Who you gonna pick.

[Diesel]

You have a pick in the nba Draft... throughout history. Who you gonna pick? (IN their prime)

[AHF]

For me:

Bird and Ray Allen are fairly easy choices for questions 1 and 2 for me;

Shaq over Hakeem is a tough call but Shaq in his prime took 3 teams to the NBA finals and won 4 championships so I will go his direction there since I think he absolutely dominated his competition in a way the others didn't; and

the 4th question is the toughest call of all for me and would vary depending on the other parts of the team but I went with Hardaway over Mookie by a hair based on his superior shooting.

[Diesel]

For me:

Bird and Ray Allen are fairly easy choices for questions 1 and 2 for me;

Shaq over Hakeem is a tough call but Shaq in his prime took 3 teams to the NBA finals and won 4 championships so I will go his direction there since I think he absolutely dominated his competition in a way the others didn't; and

the 4th question is the toughest call of all for me and would vary depending on the other parts of the team but I went with Hardaway over Mookie by a hair based on his superior shooting.

In all seriousness, no homerism, I don't see why Ray Allen over Joe or Alex English is an easy call?

here is their best seasons

[coachx]

In all seriousness, no homerism, I don't see why Ray Allen over Joe or Alex English is an easy call?

here is their best seasons

I remember English as a SF for the Nuggets who had the sweetest baseline jumper known to man kind. His mid range game was an art form. He played on some fun Doug Mo teams with Fat Leaver, Dan Issel, and 1 my favorite players of all time (Michael Adams)...............That being said, English was a SF so I had to vote Ray Allen.

There were many SFs of that era with a mid range game as their strength: Bird, English, Dantley, King, Aguire, Mullin...then Glen Robinson and Glen Rice came to carry the torch..........then mid range shooting SFs just dissapeard with the rule changes. With legal hand checks you had to be able to shoot in the 80s and 90s b/c it was so much harder to drive. Now a days there are no hand checks so we are left with a bunch of slashers who can't shoot that good.

I think the game has changed for the worst in that regard.

Edited May 24, 2011 by coachx

[coachx]

Shaq over Hakeem is a tough call but Shaq in his prime took 3 teams to the NBA finals and won 4 championships so I will go his direction there since I think he absolutely dominated his competition in a way the others didn't; and

This is the best debate and there is no wrong answer.

Shaq dominated everyone but 1 person. That was Hakeem.

I took Hakeem over Shaq. I will never forget watching Hakeem and Shaq go at it in the 1995 NBA Finals to win back to back Championships. Hakeem was the MVP the season before. David Robinson was named MVP that season after leading the Spurs to the #1 seed in the West. Hakeem showed Robinson that MVP trophy was still his and dominated him in the Western Conference Finals. Then Hakeem swept Shaq in 4 games and out scored Shaq in every game of the head to head match up.

In the 1994 NBA Finals Hakeem got the better of Ewing and the Knicks too. Look at the 94 Finals Stats where Hakeem held Ewing to 18.9 PPG, 36.4 FG%.

Both NBA Finals Hakeem won the best player of both teams was the center. The center position was the marquee matchup. It was truely the age of the big man. That is what made the 1994 and 1995 NBA Finals very unique. We may never see that again if the rules and officiating remain the same.

Hakeem played in the era of the big man and he showed he was better then all of them when they played head to head.........That makes him #1 to me but that is just my opinion.

Edited May 24, 2011 by coachx

[AHF]

This is the best debate and there is no wrong answer.

Shaq dominated everyone but 1 person. That was Hakeem.

I took Hakeem over Shaq. I will never forget watching Hakeem and Shaq go at it in the 1995 NBA Finals to win back to back Championships. Hakeem was the MVP the season before. David Robinson was named MVP that season after leading the Spurs to the #1 seed in the West. Hakeem showed Robinson that MVP trophy was still his and dominated him in the Western Conference Finals. Then Hakeem swept Shaq in 4 games and out scored Shaq in every game of the head to head match up.

In the 1994 NBA Finals Hakeem got the better of Ewing and the Knicks too. Look at the 94 Finals Stats where Hakeem held Ewing to 18.9 PPG, 36.4 FG%.

Both NBA Finals Hakeem won the best player of both teams was the center. The center position was the marquee matchup. It was truely the age of the big man. That is what made the 1994 and 1995 NBA Finals very unique. We may never see that again if the rules and officiating remain the same.

Hakeem played in the era of the big man and he showed he was better then all of them when they played head to head.........That makes him #1 to me but that is just my opinion.

I agree that there really isn't a wrong choice between those two and that Hakeem was better H2H when they matched up in 1994.

Shaq peaked several years later when he put up back-to-back playoff seasons of:

30.7 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.4 bpg and

30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 2.4 bpg.

