Can the Atlanta Hawks fly any higher?

[RonMexico]

1. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta is the second-best team in the Southeast.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fiction. Sure, Atlanta had its way with Orlando during the playoffs, but it's a safe bet that Dwight Howard and the Magic will win at least 50 games (depending on the length of the lockout, of course), while the same can't be guaranteed for the Hawks.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Fiction. The Hawks matched up well against the Magic in the playoffs, but Orlando's won more games than the Hawks in each of the last seven seasons. I'd love to see the Hawks pass the Magic but recognize that will necessitate the Magic backing up as well as the Hawks progressing.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: It's a toss-up between Atlanta and Orlando. However, neither team seems to be headed on an upward trajectory. There is still a vast chasm between Miami and the rest of the division. Charlotte and Washington may be improved, but still not enough to catch even a slipping Orlando or Atlanta.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Fact. Charlotte and Washington haven't done enough to be in the conversation. And in the 2011 playoffs, the Hawks demonstrated that without a yeoman effort from Dwight Howard, the Magic can be beaten rather handily. The Hawks cannot beat Miami, Boston or Chicago, but they can find solace in being the second-best in the Southeast.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: Fiction. So long as Dwight Howard is around you can pencil Orlando in for a minimum of 50 wins, even if they are only surrounding him with role players. With Joe Johnson as the closest thing the Hawks have to a superstar, Atlanta is a mid-40-win team at best.

2. Fact or Fiction: Re-signing Joe Johnson was the right move.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fact. Joe Johnson has played six productive years in Atlanta, and last season was his worst in a Hawks uniform. He's an All-Star, and a case can be made that he is a top-five shooting guard in the league. But is he worth over $20 million a season? No way.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Fiction. Even people critical of the deal when it was signed last summer acknowledged that it would probably be a couple of seasons before the Hawks fully regretted Johnson's contract. Oops. Johnson played hurt through most of his age-29 season and struggled to score as a result, giving the Hawks limited return on the smallest annual investment (just $16 million!) due him.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: Fiction. The Johnson contract robbed the Hawks of financial and roster flexibility for the next several seasons. They've locked themselves into a team with the potential to be consistently good, but a slim chance at being great. As bad as the deal looks now, it will only look worse as Johnson continues to age and his yearly salary steadily increases.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Fiction. During the 2010 playoffs, Johnson averaged 12.7 points and shot 30 percent from the field as the Magic swept the Hawks. When the Hawks were ousted in six games by the Bulls this year, Johnson averaged 29 points in their two wins, and just 15 points in four losses. Johnson makes All-Star money, but up to this point, his play in big games has been pedestrian.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: We're left with little else besides our memories of the NBA right now so long as this lockout continues. Some of those memories are amazing -- Hawks fans can look at tape of Dominique Wilkins for days, I'm sure. Some memories seemed like a bad dream when they happened and only get worse. That's my explanation of Joe Johnson's contract.

3. Fact or Fiction: Jeff Teague should start at point guard.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fact. At the very least, by making league MVP Derrick Rose work on both ends of the court during the Hawks-Bulls series, Teague has earned the right to get the keys to the car in Atlanta.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Fact. With no cap space, few players under contract and no first-round pick from either 2010 or 2011 on the roster, the Hawks, if they're going to improve, have to do so from within. Teague's the only real candidate to provide that. I mean, Marvin Williams might stop taking jump shots with his heels on the 3-point line, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: Fact. From the outside, it seems the Hawks may have peaked in terms of what they can accomplish with this group of players. The one possibility for dramatic improvement, without roster changes, would be the development of Jeff Teague. If the Hawks hope to become more than they currently are, Teague should be starting, playing big minutes and given every opportunity to grow into an impact player.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Fact. When you're in a playoff series against league MVP Derrick Rose, play 37 minutes a game, average one turnover, score over 20 points three times and help everyone forget how important Kirk Hinrich is, you deserve to start. Hinrich can come off the bench, play strong defense and occasionally play shooting guard.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: Fact. Eventually the training wheels have to come off and you have to see if you're really ready to ride that bike. Either Jeff Teague is ready to play or the Hawks need to start looking elsewhere for a point guard of the future. This is the season they get to find out.

