Jamal Crawford (Will the Hawks really lose him and get nothing in return?)

[PaceRam]

Speaking of Hinrich - Can anyone tell me what his contract status is with the Hawks? Thanks!

[coachx]

Speaking of Hinrich - Can anyone tell me what his contract status is with the Hawks? Thanks!

He is due $8 mill next season and will be a free agent in 2012.

He has alot of value (both on the court and as an expiring contract in trade).

[TheNorthCydeRises]

how about this for a reality check

If we dont make the Hinrich trade we dont get out of the first rd so Drew is fired and so is Sund the team is blown up because the new management comes in looking to make changes.

Would that be a BAD thing?

I mean . . . people don't believe this team can advance further as currently constructed anyway. So you make a trade or two to change the mix, to see if it makes us better. And Sund would be gone, along with Drew. If the right people were brought in, that wouldn't be a bad thing at all.

Here's a question . . . . who had a better playoff series?

- Hinrich vs Orlando

- Teague vs Chicago

The question is relevant because whose to say that Teague may have done the same thing vs the Magic that he did vs Chicago, and helped us beat them? This entire team was looking like garbage going into the playoffs ( including Hinrich ), but once the playoffs began, people stepped up. Hinrich did his job and was good on both ends of the floor. So he gets credit for that. The question then would be, if Hinrich wasn't here, could Teague have done the same thing? Or the more important question . . would Drew trust Teague to play extended minutes, if Bibby continued to struggle?

The real issue is this though.

With a max contract on the payroll ( JJ ), and two other sizeable contracts along with it ( Smith and Horford ), the rest of the team will have to be made up of lower level type contracts. Because of that, the Hawks MUST get maximum value out of the rest of the guys on the roster.

The reason why you keep a few young players on the payroll, is that they may be able to play ABOVE what they are being paid for a few years. If Teague can consistently do what he did in that Chicago series, his value to the team will skyrocket. He'll be a player being paid 2 mill a year, that would be playing at a 5 - 8 million dollar level if he were to hit the market. In Washington, a guy like Jordan C. is poised to be one of their main guys, despite only making a little under 4.5 million for the next 3 years. If the kid becomes a more consistent shooter, he'd easily increase his value to the Wiz.

When you look across the league, you'll see how some of these other playoff teams benefited from a guy playing well above what he was paid:

- Rose: 5.6 million ( league MVP )

- Barea: 1.8 million ( a big key for Dallas in the playoffs )

- Lawson: 1.6 million ( and he'll make a little over 4 million for the next 2 years )

- Holiday: 1.6 million ( developing into a nice starting PG )

- George Hill: 1.2 million ( solid PG behind Parker )

- Blair: 900K ( although he didn't play much in the playoffs, he is a top notch rebounder )

- Meeks: 760K ( 3 point specialist for Philly )

Honestly, we should have Teague, Jordan, and the 2010 and 2011 1st round picks as the developmental support group for the "core". And if only 2 of those guys would be able to play above their contract, it could help us tremendously. Instead, it's Teague and Teague only that has a chance to do it, while we'll bring in a plethora of vet minimum scrubs who may not even play up to that low of a standard.

[Diesel]

how about this for a reality check

If we dont make the Hinrich trade we dont get out of the first rd so Drew is fired and so is Sund the team is blown up because the new management comes in looking to make changes.

One step further..

Team is blown up, including Teague, Including Joe (to NY), including Horf, Including JC2, and Smoove is the only guy left here to play under Bob Weiss or Some third rank assistant. The Hawks load up on draft picks in this draft and the next and we look like Dorks for the next 8 yrs.

[Diesel]

Honestly, we should have Teague, Jordan, and the 2010 and 2011 1st round picks as the developmental support group for the "core".

I have disagree. Diesel has a corollary.

Had we not made the trade.

This team would have been beaten like a slave by Orlando (if we maintained the 5th slot). Why? Bibby...

Say what you want to about Bibby, Bibby was a team leader, he was not going to the bench to play Teague or Crawford. Remember, we tried that before, we handed Crawford the team and said he was the starter... We went right back to Bibby.

So Bibby's brand of Olay defense would have allowed Nelson to go off and the Big lineup would have FAILED. Just like Last year.