Shaq had 3 seasons with a 30+ PER in the playoffs and 3 seasons with 3.8+ win shares.

Hakeem's peak back to back seasons he went:

28.9 ppg, 11 rpg, 4.3 apg, 4 bpg and

33 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 4.5 apg, 2.8 bpg.

He had 1 season with a 30+ PER (first round loss) and 1 season where he accrued 3.8+ win shares.

Also, in the 10 best years surrounding Hakeem's playoff peak (i.e., the 87-93 seasons and the 96-98 seasons) the Rockets:

Missed the playoffs 1 time

Were bounced in the first round 5 times

Were bounced in the second round 3 times

Were bounced in the conference finals 1 time

Never reached the finals

Never won a championship

In the 10 years surrounding Shaq's playoff peak (i.e., the 95-99 seasons and the 02-06 seasons) his teams:

Never missed the playoffs

Never lost in the first round

Were bounced in the second round 3 times

Were bounced in the conference finals 2 times

Were bounced in the finals 3 times

Won the NBA championship 2 times

If you are looking at a single moment in time, it is a tossup for me. If you are looking at the career peak and asking me which player do I want today heading into the peak of his career it would be Shaq for the sheer dominance he exerted over the league.

[macdaddy]

To me Hakeem is the best because he totally carried his teams to championships. It was him and a bunch of shooters. Shaq hasn't won a championship without a hall of famer by his side. Plus I've always felt like Shaq ushered in the concept of the big man just being allowed to bulldoze his way to the rim. Hakeem and Ewing didn't get away with that crap and now Howard does the same.

Joe vs. Ray is tough because Joe is a better all around player i think but I just haven't seen much consistency from him the last few years.

Mookie was a total homer vote for me as well as Nique. Although what would the Celtics have been like if Nique was in Bird's place. Its hard to believe they wouldn't have won as many or more championships.

[AHF]

In all seriousness, no homerism, I don't see why Ray Allen over Joe or Alex English is an easy call?

here is their best seasons

Joe's career year is comparable to Ray's but after that the next several best years during their peaks belong to Ray. For example, Joe has averaged 22+ ppg 1 season, Ray has averaged 22+ ppg 7 seasons. Joe has never shot .560 ts% in his life while Ray has shot .560+ ts% 12 times. Joe has better (but not difference making) defense and passing but not enough to make up the difference as a scorer. Easy call for me if I am trading for one of these guys as they enter the peak of their career. Once you go to the playoffs, it becomes even more lopsided.

English is a better case but as someone else noted, he wasn't a SG. As a SG, he would have needed to have been able to spread the floor for other players and he never shot from deep and was instead the master of the midrange game (and he was a master at that). Combining the fact that he wasn't a guard and didn't spread the floor as a perimeter shooting guard ideally should do, it wasn't hard for me to go with Ray Allen.

Edited May 24, 2011 by AHF

[Marvin24Williams]

I chose: Dirk, Joe, Howard, and B. Diddy

I chose Dirk because I would want a low post presence who we can give the ball to and ask to score for us. I chose Howard because he's an elite defender and he could make up for the poor defense from Dirk. Joe's my 2 because I like someone who can create his own shot, and have a post up game. He's also big so it's harder for smaller guards to guard him. And last, I chose Baron Davis because he can score, and his passing is elite. His defense in his prime was also very solid.

Edited May 24, 2011 by WhassupHawks

[AHF]

I chose Howard because he's an elite defender and he could make up for the poor defense from Dirk.

IMO, Hakeem has Howard beat out both as a defender and as an offensive option.

I also don't think of Dirk as an impact low post player - certainly not low post in the sense of operating out of the blocks. This year he has shot 87% jump shots, for example.

[DJlaysitup]

Ray vs Alex English is a really tough call...50/50...so I took Alex. Had to go with "the Admiral" as the center due to my own Navy heritage. :biggrin: .

This is an odd poll but I guess with no (late) 1st round draft pick - whatcha gonna talk about? :kickcan:

[Diesel]

IMO, Hakeem has Howard beat out both as a defender and as an offensive option.

I also don't think of Dirk as an impact low post player - certainly not low post in the sense of operating out of the blocks. This year he has shot 87% jump shots, for example.

Dirk vs. Bird though...

Bird has the name, but Dirk's game is better.

Dirk is a better scorer.

He is 7'1".

He is able to play in the post if he elected to.

Larry Legend played with a legendary team and he gets a lot of credit because of that and other things. Mainly (he and Magic saved Basketball).

But Dirk... is a better player. I'd choose him over Bird.

Ray vs Alex English is a really tough call...50/50...so I took Alex. Had to go with "the Admiral" as the center due to my own Navy heritage. :biggrin: .

This is an odd poll but I guess with no (late) 1st round draft pick - whatcha gonna talk about? :kickcan:

There's a hidden agenda in everything?!!?!??!?

