Straight out the frying pan into the fire!

[DrReality]

When was that?

During an interview on the radio. About ten days ago. I didnt hear the whole thing.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

My question is . . .

If people are so frustrated with the Hawks and their inability to get past the 2nd round, that they want to see the team blown up . . . will those same people buy season tickets for the next 3 - 4 years while this team is rebuilding, and support the Hawks?

I already know the answer to that.

And LOL @ the people worrying about the state of the Hawks in 3 to 5 years. If we get rid of JJ and basically get nothing in return, you BETTER worry about the Hawks in the next 1 - 3 years. Because if this team becomes a lottery team, the people of ATL will NOT support them while they retool.

And if that happens, what if rumors to move the team OUT of ATL start to surface.

LOL . . so while people are worried about the impact of a JJ contract 2 - 4 years from now, they might be rooting for the Seattle Hawks, if ownership blows it up, fans stop coming, and the ASG sells the team to the highest bidder.

[coachx]

During an interview on the radio. About ten days ago. I didnt hear the whole thing.

Sund actually said the opposite of what you think he said in that interview.

He said the Hawks would NOT do a trade of addition by subteraction.

[Blunt91]

Sund actually said the opposite of what you think he said in that interview.

He said the Hawks would NOT do a trade of addition by subteraction.

I don't know about this latest interview, but Sund used that same phrase right before the trade deadline, and we ended up with Kirk Hinrich. So I Would not totally believe everything he says.

[AHF]

Really? There have been many times Al faded against bigger aggressive players. Lopez, Big Baby, Dwight, CHICAGO, Hell I saw David West Scowl towards him to the bench and I thought Al might pee. Several scribes have written about it and in private discussions.

I'm afraid he has gone "Euro". I'd rather have Humphries with Reggie Evans backing him up.

Let's see the basketball reference head to head comparisons:

Al v. Lopez - 14.3 ppg on 52% shooting, 9.7 rpg

Al v. Big Baby (and Perkins & KG) - 11.2 ppg, 9.3 rpg (versus 8.8 ppg and 4.8 rpg for Baby)

Al v. Chicago (last 3 years) - 16 ppg on 53% shooting, 9.4 rpg, 1.9 bpg

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=horfoal01&p2=rosede01)

Al v. Dwight - 11.8 ppg on 51% shooting, 8.1 rpg

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=horfoal01&p2=howardw01)

So we've seen that Al struggles to respectable numbers when matched up head to head against the best player in the league. In total, it looks like he is averaging roughly 13.5 ppg and 9.1 rpg in the matchups where you think he struggles.

Now let's look at the great Kris Humphries who we have to remember CANNOT PLAY CENTER.

Humphries v. Dwight - 6.5 ppg and 4.8 rpg

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=humphkr01&p2=howardw01)

Humphries v. Big Baby - 6.4 ppg and 6.2 rpg on 41% shooting

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=humphkr01&p2=davisgl01)

Humphries v. Chicago (last 3 years) - 7.8 ppg on 49% shooting, 8.0 rpg

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=humphkr01&p2=rosede01)

Humphries v. Lopez - 5.5 ppg on 46% shooting and 3.0 rpg

(http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=humphkr01&p2=lopezbr01)

Humphries v. Al -

Humphries - 6.6 ppg on 40% shooting and 6.1 rpg

Horford - 14.0 ppg on 50% shooting and 9.8 rpg

Yeah, sign me up for some Humphries! The team getting the less productive, older and less versatile player is usually the winner.

[ryandauwalker]

My question is . . .

If people are so frustrated with the Hawks and their inability to get past the 2nd round, that they want to see the team blown up . . . will those same people buy season tickets for the next 3 - 4 years while this team is rebuilding, and support the Hawks?

I already know the answer to that.

And LOL @ the people worrying about the state of the Hawks in 3 to 5 years. If we get rid of JJ and basically get nothing in return, you BETTER worry about the Hawks in the next 1 - 3 years. Because if this team becomes a lottery team, the people of ATL will NOT support them while they retool.

And if that happens, what if rumors to move the team OUT of ATL start to surface.

LOL . . so while people are worried about the impact of a JJ contract 2 - 4 years from now, they might be rooting for the Seattle Hawks, if ownership blows it up, fans stop coming, and the ASG sells the team to the highest bidder.

The people of ATL generally do not support the Hawks anyways (apart from playoff time or when MIA, CHI or LAL are in town).

The reason that people haven't supported us is because we've put a lousy product on the field throughout our franchise history. If we have JJ's bloated salary when he is markedly worse than he now, that WILL have a strong negative imprint on our team. There are capable SG's who can come in and average a max of 4 less PPG and we'll be fine.

To think that if we let go of JJ our team will go to Seattle is crazy. Who says we won't go to Seattle if we keep him? JJ is at his max value now (even though it is very low), and if we don't take it, we'll regret it in the future.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The people of ATL generally do not support the Hawks anyways (apart from playoff time or when MIA, CHI or LAL are in town).

The reason that people haven't supported us is because we've put a lousy product on the field throughout our franchise history. If we have JJ's bloated salary when he is markedly worse than he now, that WILL have a strong negative imprint on our team. There are capable SG's who can come in and average a max of 4 less PPG and we'll be fine.

To think that if we let go of JJ our team will go to Seattle is crazy. Who says we won't go to Seattle if we keep him? JJ is at his max value now (even though it is very low), and if we don't take it, we'll regret it in the future.

