We can't trust Teague.

[Diesel]

I'm having fun with this opponent counterpart stat...

Did you know that Joe's numbers bests D. Wade's at the SG?

Joe is also better at defense than:

Rip Halmilton

Stephen Curry

OJ Mayo

Landry Fields

and many more.

Joe is really not that bad of a defender.

Horf at C is not great defensively..

Neither is JSmoove at PF.

Marvin at Sf is holding opponents to 54.6% EFg%????

[KB21]

NO . . the negative is that the backcourt ( when they played together this year ), only really worked one time.

As a whole, the lineup was terrible, in the short time they played with each other ( a little over 30 minutes )

In fact, out of the top 25 lineups we put out on the floor this season, the Teague - Hinrich - Johnson - Smith - Horford lineup was the 2nd WORST lineup we could've put on the floor. The Teague - Hinrich backcourt is simply too small to get it done. They may be active and might get a few more steals, but the position defense just wasn't there this season when they did play with each other.

And I have no idea why you keep saying ( or inferring ) that JJ is a below average defender. He's an above average defender at the 2. Hell, he's even an above average defender at the 3. Very few guys light him up on a regular basis. JJ's weakness on defense is fighting through screens. But when it comes to guarding his man straight up, the opposing SG has a difficult time scoring over him. Ask Jason Richardson. Ask Luou Deng on those times in which he and JJ were pitted against each other.

JJ posts some of the best Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production numbers in the league. When he plays SG, the opposing SG only shot an eFG% of 46% . . scored 17.1 ppg per-48 minutes ( if adjusted for per-36 minutes, that would be 12.8 ppg ) . . and posted a PER of 11.6. Just for comparison, a guy that people cite as a better defender ( Ronnie Brewer ), has an Opponent Counterpart Per-48 Minute Production numbers of 46% eFG . . 19.3 points ( 14.5 ppg per-36 minutes ) . . and a PER of 12.7

The idea that JJ is some poor or even an defender is simply false. If anything, JJ possesses the ability to ratchet up his defense to borderline elite level, but he tends to coast at times during games ( but not in the 4th quarter ). But it's open season on Mr. Johnson these days, so it is to be expected.

And the Bibby - Crawford - JJ unit was one of our best offensive units last year, and came out on the positive end on most nights ( even if they had trouble stopping people ). And the same thing was true in 09 - 10. That was our offensive unit, with 2 guards who could created their own shot, and a PG that could spot up from 3 and knock down shots. But when Bibby started missing shots, that hurt big time.

I look more at his on court/off court numbers. The Hawks gave up 106.76 points per 100 possessions with Joe on the floor. They gave up 106.94 points per 100 possessions with him off the floor. When you consider the fact that Joe's replacement on the court was more often than not Jamal Crawford, who may just be the 2nd worst defender in the NBA to Mike Bibby, it shows you that his presence on the floor really did nothing for the Hawks defense. When you compare that to Josh Smith and Al Horford, you can see the impact. With Josh on the floor, the Hawks give up 6.11 fewer points per 100 possessions than with him off the floor. With Al Horford on the floor, they give up 1.17 fewer points per 100 possessions.

Joe Johnson doesn't rebound the ball well and doesn't help end possessions by forcing turnovers or blocking shots. All of that has to be taken into account when determining the defensive ability of a player.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

So instead of looking what his man specifically does on the floor, you'd rather look at how we function with JJ on the floor compared to off, as a true indicator of his defensive impact.

Well let me ask you this.

If JJ's opponent counterpart numbers indicate that the player opposite of JJ isn't being very productive offensively . . but the team as a whole are posting worse defensive numbers with JJ in the game . doesn't that mean that someone else is lighting up the Hawks with JJ in the game, than JJ having a negative impact defensively.

Case in point . . Orlando.

Jason Richardson is Orlando's 2nd leading scorer. But when he played the Hawks, he was rendered useless ( with JJ guarding him most of the time ). That trend coninued in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, a guy like Dwight Howard is destroying us.

So should JJ get blamed for a post player destroying us, or get credit for us stopping him?

Either way, JJ's defensive impact on that particular game can't be measured by what the post player does. But it can be measured by what his man does specifically.

If you want more blocks and steals . . fine. I guess that makes a guy like Monta Ellis a great defensive player, even though he can't stop anybody.