Biggest Loser = Joe Johnson?

[DJlaysitup]

I think the bigger loser would be Marvin. Believe or not, Joe can get a comparable contract if this one gets voided. Marvin probably would not. Also because of Joe's playing style and durability he has more years to recoup money.

Yes...if Marvin's contract is voided he is basically out of the league..no team would pick him up...unless the Hawks re-sign him for 5 years $32 million.

JJ would still make money - just not near as much.

[Eddielives]

Yes...if Marvin's contract is voided he is basically out of the league..no team would pick him up...unless the Hawks re-sign him for 5 years $32 million.

JJ would still make money - just not near as much.

As a backup, I think he would be sought after.

[Diesel]

Not being able to do something in the past doesn't guarantee that you won't be able to do it correctly in the future.

That is loser/quitter mentality which is part of why this franchise hasn't gotten anywhere. This pervading attitude is a big reason why fans both local and elsewhere including players haven't bought into this franchise because the philosophy is "Meh, good enough is just fine."

Fact is the Hawks have done it their way and failed time and time again and then want to cite championship franchises but have zero intention of doing what those guys did to make it because "we sucked at it". The Hawks are going to continue to suck altogether by pursuing a blueprint that has succeeded but once in history.

This years past team got further than we have gotten in the past 30 yrs. The make up of the team and it's major stars were:

Horf, JJ, Jamal, Smoove, and Hinrich. 4 of the 5 were players we traded for. Our own history shows that trading for talent is good. Maybe we get somebody who can draft a player worth a damn. Until that point, we should go with the montra that trading is good and we build that way. What team has drafted their way to the championship?

[Diesel]

Orlando is not trading Howard. At all! It's like Lebron. He makes too much money for them to trade him and they are better off sucking and trying to get Dwight's replacement than doing a stupid trade for guys like Noah and Boozer or Horford and being the new Bobcats. He will either resign or walk.

The problem with this is that Toronto and other teams have more money to spend in 2012 (depending on the cap.). How does Orlando win if he walks? How is that better than getting 2 time allstar Horford and first round draft picks? Have you looked at their team? They're capped out with bad contracts and old talent. Being bad is not going to help them.

[MaceCase]

This years past team got further than we have gotten in the past 30 yrs. The make up of the team and it's major stars were:

Horf, JJ, Jamal, Smoove, and Hinrich. 4 of the 5 were players we traded for. Our own history shows that trading for talent is good. Maybe we get somebody who can draft a player worth a damn. Until that point, we should go with the montra that trading is good and we build that way. What team has drafted their way to the championship?

You are including Smoove as though he was a traded for player when he was a traded for pick that has been a Hawk ever since he was a rookie. Like I said, nobody considers Dirk or Kobe Milwaukee or Charlotte players, they were essentially both Dallas and LA picks.

You are also asking me what team drafted their way to the championship? Good lord, I already mentioned that EVERY team except the '03 Pistons in the history of the NBA won a championship with a player they acquired through the draft being at worst the 2nd best player on their team. Well let me admit that I'm being disingenuous, I stopped looking at 1975 once I'd established the definitive trend but I'm sure you are going to pull some 1960's ABA team out your *ss to say you've disproved the over 20 year trend.

You then are also being disingenuous yourself by not mentioning Teague's (a player we drafted) contributions to our team's "successful" showing in the past playoffs. And while doing this you are willfully omitting that further success from the Hawks will have zero to do with Joe or any player we traded for or will scrape off the discount bin bottom doing anything but making sure he doesn't decay into a lemon right away and more to do with Teague ( a player we drafted) along with the other players we drafted realizing their full potential.

[Joker]

The problem with this is that Toronto and other teams have more money to spend in 2012 (depending on the cap.). How does Orlando win if he walks? How is that better than getting 2 time allstar Horford and first round draft picks? Have you looked at their team? They're capped out with bad contracts and old talent. Being bad is not going to help them.

No big time prospect is leaving to go to Toronto. Average ones barely want to be there.

Orlando loses if Dwight gone no matter what. Orlando attendance would drop from 98-100 to 75-80% and their sales would as well. Horford just isn't a draw. Orlando is better off sucking bad for awhile especially if the NBA had new rules to enter the league as a college Soph and try to land Beal, Drummond, Q. Miller, and one of those guys. They are better off doing that than taking a trade for Horford or Noah/Boozer.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Next move for the owners consist of voiding out all contracts.

Gotta suck for Joe and others.

LOL . . if the NBA voided contracts, that would make all of these guys free agents. And the big market teams would SALIVATE on assembling a team exactly like what you have in Miami. And guess who will be left out? You guessed it. The small market teams.

I would almost bet that the Big 3 in MIA would ALL re-sign and go back to Miami.

Then you'd see Chris Paul, Amare, and Melo take slightly less money to play in NYC.

Then you'd see Boston try to make a MAJOR power move for Dwight Howard, possibly teaming him up with Pierce and Rondo. And i could see KG playing for the league minimum for that squad.

Kobe would take less money for the Lakers to secure a few more pieces. They'd keep either Gasol or Bynum ( not both ), and go right after a guy like Joe Johnson to be that extra perimeter threat. And with LA being an instant draw for free agents, they may be able to get a guy like Steve Nash, who would be desperate to win a title in his final years.