The poll really looks at value.

[AHF]

Since both Bird and Dirk have played 13 years, the comparison isn't difficult:

Bird 24.3 ppg > Dirk 23.0 ppg

Dirk .583 ts% > Bird .564 ts%

Bird 10.0 rpg at the SF position >>> Dirk 8.4 rpg at the PF position

Bird 6.3 apg >> Dirk 2.7 apg

Bird 1.7 spg >> Dirk 0.9 spg

Dirk 1.0 bpg (PF) = Bird 0.8 bpg (SF)

Edge - Bird with his overall game.

Anytime you are playing Dirk at PF, you are giving up a ton on the boards compared to having Bird at SF. That is the single biggest difference. You are giving up a ton of passing ability. You are giving up a lot of steals. You are giving up some scoring but that is slightly more than offset by a gain in efficiency.

They are close enough that you can argue this but I'll take Bird without hesitating.

[vext]

Since both Bird and Dirk have played 13 years, the comparison isn't difficult:

Bird 24.3 ppg > Dirk 23.0 ppg

Dirk .583 ts% > Bird .564 ts%

Bird 10.0 rpg at the SF position >>> Dirk 8.4 rpg at the PF position

Bird 6.3 apg >> Dirk 2.7 apg

Bird 1.7 spg >> Dirk 0.9 spg

Dirk 1.0 bpg (PF) = Bird 0.8 bpg (SF)

Edge - Bird with his overall game.

Anytime you are playing Dirk at PF, you are giving up a ton on the boards compared to having Bird at SF. That is the single biggest difference. You are giving up a ton of passing ability. You are giving up a lot of steals. You are giving up some scoring but that is slightly more than offset by a gain in efficiency.

They are close enough that you can argue this but I'll take Bird without hesitating.

Both players are definitely greats. I went with Bird though due to some of his intangibles. He was a born leader. He refused to lose at all costs. He really had a mean streak when he played. He wouldn't back down to anyone. He just had more drive in my opinion. He beat players that were stronger, bigger, faster, etc. Also, he made other players around him better. McHale and Parish really thrived off of having Bird on the court. Who knows how many championships they could have won if Bird had blown out his back paving his mom's driveway?

[coachx]

Both players are definitely greats. I went with Bird though due to some of his intangibles. He was a born leader. He refused to lose at all costs. He really had a mean streak when he played. He wouldn't back down to anyone. He just had more drive in my opinion. He beat players that were stronger, bigger, faster, etc. Also, he made other players around him better. McHale and Parish really thrived off of having Bird on the court. Who knows how many championships they could have won if Bird had blown out his back paving his mom's driveway?

Agreed............Birds intangibles put him over the top.

Dirk is starting to get that eye of the tiger at 32. Bird had it at 21.

Dirk has been described as "soft" many times over the last decade. I never heard "soft" and Bird in the same sentence and he played in a much rougher era.

Edited May 25, 2011 by coachx

[HawksFan87]

Bird , Allen, Hakeem and Mookie are my picks.

[hawkshomer]

Replace Marvin with Bird. How good is this hawks team? Also could you imagine Josh taking long jumpers with Bird on the team. I picked him mostly because I felt the hawks have been missing a real leader like that.

Edited May 25, 2011 by hawkshomer

[Joker]

Tim, Joe, Bird, and Hakeem.

[Diesel]

Since both Bird and Dirk have played 13 years, the comparison isn't difficult:

Bird 24.3 ppg > Dirk 23.0 ppg

Dirk .583 ts% > Bird .564 ts%

Bird 10.0 rpg at the SF position >>> Dirk 8.4 rpg at the PF position

Bird 6.3 apg >> Dirk 2.7 apg

Bird 1.7 spg >> Dirk 0.9 spg

Dirk 1.0 bpg (PF) = Bird 0.8 bpg (SF)

Edge - Bird with his overall game.

Anytime you are playing Dirk at PF, you are giving up a ton on the boards compared to having Bird at SF. That is the single biggest difference. You are giving up a ton of passing ability. You are giving up a lot of steals. You are giving up some scoring but that is slightly more than offset by a gain in efficiency.

They are close enough that you can argue this but I'll take Bird without hesitating.

Stats aside. Have you ever watched bird defend?? Bird was a part of a legendary team. 4 hall of famers. 3 top 50 of all time. What has Dirk had? His best shot came with Nash but that's been it. Most of his career, his C has been Ericka Dampiere. He has had to be the PF and the SG. And all we know of Bird, we know of him as a member of the big three. IF that's not insulation, I don't know what is...Maybe playing with Cornbread Maxwell, Nate Archibal, Pete Maravich, and Dave Cowens...

You put most players in a winning situation, they will play well.