4. Fact or Fiction: The Hawks should trade Josh Smith.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fiction. He puts fans in the seats, plays defense, rebounds and scores. If only someone could get him to stop channeling his inner Larry Bird by firing up so many jumpers. Still, it will be hard to get fair market value for Smith in a trade.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Fiction. The Hawks should trade Josh Smith if trading him brings back greater value. Same goes for Al Horford or any other player on the roster. The Hawks simply don't have enough good players that they can trade one of them because he's frustrating. Even when taking an obscene number of jump shots, Smith's a very good player.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: Fact. If the Hawks feel that they can't win with the current roster, moving Smith is the only way to accomplish wholesale changes. The problem is, a deal that is reasonable and significantly improves the Hawks is difficult to envision. Rebuilding on the fly may require moving Smith for below market value. A more fundamental rebuild will be difficult, especially owing Joe Johnson 17 zillion dollars over the next half-decade. The third option is to keep Smith and hope that his mental and emotional abilities catch up with his remarkable physical abilities -- three choices, none particularly appealing or certain of success.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Fact. The Hawks cannot beat the Heat, the Celtics or the Bulls in a seven-game series with their current personnel. Josh Smith is not just the ultimate player in fantasy basketball; he's a talented forward who presents matchup problems for opposing teams. Trading Smith could bring in two or three players who could help them over the hump.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: Fact. For the sake of making a move, it would be silly to trade off an asset like Smith. But if Atlanta can get something of real value, a couple of prospects for example, shipping out Smith may make sense. They need something different; they don't need to stand still. But they could stand pat and make the playoffs once again.

5. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta should re-sign Jamal Crawford.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fact. He's willing to take big shots, he's a solid playmaker and he has shaken the label that teams can't win with him on the roster. Is he the perfect player? No, but he has shown he helps Atlanta win games.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Fiction. The Hawks got as much out of two seasons of Jamal Crawford as possible. They should be proud and grateful for that and move on. Crawford will turn 31 during the 2011-12 season (if applicable) and his strengths and weaknesses largely overlap with those of Joe Johnson. Let's see if a little more diversity of skills in the backcourt can improve the team.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: Fiction. The temptation will be there, as he scored a lot of points for the Hawks over the past two seasons. Unfortunately, putting points on the board was about the extent of his contributions. Inefficient volume scoring from a backcourt player can be had for a much cheaper price than Crawford will command.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Fact. Having Jamal Crawford on your team is like having a crazy friend in your entourage. Some days he can get you in trouble, but on other days he can bail you out of tight situations. Crawford is one of the few Hawks who is willing to take the big shots in the big games, and he should be re-signed.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: Fact. Atlanta doesn't have many playmakers. On Atlanta's roster, only Teague and Kirk Hinrich can count themselves as firm point guards. Crawford gives them another creator, and one who can score in bunches at that. So long as he'll come fairly cheap, and I'm assuming we're losing a season precisely so guys like Crawford can come cheap, he still fits.

BONUS: Do you expect the sale of the Hawks to affect the franchise?

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Alex Meruelo said, "I'm a person who doesn't give up. I want to bring a championship to the city of Atlanta." The current model is not title-ready, so expect a lot of changes with the Hawks.

Bret LaGree, Hoopinion: Alex Meruelo has two great opportunities to improve upon the stewardship of his new minority partners: (1) allow basketball people to make basketball decisions, and (2) better overcome the genuine demographic and logistical barriers to filling Philips Arena on a regular basis. The former should be an obvious decision, and getting that right could very well make a difference with the latter.

Ian Levy, The Two Man Game: As with any change in ownership, this sale raises questions about the future. However, any issues that arise in the front office will likely be dwarfed by the issues that the Hawks must deal with on the basketball court.

