The Death of the NBA

[Gray Mule]

What? No NBA?

Well, if the owners and players can't agree, what do we have? Nothing.

Players are now going to sue the owners, in court, to recieve 3 times

what their annual salaries would be. Why? Because the owners refuse

to let them make a living doing what they usually get paid to do.

With no income, how can the owners pay? If the players win this, the

courts simply take all that the owners have. The players are all very

rich and the owners, who are no longer owners, are without funds.

Then what?

All NBA players can retire in luxury and all the young potential players

can go overseas and play because there's no longer an NBA here.

The fans, the pure nuts, can probably then get the the overseas games

telivised back to the USA.

The London Hawks, any one?

[xhawk]

Players are now going to sue the owners, in court, to recieve 3 times

what their annual salaries would be. Why? Because the owners refuse

to let them make a living doing what they usually get paid to do.

All NBA players can retire in luxury and all the young potential players

can go overseas and play because there's no longer an NBA here.

I think this post illustrates that the players have more leverage than people realize.

But there will be basketball at some point--the NBA won't die. Compared to the last CBA, the player's offer is still a great deal for the owners.

[macdaddy]

I think this post illustrates that the players have more leverage than people realize.

But there will be basketball at some point--the NBA won't die. Compared to the last CBA, the player's offer is still a great deal for the owners.

They are both at fault in my book but to me the owners are the ones doing all the game playing at the negotiating table. How many negotiations ever reach a good conclusion by coming to the table and issuing ultimatums? "Take this offer or else we'll make a worse offer" WTF. That doesn't even make sense.

[niremetal]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out if the union is decertified and/or the entire season gets cancelled. How many players will play overseas? How much will that cause interest in pro basketball to spike in the countries they "adopt" for the season? How will it affect USA Basketball's preparation for the London Olympics?

I wonder what Mikhail Prokhorov is thinking right now...

[Randy]

^{I don't think it will ever get so bad as to kill the NBA. However, doesn't mean there will be a season this year. I do think that some of the owners (probably including the Hawks owners) were pushing to kill the season early on. They seemed to think it worked for hockey. Both sides are being silly. The owners saying "our next offer will be worse" is absurd. No one beleives that, but it might mean "this really is our final offer." As for the players, suing (if they really think that's going to work) may have to wait a really long time for the case to be decided. And if it goes against the owners you can count on a lot of appeals. Look at how long it took to sort out the Belkan mess with the ASG.}

[AHF]

They are both at fault in my book but to me the owners are the ones doing all the game playing at the negotiating table. How many negotiations ever reach a good conclusion by coming to the table and issuing ultimatums? "Take this offer or else we'll make a worse offer" WTF. That doesn't even make sense.

For a recent example of why this makes sense, see the NHL lockout. The players walked away from the best offer from the owners and then ended up taking a worse deal after sitting out a season. I think a lot of NBA owners are happy to go this route.

The whole idea is that you make your best offer earlier because you can get more value if the deal is done earlier. If waiting longer to conclude negotiations lessens your eventual earnings, it makes sense to get the deal done sooner and not simply move higher over time. Of course, you have to time that so you are actually at a critical juncture.

No question the NBA made their last best offer. That is also not unusual in negotiations.

On a personal level I am very disappointed that they couldn't reach a common ground, though.

Edited November 17, 2011 by AHF

[Vol4ever]

Players screwed the pooch on this deal. It only gets worse from here for the players. I cant believe that Hunter and the players have taken the stand to get less revenue. Listen dummies (players) the owners own the league and pay the expenses. If I was an owner I would not budge one inch, as a matter of fact the longer the players keep this up the offer continues to go down.

In regards to the Hawks, we are a totally screwed up franchise, from ownership to the towel boy.

I have been a big fan for over 30 years, so excited in the offseason to see what our team would look like in the fall. Talk trades and draft picks and the potential to move higher in the standings. But, over the last 4 -5 years the Hawks franchise just gets more screwed up and even though they made it to the second round I just dont think they will ever be a contender. Add this strike crap and they have all but lost me.

Sorry for the rant.

[DJlaysitup]

Well as long as they get back to playing before the Superbowl I guess it will be OK...if not I'm going to have to learn the rules to rugby.

[DJlaysitup]

Players screwed the pooch on this deal. It only gets worse from here for the players. I cant believe that Hunter and the players have taken the stand to get less revenue. Listen dummies (players) the owners own the league and pay the expenses. If I was an owner I would not budge one inch, as a matter of fact the longer the players keep this up the offer continues to go down...

Yep...let's face it - except for the ASG - the vast majority of NBA Owners are wealthy independent of their NBA franchises. They can wait it out.

[Randy]

I don't think the ASG needs the Hawks to make a living. It sounds like it been a drag on them. I would prefer richer (much richer if possible) owners, though. I'd like someone in the 1% of the 1%.

[ATLNY7]

They need to think how the fans feel about this lockout. Us fans deserve the right to watch the NBA season from the expected start to the expected finish. They can't be doing this to us. Basketball is my life. I watch the NBA more than any other sport. I probably gotta watch more college basketball now. This is a shame!

[frosgrim]

Yup this was suicide by the league as a collective. There is a very good piece on SI.com by Ian Thompson.

