TomSelleck Posted May 27, 2011 Report Share Posted May 27, 2011 You missed the whole point. Joe is a much better defender than Dirk. That was the point (Joe has more all around skill, Dirk is a better scorer)... You keep mentioning scoring as if if you showed 20 more ways that Dirk is a better scorer that it will change his all around game?? :alcoholic: Dirk is also a significantly better rebounder. Granted he is much taller and plays a position more favorable for getting rebounds, but the point is he does more than score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted May 28, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Dirk is also a significantly better rebounder. Granted he is much taller and plays a position more favorable for getting rebounds, but the point is he does more than score. Better passer? Joe. Better scorer ? Dirk.Better rebounder? 7'0 Dirk. Better post up gme? Joe. Better defense? Joe. More verbal? Al Horford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddielives Posted May 28, 2011 Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Better passer? Joe. Better scorer ? Dirk.Better rebounder? 7'0 Dirk. Better post up gme? Joe. Better defense? Joe. More verbal? Al Horford. Taken his team to the finals twice without any significant regressions in his game? Dirk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted May 28, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 28, 2011 Taken his team to the finals twice without any significant regressions in his game? Dirk. Better teammates and coach and organization? Dirk. You know, I've never seen dirk Doubled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Atlantaholic Posted May 30, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted May 30, 2011 These are some of the worst posts I've ever seen in my life. In career playoff numbers Dirk has the following advantages of Joe Johnson. TS% +.8.7 EFG% + 6.1% ORB % + .3% DRB% 14.5% TRB% 6.9% STL% EVEN BLK % +1.4% TOV% - 2.4% OFFRATING+ 17 DEFRATING - -6 PER + 11 WS/48 min -+ .173 The only thing Joe Johnson does better than Dirk is pass at a 5% higher clip. In every other DEFENSIVE and OFFENSIVE documented category in existence Dirk blows Joe Johnson out of the freaking universe. One thing that baffles me is Joe Johsnon's reputation as a good defender. He is not a significantly better defender than Dirk. They are both average at best, and often worse than average. Watching Joe Johnson defend pick and rolls is embarrassing. At least Dirk's size allows him to swat some shots every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayaPat420 Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Borderline first option??? Dirk got criticized for being soft when in reality he is one of the all time most clutch players and one of the all time best playoff performers in the history of the NBA. If Dallas had had a halfway decent post option EVER in their run with Nowitski you would have seen a dyansty. I'm actually a big Dirk fan but to say a seven footer needs someone else to play in the post isn't saying much for him. If you have noticed, their #1 post option today IS Dirk and no one else... so, if not soft, he definetly didn't play to his strengths earlier in his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 Forget Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not even sure Joe Johnson is any better than Jason Terry. Made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted May 31, 2011 Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 These are some of the worst posts I've ever seen in my life. In career playoff numbers Dirk has the following advantages of Joe Johnson. TS% +.8.7 EFG% + 6.1% ORB % + .3% DRB% 14.5% TRB% 6.9% STL% EVEN BLK % +1.4% TOV% - 2.4% OFFRATING+ 17 DEFRATING - -6 PER + 11 WS/48 min -+ .173 The only thing Joe Johnson does better than Dirk is pass at a 5% higher clip. In every other DEFENSIVE and OFFENSIVE documented category in existence Dirk blows Joe Johnson out of the freaking universe. One thing that baffles me is Joe Johsnon's reputation as a good defender. He is not a significantly better defender than Dirk. They are both average at best, and often worse than average. Watching Joe Johnson defend pick and rolls is embarrassing. At least Dirk's size allows him to swat some shots every now and then. JJ's rep as a good defender is justified, because just because you do one area subpar on defense, doesn't mean that you're a poor or average defender. JJ, when guarding his man straight up, hardly ever gets lit up ( unless he's going against an elite scorer, and even JJ wins some of those battles ). If anything, JJ coasts on defense at times. But when he locks in, he's a very good man to man defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted May 31, 2011 Moderators Report Share Posted May 31, 2011 JJ's rep as a good defender is justified, because just because you do one area subpar on defense, doesn't mean that you're a poor or average defender. JJ, when guarding his man straight up, hardly ever gets lit up ( unless he's going against an elite scorer, and even JJ wins some of those battles ). If anything, JJ coasts on defense at times. But when he locks in, he's a very good man to man defender. I do think Joe is a superior defender to Dirk. Dirk is so superior to Joe on offense, though, that they really aren't comparable players. (Dirk > Joe just to be clear). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSelleck Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Forget Dirk Nowitzki. I'm not even sure Joe Johnson is any better than Jason Terry. As I was saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member NineOhTheRino Posted June 13, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 As I was saying.... Jason has the heart of a champion. Joe Johnson has the heart of an obese chain smoker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joker Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I do think Joe is a superior defender to Dirk. Dirk is so superior to Joe on offense, though, that they really aren't comparable players. (Dirk > Joe just to be clear). The thing is Joe= very good offense and defense. Dirk=elite offense and BBIQ plus crazy height adv with above average defense and good rebounding. Jason has the heart of a champion. Joe Johnson has the heart of an obese chain smoker. Jason wants to win as much as Joe and Jamal. The difference is the team and Dirk can carry Dallas. Joe can't do that for Atlanta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 (edited) How soon we forget. After the 2006 season after Dallas lost to Miami and the subsequent years, what were people saying about Dirk and Jet. They were soft, Dirk was no leader, Jet shrank in the big moments. 5 years later here we are, their games and confidence have matured. It's so easy to say so and so wants it more when they win. Dirk had a horrible 1st half but his teammates were able to carry him, who does the lifting if Joe has a game like that. Joe is 3 and 4 years younger than Dirk and Jet respectively, he still has time with the right pieces to get somewhere. Edited June 13, 2011 by jaybird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSelleck Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Dirk had a horrible 1st half but his teammates were able to carry him, who does the lifting if Joe has a game like that. Versus Orlando Joe Johnson: 108 points Jamal Crawford: 123 points 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 True that overall they're much better, but that's partly a product of Dirk's presence. In addition to his scoring prowess, dude is a superior leader and competitor than our top dog. I agree that Joe is a better athlete. But considering his age, Dirk was amazing. He is a very smart player and you are right on with your comment about leadership and competitiveness. Its interesting just how universally Miami is disliked. Seems like the whole country was rooting for the Mavs. Of course LeBron just made it worse with his comments yesterday, "All the people that was rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today. They have the same personal problems they had today." - Boo hoo, "everyone hates me." Can't believe I used to like that self-centered @$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrReality Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Joe's dribbling drives me crazy and kills the offense. Different with Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supporter Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Jason has the heart of a champion. Joe Johnson has the heart of an obese chain smoker. You say that you aren't a JJ hater but you say stuff like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSelleck Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 I agree that Joe is a better athlete. But considering his age, Dirk was amazing. He is a very smart player and you are right on with your comment about leadership and competitiveness. Is he? Joe may be a marginally better athlete in a vacuum, but if you throw in a height adjustment, Dirk is way, way more athletic than your average 7'0" player in the NBA compared to how Joe would relate to your average 6'7" NBA player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member NineOhTheRino Posted June 13, 2011 Premium Member Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 You say that you aren't a JJ hater but you say stuff like this. Slow day so I'm just having a little fun Supporter. The whole world knows JJ has the heart of a wild lion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNorthCydeRises Posted June 13, 2011 Report Share Posted June 13, 2011 Versus Orlando Joe Johnson: 108 points Jamal Crawford: 123 points vs Chicago Joe Johnson: 118 points Jamal Crawford: 62 points 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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