Rashad Mobley, Truth About It: Given that Alex Meruelo has gone from owning a bridal and tuxedo business to possibly owning the Hawks, I would not underestimate his ability to bring change. But unless he can pull a Mark Cuban and totally revamp the reputation of the Hawks' franchise, he'll have a difficult time making a difference.

Jeremy Schmidt, Bucksketball: As far as people outside Atlanta know, the Hawks haven't had a real owner since 2005. So long as the Pizza Man keeps the team in Atlanta, it should be a great thing for the team to finally have one true owner committed to the team. So long as they aren't upping the team, new owners typically work out well.

[lethalweapon3]

2. Fact or Fiction: Re-signing Joe Johnson was the right move.

Maurice Brooks, ESPN.com: Fact. Joe Johnson has played six productive years in Atlanta, and last season was his worst in a Hawks uniform. He's an All-Star, and a case can be made that he is a top-five shooting guard in the league. But is he worth over $20 million a season? No way.

So that's actually "Fiction," right?

~lw3

[AHF]

So that's actually "Fiction," right?

~lw3

Yes. They were unanimous on that question, although the rationale that not resigning JJ would have somehow significantly enhanced the cap room available is a bit dubious.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Legree is convinced that Horford and Smith are the Hawks 2 best players. The problem though, is that neither guy has the ability to be even a medium volume scorer ( especiallly in the playoffs ) on his own.

people are simply in denial about the importance of JJ on the team. If he is the 3rd best player on the squad, why don't the other guys step up to take the #1 role more often? Why does a 6 - 15 fg performance from JJ almost guarantee a loss, if he's simply the 3rd best player?

Heck . . if we can't get close to a repeat in the playoffs from Teague, even Jamal isn't expendible. When Horford or Smith can prove that they can be even a part-time go to scorer, that's when people can talk about if the Hawks can do without JJ ( even at that elevated price ) or even do without Jamal.

It's funny that the 2 guys people think we can do without, were the two guys ( when they balled ) almost guaranteed a win during the playoffs. Hopefully Teague will step up enough so that Jamal won't be missed. If he doesn't, people will be crying for Jamal back.

[thecampster]

Legree is convinced that Horford and Smith are the Hawks 2 best players. The problem though, is that neither guy has the ability to be even a medium volume scorer ( especiallly in the playoffs ) on his own.

people are simply in denial about the importance of JJ on the team. If he is the 3rd best player on the squad, why don't the other guys step up to take the #1 role more often? Why does a 6 - 15 fg performance from JJ almost guarantee a loss, if he's simply the 3rd best player?

Heck . . if we can't get close to a repeat in the playoffs from Teague, even Jamal isn't expendible. When Horford or Smith can prove that they can be even a part-time go to scorer, that's when people can talk about if the Hawks can do without JJ ( even at that elevated price ) or even do without Jamal.

It's funny that the 2 guys people think we can do without, were the two guys ( when they balled ) almost guaranteed a win during the playoffs. Hopefully Teague will step up enough so that Jamal won't be missed. If he doesn't, people will be crying for Jamal back.

Basketball is about much more than shooting 45% on floaters in the lane while getting your own shot. Keeping the ball moving (meaning wearing out a defense), getting into your offense early, playing solid defense, getting to the foul line are all just as important as being able to get your own shot. Comparing Joe to the real superstars in the league, the biggest difference is being willing to sacrifice your body to get to the free throw line.

I watched Horford get clobbered by Blake Griffin, get up and hit two key free throws. I watched Josh finish the last 20 games of the season icing down his knees before he ever hit the locker room and still he got up to try to block every shot. I see those two throwing their body around trying to guard the guards that Joe and Bibby oley'd into them all year. Constantly smaller than the other team's C/PF, they both relentlessly try to go to the rim on their own iso's and try to draw fouls. Those things are every bit as important as scoring 5 more points a game by getting your own shot. Call them the above average 3 but calling JJ clearly better based on his ability to score 1 on 1 against smaller players doesn't make him clearly the best on the team.

[EazyRoc]

Joe WAS our best player once upon a time...

[Diesel]

1. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta is the second-best team in the Southeast.