Moreover, there would have been nothing to stop Sund from trading both Craw2 and Teague after losing to Orlando.

Let's face it.. Teague was not LD's guy. LD wasn't bringing Teague along slowly. LD doesn't even trust Teague NOW... Neither was Craw2. LD's guys are Bibby, Joe, and Jamal. Teague was made starter out of necessity. Had we lost to Orl, we would have gave in and finally traded Teague and Craw2 and went after some vet. BU PG who is not worth a damn and we would have resigned Jamal. Or we would have just resigned Jamal and called him our BU PG and drafted some 2nd round guy as the 3rd stringer.

We're talking about a team who would still have Mario West if it were not for him signing elsewhere.

Sund did the smartest thing he could do when he traded for Hinrich. Hinrich got us out of the first round and if he could have come back would have taken us to the ECF. Hinrich hasn't had a camp with LD yet. I believe that if he works out with the Hawks in the summer, the familiarity will be there.

I think Sund is on the right track looking for a big and a Shooter. I don't know if Jamal is the right guy, but we need somebody who can shoot from outside. Jason Kapono should be cheap. James Jones should be also.

[Eddielives]

It has nothing to do with him being a pessimist. He's just being REAL.

Even Joe Johnson doesn't come to ATL, had the Hawks not found a loophole in the system, and frontloaded JJ's contract in that 1st year, so that he would get all of his salary increases in year 1 of that deal. JJ was paid 20 million in his first year in ATL ( Base salary of 12 million + the contract escalation bonuses of 8 million ). He went from being paid 2.36 million dollars to 20 million. Even if he had decided to go back to Phoenix for the same contract, Phoenix couldn't pay him that extra 8 million that Atlanta could.

That's probably one of the top 3 reasons why he chose Atlanta in 2005. And the money again was the reason why he stayed in Atlanta in 2010.

Don't be fooled by anything else.

The facts are that only 2 other major free agents have come to ATL in the past 30 years, other than Joe Johnson.

- Nique was traded for

- Mookie was traded for

- Steve Smith was traded for

- Glenn Robinson was traded for

- Shareef Abdur Rahim was traded for

- Joe basically forced a trade to Atlanta by asking them not to match ATL's offer sheet

- Bibby was traded for

- Jamal was traded for

- Hinrich was traded for

Only Dikembe Mutumbo in his prime and an aging Moses Malone willingly came to Atlanta. And our best draft picks during that time were Jason Terry, Josh Smith, and Al Horford.

And even with those 3 signings for free agents, we had ample cap space to afford them. This year, that's not the case.

That's your history of the franchise for the past 30 years.

And with the statement about Shaq, you turn around and answer your own question. Shaq not only wanted more money to come to ATL, he didn't respect ATL's team or their organization at all. Then again, the ASG never aggressively went after Shaq anyway. The fact is that even when we did have the money to afford somebody, people turned us down left and right. When we were shopping for a starting caliber PG in 2006 to replace Lue, we couldn't get ANYBODY here. Cassell turned us down. We had to settle for Speedy Claxton . . and we all know how that turned out.

It's simply the reality of the situation here in Atlanta. For some reason, despite the nightlife that the city is famous for, free agents just aren't beating down the door to come to Atlanta. And with our financial situation this year, it's more important than ever for Sund and the ASG to get the maximum out of the low level guys they bring in. Maybe one of those guys will develop into a quality rotation player that can help us.

So unless we trade somebody, we're not getting anybody.

I understand the conclusion that it must be near impossible to get a high profile free agent to sign here when you look at the Hawk's history. But I also know that if you give up on ever having things line up for your team and change the course of history, then you're doomed to always have an excuse for why your team can't win a championship so why bother? We have to believe that things can get better with better ownership because that's where it all begins. Look at the Falcons. Three seasons ago, this team was in the cellar despite drafting one of the most dynamic quarterbacks in history. Only after hitting rock bottom and getting the right gm, coach and one lucky draft pick did the franchise that had never had back to back winning seasons change it's culture and is now a legit contender for the super bowl for at least the next several years. If you give up, you can't really complain about the state of the Hawks. I am quite good at complaining and I will continue to until this team gets it's ownership situation changed and gets the right coach here. Things can turn around quickly.