Mark Cuban would be diabolical, by keeping Dirk, but adding a Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook to run with him.

These same owners who want all of these system issues, would be trying to find loopholes out the a**, trying to field their "SuperTeam', And unfortunately, Atlanta would be left with 3rd tier guys like a Josh Smith or a James Harden to choose from. NO matter how many people want to deny it, Diesel is right. Major Free agents have traditionally not want to come here, for whatever reason. I could easily see the ASG overpay to retain Smith or even Jamal Crawford, if all contracts were voided.

And the small market teams would be left out in the cold . . . again . . . but even worse if they did this. What major free agent is going to sign with the Michael Jordan run Charlotte Bobcats, when he was one of the hardliners in this lockout? The same goes for Dan Gilbert in Cleveland. Those franchises will be forced to overpay for mid-level talent, and still end up sucking.

[NineOhTheRino]

Joe Johnson's deal is the worst transaction in Hawks franchise history. Now that's saying something.

[Diesel]

Joe Johnson's deal is the worst transaction in Hawks franchise history. Now that's saying something.

I would say that Jon Koncak's was the worst... followed very closely by Blair Rassmussen, Alan Henderson, Marvin Williams, and Kenny Norman.

You want to judge the contract by what we spent... when you should judge the contract by what we got.

We still got a 5 time allstar who is still putting up good stats and being a well respected player with JJ.

With Koncak, we got a C who couldn't do much but was making more than Pat Ewing (at the time).

With Rasmussen and Norman we got guys who couldn't go.

With Marvin we got a guy with NO HEART.

With Henderson, we got a guy who just wasn't as good as his contract year.

Then there's also Chris Crawford. His contract was 7 years.. based on 1 playoff game.

Kill the hyperboyle with JJ.

You are including Smoove as though he was a traded for player when he was a traded for pick that has been a Hawk ever since he was a rookie. Like I said, nobody considers Dirk or Kobe Milwaukee or Charlotte players, they were essentially both Dallas and LA picks.

You are also asking me what team drafted their way to the championship? Good lord, I already mentioned that EVERY team except the '03 Pistons in the history of the NBA won a championship with a player they acquired through the draft being at worst the 2nd best player on their team. Well let me admit that I'm being disingenuous, I stopped looking at 1975 once I'd established the definitive trend but I'm sure you are going to pull some 1960's ABA team out your *ss to say you've disproved the over 20 year trend.

You then are also being disingenuous yourself by not mentioning Teague's (a player we drafted) contributions to our team's "successful" showing in the past playoffs. And while doing this you are willfully omitting that further success from the Hawks will have zero to do with Joe or any player we traded for or will scrape off the discount bin bottom doing anything but making sure he doesn't decay into a lemon right away and more to do with Teague ( a player we drafted) along with the other players we drafted realizing their full potential.

Uhm.. Had we not traded for Smoove's pick, we would not have had Smoove.

Didn't get your second point.

Teague Looked good against 1 player and 1 player only. In other words, we have to see more.

LOL . . if the NBA voided contracts, that would make all of these guys free agents. And the big market teams would SALIVATE on assembling a team exactly like what you have in Miami. And guess who will be left out? You guessed it. The small market teams.

I would almost bet that the Big 3 in MIA would ALL re-sign and go back to Miami.

Then you'd see Chris Paul, Amare, and Melo take slightly less money to play in NYC.

Then you'd see Boston try to make a MAJOR power move for Dwight Howard, possibly teaming him up with Pierce and Rondo. And i could see KG playing for the league minimum for that squad.

Kobe would take less money for the Lakers to secure a few more pieces. They'd keep either Gasol or Bynum ( not both ), and go right after a guy like Joe Johnson to be that extra perimeter threat. And with LA being an instant draw for free agents, they may be able to get a guy like Steve Nash, who would be desperate to win a title in his final years.

Mark Cuban would be diabolical, by keeping Dirk, but adding a Kevin Durant or Russell Westbrook to run with him.

These same owners who want all of these system issues, would be trying to find loopholes out the a**, trying to field their "SuperTeam', And unfortunately, Atlanta would be left with 3rd tier guys like a Josh Smith or a James Harden to choose from. NO matter how many people want to deny it, Diesel is right. Major Free agents have traditionally not want to come here, for whatever reason. I could easily see the ASG overpay to retain Smith or even Jamal Crawford, if all contracts were voided.

And the small market teams would be left out in the cold . . . again . . . but even worse if they did this. What major free agent is going to sign with the Michael Jordan run Charlotte Bobcats, when he was one of the hardliners in this lockout? The same goes for Dan Gilbert in Cleveland. Those franchises will be forced to overpay for mid-level talent, and still end up sucking.

With no agreement in place, it's moot to talk about how teams will restructure. Point is that there are a lot of players with big contracts. If the owners get snippy, they can void those contracts now and restructure the next agreement so that those numbers are not possible. That was what was already discussed before we got to this point. In fact, if the players decertify, it's a very good way to protect the owners from having to pay those huge contracts in some type of arbitration.