Diesel: Fact. It's not about winning in the regular season. If you win 77 games in the regular season and go out in the first round, you are nothing in this league. Atlanta proved it's dominance over Orlando. I suspect Washington will be better. Jordan is struggling in Charlotte. However, with the players Atlanta has now (Captain Kirk and Teague) and the coaching.. I think that you can expect growth.

2. Fact or Fiction: Re-signing Joe Johnson was the right move.

Diesel: Fact. People look at the contract. I look at it from an on the floor perspective. If you take away Joe, like it or not we are a 33 win team at best. Joe wasn't voted on 5 allstar teams because of his popularity. He was voted on because he's a hard cover. Teams spend a lot of time planning for stopping Joe. It gives other guys the opportunity to look good in Joe's shadow. Joe doesn't get the calls that other stars get. Joe doesn't play to the refs. However, even without that, he's still very good.

3. Fact or Fiction: Jeff Teague should start at point guard.

Diesel. Fiction. Thus far, we have only seen Teague against one guy. Rose was the league MVP but he's no defensive stopper. I think LD or whoever is coaching ought to let the matchup determine if we use Teague or Kirk as the starter. I believe Teague still has some learning to do and we would be less predictable if we have 2 guys who we can throw out there.

4. Fact or Fiction: The Hawks should trade Josh Smith.

Diesel. Fiction and Fact. I think it depends on what Josh did over the summer. He's our most tradable player now because of the PPP on Al's contract. In a perfect world, I would trade Al for a young Center like M. Gasol and move on... but in this world, we have to see how Al plays and what Josh has worked on.

5. Fact or Fiction: Atlanta should re-sign Jamal Crawford.

Diesel. Fact. Now, Money is not that big of an issue. The question is does he make our team better? We would not have gotten past Orlando without him. We need that guy who can play beside Joe that can be the guy that Joe trust to score. Hinrich, Joe, Jamal is a good combo as long as Jamal is not playing PG.

BONUS: Do you expect the sale of the Hawks to affect the franchise?

Diesel. Definitely!! More money... More problems... but these will be solvable problems.

[Diesel]

Basketball is about much more than shooting 45% on floaters in the lane while getting your own shot. Keeping the ball moving (meaning wearing out a defense), getting into your offense early, playing solid defense, getting to the foul line are all just as important as being able to get your own shot. Comparing Joe to the real superstars in the league, the biggest difference is being willing to sacrifice your body to get to the free throw line.

I watched Horford get clobbered by Blake Griffin, get up and hit two key free throws. I watched Josh finish the last 20 games of the season icing down his knees before he ever hit the locker room and still he got up to try to block every shot. I see those two throwing their body around trying to guard the guards that Joe and Bibby oley'd into them all year. Constantly smaller than the other team's C/PF, they both relentlessly try to go to the rim on their own iso's and try to draw fouls. Those things are every bit as important as scoring 5 more points a game by getting your own shot. Call them the above average 3 but calling JJ clearly better based on his ability to score 1 on 1 against smaller players doesn't make him clearly the best on the team.

I disagree. We see what we want to see. I have seen many nights where both Smoove and Horf disappears. Smoove actually is the worst. He can shoot us right out of a game. He still doesn't understand that if you're open on the perimeter, you don't have to shoot it. Horf on the otherhand makes some of the biggest disappearing acts ever. Da Bulls? How many times did Horf disappear this year? We speculated on why? Well, Maybe Horf's hurt. Maybe Horf's gf broke up with him? Maybe Horf's daddy told him to protest? The truth is that neither Horf nor Smoove can create for themselves. That's why Joe and Jamal is so valuable. Not just valuable from scoring, but valuable in the sense that teams have to gameplan for that. I have never heard a team say we have to gameplan to stop Smoove or we have to gameplan to stop Horf? You know why? They realize that if they packed the defense in and cover the high post, Smoove and Horf are useless. As far as effort goes... I applaud their effort. However, isn't effort a given? I have never seen anybody give as much effort as Matt Mahoney. M&M was not the best player on the team. Hell, I believe that Captain Kirk gives the best effort than anybody. He runs through picks, screens, and fences... But that effort only translates so much. I swear Kirk is pulling himself off the floor every other play of the game. However, his name is not in this conversation. The reason being is because somebody has to be the target. For 6 freakin years, Joe has suited up with a target on his back. When Smoove and Marvin and Chillz were babies on the court. Joe was suiting up with that target. When the only thing that we could count on was Iso Joe. Joe didn't hesitate to put on that target. So now that Horf gets a Allstar bid because there was nobody else... we want to say that he's better than Joe? Horf... Show me your target!!!!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Great post Diesel.