But you're not getting MAX value for JJ, if you're simply blowing up the team. All you're doing is getting rid of his contract and trying to start over ( ala 1999 . . when we got rid of an aging Smitty and Mookie ). Getting maximum value for JJ would mean that we are getting back a player(s) that would make us better RIGHT NOW . . not clearing cap space for the POTENTIAL to get better, but sucking in the short term. We would become the Pistons, if we started to sell off everybody. Do you want that?

This team for the past 4 years has been anything but a lousy product. And historically, the Hawks haven't been lousy either. Historically, this has always been a playoff team that showed signs of getting to that next level, but never did.

And don't get me started again on Atlanta fans. The fact is that ATL is a lukewarm sports town at best that only supports superstar talents . . . not winning teams. If this team right now went into the tank, attendance would suffer significantly. Last year saw the Hawks draw the fewest people they have since 2006 - 07.

No Ryan . . . what you want to do is kill the Hawks NOW . . and hope that we get better than we are now in the future. Instead of trading one of the PFs to try to make the current team better, you'd rather trade the one guy that usually determines if we win or lose during the playoffs. You'd rather fall out of contention for anything for 3 or 4 years and HOPE CP3 or Dwight will sign with a lottery team like us with cap space . . instead of with a team that can win a title if they go there. That's the fools gold of the "blow up theory".

But like I said . . I hope you buy season tickets for the next 3 - 4 years as we go back to winning 17 - 21 home games, and struggle to win 35 games on the total season. Fans then will have a legit excuse to not show up to games and let fans of opposing teams take over our arena.

[ryandauwalker]

ATL as a sports city is an enigma. It should be great, but our fans our lukewarm. They've been spoiled with the Braves, the Hawks and Falcons have been horrible for so long (apart from the last few years). The city dynamics could complicate things, the fact that people come here traditionally with previous allegiances could complicate things, but that's a separate issue in my mind.

Here's where the main difference between our thinking is:

- You believe if we dump JJ and do not get equal value (as far as talent goes), our team will suck forever and only horrible fans want this to happen. You think this is Nique all over again, and because of our city's apathy towards the Hawks, we will not be able to recover and there is a chance our team is going to Seattle. Obviously, nobody wants us to go to Seattle.

- I believe that dumping JJ is in our franchise's best interest even if we don't play as well next year. Having a less potent SG (let's say Rip Hamilton) will not kill us and other players can step up in his absence. Our offense can improve if we take advantage of our talents better in Horford, Smith, and Teague. I'm concerned that Joe's contract will be such an inhibitor in years to come that we will be in high lottery land if Smith bolts (possible after his contract), JJ is half of what he is now, and we have no money.

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but let me know if this interpretation of our points of view is accurate.

Edited June 22, 2011 by ryandauwalker

[warcore]

nbasuperstar-

have you heard anything of these Smith to ORL rumors? I am not liking what I'm hearing.

[Joker]

nbasuperstar-

have you heard anything of these Smith to ORL rumors? I am not liking what I'm hearing.

People are throwing mud hoping it sticks. Atlanta has a criteria and if it doesn't fit it or better. No trade will happen. Atlanta is not trading with Orlando because Atlanta wants Dwight or any superstar in a trade or FA. This prevents that. So whatever you hear isn't true if it involves them and us.

Some of this is coming from Josh Smith camp as a Boston journalist wrote. Smith wants to be traded to a winner and no winner has what we want. So at least he has his trade kicker which gives him an extra million a year. I am hearing Otis is trying to lower Smith's trade value and raise his players value which is really bad management from Smith. He has burned so many relationships. It's not surprising to me if Dwight walks even if it's to a weaker team and worst market.

I wouldn't take anything that mentions Atlanta seriously until the draft. Sund is keeping things under wraps for now. The feeder as it stands is basically what I wrote in the first post.

Edited June 22, 2011 by nbasuperstar40

[ryandauwalker]

nbasuperstar -

Any updates on your chatter regarding the Det-Chi-Atl talks?

I like those a lot more than this ORL garbage.

[Joker]

nbasuperstar -

Any updates on your chatter regarding the Det-Chi-Atl talks?

I like those a lot more than this ORL garbage.

I did text earlier and nothing is expected now for numerous reasons. I think that's something that's been talked about but the new CBA is everything to be honest. Joe is safe till the new CBA is announced.

Josh on the other hand, idk. Sund is keeping things on under wraps. Like I said, if Atlanta gets what they want, it's possible. But nothing Orlando has is possible. Too short on assets. Has a player Atlanta covets. They can't really help a 3rd team either. Everyone constantly gets screwed in an Orlando purposed rumor with their current makeup unless Howard is getting traded which isn't happening. This carry's far less weight then AJC Bradley's Horford for Howard or Bynum for Smith ideas.

[atljonesbro]

I'm new to the forum so I have a question. How do you get ahold of this info. nba? Not saying you're lying which I doubt because most people are on board with what you're saying, just wanna know how you get the info. Is it your job or what?

[DrReality]

Sund actually said the opposite of what you think he said in that interview.

He said the Hawks would NOT do a trade of addition by subteraction.

I stand corrected.

[sturt]

I stand corrected.

(+1... always admirable to see.)

[Joker]

I'm new to the forum so I have a question. How do you get ahold of this info. nba? Not saying you're lying which I doubt because most people are on board with what you're saying, just wanna know how you get the info. Is it your job or what?

Out of respect for my sources, I was told not to say their location and where they work anymore and not to talk about deals as being a done deal. I mentioned it in the past. It's still the same two and one new guy.