have to choose because Al could be the EuroBig... without the longball. However, he still gathers rebounds. I think if you match him with a good C.. not serviceable, but good.. he would be better than he is now. I agree with what you have said about Josh...with the addition that he is limited by his will and BBIQ. If he ever took to good coaching and just went out and "Do" without thinking, he'd be awesome.

[Joker]

No. It's the other way around. Horf is not going to be more atheletic. Horf is already telling you that he has to transition to PF because he can't continue to play physical. Horf is a finesse PF (in mentality) and the extent of his game is going to be pick and pop and average to above average defense. Horf is not a great passer and doesn't seem to be looking to improve that. Horf is not a great ball handler. Horf is a good rebounder but him shying away from physical play will limit that. In short, Horf will never be Taj Gibson. He will by just like Boozer without the inside play. Now, that could be good but just like Boozer, he will be somewhere seemingly overpaid because he's not the big brute inside.

Josh on the other hand is not topped out. IN the Chicago series, he started doing something that he hasn't done with consistency... post moves. I agree that there is a time when Josh's athletic ability will wane. However, he's 25-26... He has at least 4 more years before that hits. And if he stays in shape, it might not hit so hard.

Horford is very athletic, he's not Smith but Smith is likely in the top 5 of athletes in the NBA and when he was in shape, he might have been one of the best jumping guys in the NBA's history. Horford been a finesse PnR PF who gets tough at times but usually he isn't. PnP, PnR, screeners, there is a lot of ways to score by smart movement, ask Reggie Miller who can't create his own shot and NEVER was a post player who played with a PnR PG like Malone did with Stockton. His defense is very good. WTF are you talking about on that. That's like saying, Josh Smith defensive instincts suck when it's quite the opposite. Horf is a good passer out of the post. The Hawks are probably one of the best passing teams in the NBA. Horford is an extension of that. Horford is a good enough ball handler to go coast to coast and take you off the dribble if your late on assignments. He can't take you off otherwise and can be bounced out of position while posting up causing him to lose control of the ball. That seems to happen to every Hawk not named Joe. This is silly as hell. Diesel, wtf are you talking about. He battles, he's a very good rebounder which is why he gets almost 10 a game battling for the boards on offense by himself at many times, shut up if your going make up non-sense. You really say a lot of mindless stuff and this post is a prime example.

Edited May 19, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[Yeti]

Josh Smith is a SF so I can't dive into this convo with you.

PG Teague

SG

SF Josh

PF Al

C

Josh Smith was very effective against Deng if you did not notice and Deng gets a lot of credit for D. Deng did a good job on Joe but could really do nothing with Josh when Josh wanted to post him. If we want any chance of ever having a consistent post game Josh is a SF and Al is a PF.

I cringe at the thought of putting Josh in a position where he is EXPECTED to shoot long jumpers. I love the guy - he's emotional, firey, and incredibly athletic. I love watching him go to the basket and play defense. But he has his little hissy-fits and is unprofessional at times. And he keeps shooting 3's although everyone is the building is yelling "NO !!!". He just doesn't seem too bright. He hasn't done the things he needed to do to become a better pro. So I'll easily take Al if forced to make a pick, but I'd rather keep both.

I hate to say this but ... Diesel was right (choke, gag, ...) - the guy to leave really has to be Marvin. He never panned out. He's from a small HS in Washington, not from the Seattle area that generated a lot of good NBA players, went to college for one year where he played well but was never a starter, and then to the NBA. He never really learned the game and Woody couldn't teach a fish to swim, much less develop young talent. Marvin missed his window - he either needed to stay in school to get more experience or get drafted by someone who could work with him. He's too passive. He's just a nice role player now. Now it's time for a change, we really need a good small forward. ... But with no draft pick this year, our options are limited. Maybe putting Joe at 3 is the right idea. But the thought of using Josh to shoot outside is too scary for me.