JJ is the one that teams fear the most. They don't even gameplan to stop Smith or Horford. It's JJ and then Jamal. Having the ability to create and make your own shot on the NBA level is arguably the most important thing that separates role players from stars and superstars.

And people talk like shooting 45% on floaters is easy to do in this league. Most of the league isn't even creative enough to get into the lane to shoot a floater in the first place, let alone make them at a 45% clip.

But you're right Diesel. Until Smith or Horford have a "target" put on their back, with opponents doing everything possible to sto them, JJ will be the most important element on this team.

[Diesel]

Great post Diesel.

JJ is the one that teams fear the most. They don't even gameplan to stop Smith or Horford. It's JJ and then Jamal. Having the ability to create and make your own shot on the NBA level is arguably the most important thing that separates role players from stars and superstars.

And people talk like shooting 45% on floaters is easy to do in this league. Most of the league isn't even creative enough to get into the lane to shoot a floater in the first place, let alone make them at a 45% clip.

But you're right Diesel. Until Smith or Horford have a "target" put on their back, with opponents doing everything possible to sto them, JJ will be the most important element on this team.

Let me add this caveat. If Smoove can muster up his play the way he played in the latter half of the Bull series... and stopped getting punked, I believe that he can be a big factor. We know that Smoove is important because when he goes off the court, we don't do so well, however, Smoove has to mature. He has to not think it's him vs. the crowd. He has to realize that if he follows the teams play, he will be better for it. I know that Smoove gave in to a lot of what Woody wanted and rarely saw the benefit because of IsoJoe.. but honestly, the more smoove stops worrying about Smoove and starts playing for the hawks 1st... the better he will be. In that series, I guess Smoove looked around and saw a rookie leading us into battle. I guess he saw Teague saying I don't care about the crowd, I want to see us win. He may even have noted that guys like JJ were supporting Teague. And when Smoove started playing better team ball, I was proud of him and we looked like a championship team... even with Horf's brokeback mountain routine. If Smoove would get it, I would bus Horf out of town for a real C. Weather it's Bogut or Brook Lopez or M. Gasol. But as long as Smoove doesn't get it, he's the most tradable... and it's a shame because he's the most talented.

[KB21]

It is definitely fiction that the Hawks made the right move in resigning Joe Johnson. Individual scoring has very little effect on the outcome of games, particularly when that individual scoring is very inefficient. The aspects of the game that has much more of an effect on winning is defense and rebounding. Joe Johnson just happens to lack in both. Defense and rebounding are the two reasons why the two most important players on the Hawks basketball team are Al Horford and Josh Smith. Without those two, the Hawks defense immediately becomes among the worst in the league. Al and Josh have a lot of pressure put on them defensively, as they have to cover for the mistakes and lack of defense the perimeter players on this team makes, including Joe Johnson and Jamal Crawford, who plays little to no defense at all. Al Horford is in fact the Hawks best low post and best perimeter defender. That should tell you a lot about the Hawks lack of perimeter defense.

Individual scoring is fine as long as it is done efficiently and you chip in on defense and on the boards.

I might also add that Joe's contract will single handedly keep the Hawks from ever making the jump to elite status. They are paying him as an elite player when he is really only just an above average player and not the most important player on the team. This contract will keep the Hawks from being able to make the kind of moves they need to make to jump to elite status. We won't be able to get that big bodied center that can board and defend in the post the team needs. We won't be able to get that extra perimeter jump shooter the team needs.

Edited August 11, 2011 by KB21