Short of the long: all sides are going to really regret their roles in this debacle. There is plenty and equal blame to go around to all parties. The ultimate outcome will be less revenue and less interest in the NBA.

College ball will be a lot of fun to watch this year. It'll be good to watch a more hungry set of players go at it.

[coachx]

My hope is this pro-longed lockout will lower demand and correct the over priced tix issue.

$80 for decent tix

$120 + for good tix

$8 beer

$10-$20 to park

Give me a break !

People will get used to $8 - $15 NCAA tix, for better seats, with free parking, $2 drinks, $1 popcorn, etc. When the NBA comes back attendance will be low for a while and prices will hopefully drop before the seats fill back up. A little reality check would be great for owners and players both.

Edited November 18, 2011 by coachx

[Randy]

My prediction: No matter how long the strike goes and how much the players give back, ticket prices won't go down. (Except for maybe a few "Welcome back fans" type offers. I guess there have been enough nasty pro sports strikes that the owners must know what they are getting into, and I guess they figure it won't be that bad.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Players screwed the pooch on this deal. It only gets worse from here for the players. I cant believe that Hunter and the players have taken the stand to get less revenue. Listen dummies (players) the owners own the league and pay the expenses. If I was an owner I would not budge one inch, as a matter of fact the longer the players keep this up the offer continues to go down.

In regards to the Hawks, we are a totally screwed up franchise, from ownership to the towel boy.

I have been a big fan for over 30 years, so excited in the offseason to see what our team would look like in the fall. Talk trades and draft picks and the potential to move higher in the standings. But, over the last 4 -5 years the Hawks franchise just gets more screwed up and even though they made it to the second round I just dont think they will ever be a contender. Add this strike crap and they have all but lost me.

Sorry for the rant.

- this is NOT a strike . . this is an owner-initiated LOCKOUT. The owners are the ones causing this work stoppage, by them wanting it ALL . . not the players.

- The failure of the Hawks to get to that next level has EVERYTHING to do with the decisions the Hawks organization made, than current system restraints. We all know what happened in 2005. We all know how the Hawks have historically drafted over the last 25 years. We all know that big time free agents tend to not want to come here, even when we have the cap space to pay them.

- These owners do NOT run their NBA teams like they do regular businesses. Making a profit is not a top priority ( or hasn't been in the past ) for the vast majority of these owners . . until now. Mark Cuban lost money on the Mavs last year, and has lost money for like 6 of the past 7 years. But he doesn't care about losing money, His main goal was to construct a team that could win a championship.

- Players, with their current concessions of going down to 50% of BRI, have already given back 280 million to the owners each year ( if the league makes 4 billion in revenue. With the owners wanting the players to sign a 10 year CBA agreement with an opt out at year 6, the owners will be getting back anywhere from 1.7 BILLION in 6 years to almost 3 BILLION in 10 years, over the course of the CBA agreement.

The owners are duping disgruntled fans like yourself into believing that high player salaries and superstars so-called choosing where they want to play, is destroying the league. That small market teams cannot be competitive in the NBA ( despite San Antonio winning 4 championships in a 10 year span, Oklahoma City on the brink of an NBA title, and the Memphis Grizzlies seemingly right behind the Thunder. )

These owners do not want to admit that the reason why they're losing money has everything to do with them, and little to do with the players. Also, in a bad economy with expenses like gas and jet fuel being a major expense, that may have something to do with owners losing money. Corporations scaling back their entertainment and advertising/marketing dollars when it comes to the NBA, may be another reason why the owners are losing money in this economy.

The owners have successfully won this PR war with the players, in the eyes of the public. They've gotten fans to believe that by not readily taking a 50 - 50 split, they're "greedy", despite everything the players have agreed to give back. They've gotten fans to believe that the system issues the owners want, will promote "competitive balance", when the league has NEVER been "competitively balanced".

How is every team going to find a superstar, or have a chance at one? What is going to compel a guy like Dwight Howard to sign with Charlotte, over a team like say . . Boston . . if both have enough money to pay that player?

The fact is in the NBA . . .

1 superstar > 3 good players without a superstar

1 superstar + 5 good players > 2 superstars + 1 all-star

Basketball is a sport in which the most talented team ( which normally has a superstar or two playing on that squad ) will win a championship. And this is on ANY level of basketball.

But because the NBA doesn't have more than 10 true superstars, there is no way that the league can be "competitively balanced", no matter what the owners try to do. This is not the NFL. Great players will tend to be the ones to win championships . . not necessarily great teams.

[Randy]

My prediction: No matter how long the strike goes and how much the players give back, ticket prices won't go down. (Except for maybe a few "Welcome back fans" type offers. I guess there have been enough nasty pro sports strikes that the owners must know what they are getting into, and I guess they figure it won't be that bad.

I should have said "lockout" not strike. In this case, the lockout is an "owners strike." They have stopped writing checks to players.

[TheTruth]

North, I won't quote your entire post for page length purposes, but I will just say that I pretty much whole-heartedly agree.

Owners are trying to fix their mess with this lockout, and now all parties--especially the fans--will suffer.

Edited November 20, 2011 by TheTruth