FYI - The Hawks Can't Sign Significant Free Agents

[AHF]

A couple of more scenarios/questions - could they solve the problem by trading either Marvin, Kirk or Josh to either a team that is below the cap (so they can take the salary) or one above it that doesn't care?

I would assume you wouldn't trade anyone but possibly Marvin purely for cap space. If that was the case, you would have the exact same scenario as in the Marvin amnesty section which means you would be limited to signing someone with the MLE for up to $5M.

If you are talking about just dumping Kirk for cap room in a similar trade, it works the same way.

If you were able to dump both Marvin and Kirk for nothing, you would have a little less than $10M in room under the cap. I am not sure with this weak free agent pool that there is anyone all that exciting who you could get for that price given the damage we would do to our team's depth but it is an option if you can find someone who wants to take on their contracts.

If you are trading Josh Smith, you are probably going to be taking back actual value. If it is to a team over the cap, the new player has to be within 150% of his contract + $100K after the new CBA passes so you could save several million taking back a lesser salary but that wouldn't do much in the way of allowing us to sign a significant free agent. If you dumped Smith for cap space and picks to a team like Indiana that is significantly under the cap, you could free up around $5M in cap space which also doesn't get you much in the way of the ability to sign a significant free agent.

And can't they always do a trade for a player(s) who makes about the same as one or more of the above?

Of course.

Trades do open up a lot of different avenues but there aren't many realistic scenarios that open up significant cap space for a free agent signing. There are many more possibilities for trades that bring back valuable players but that is a trade topic and not a free agency topic.

[drzachary]

Who is Kurt? Did we sign Kurt Thomas?

Took me a while to realize they mean Kirk Hinrich.

[NJHAWK]

This ownership group will never use the amnesty clause. Im suprised after all the delay with the lockout that this clause is the best nba ownership could get to cut dead weight.

[tomac]

Great explanation. I didn't realize that we could not use the buffer between the cap and LT to sign additional players. That does put another spin on things.

Edited December 1, 2011 by tomac

[Randy]

Looks like we have the same team that won 44 games last year, except we lose Jamal Crawford......

[AHF]

Looks like we have the same team that won 44 games last year, except we lose Jamal Crawford......

Our biggest chances for change are player development (especially Teague) and trade.

[AHF]

As people talk about Jamal Crawford, Vince Carter, signing and trading JC, etc. remember how little room we have under the luxury tax if we don't amnesty anyone (and I don't think we should). For example, we can't S&T JC to the Bulls and get back someone making 4M/year without going into the tax.

[thecampster]

bumping this so it stays at the top and hopefully someone reads it

[thecampster]

We all were warned about this last summer by numerous people, so it shouldn't be surprising. But even though it isn't surprising, it isn't like this situation doesn't suck.

I got called quite a few names for pointing this out last summer. Therapy makes it all better though. :)

[red2play]

We should have never signed Joe Johnson and kept "he who's name shall not be mentioned". We should have never signed Marvin Williams and Zaza Pachula for so much money. or not at all. Never should have gotten Kirk Hinrich either. Teague, Harford and Josh Smith should be our go to guys.

[BrazilianHawk]

yeah, yeah. I remember almost all of us thought ASG made a nice deal in giving those contracts to Marvin, Bibby and Zaza back in the day... some of us have a really bad memory or should have never chosen the Hawks to root for. It is what it is. I'd rather have JJ and his albatross contract rather than be a bottom-dweller of the league.

And I dunno who's this guy Harford you're talking about...

[AHF]

Bibby lost all mobility making his contract ugly. Had he maintained it bit better it would have been OK. If Marvin had continued to progress instead of regress (he had improved every year of his career until he signed his deal), it would look pretty good. Obviously, those things didn't happen and they were officially ugly by last season.

Zaza's contract still looks fine to me.

Edited December 6, 2011 by AHF

[BrazilianHawk]

That's what I'm talking about. Looking in hindsight, we all realize some mistakes were made, but how could Sund know Bibby and Marvin would suck so bad?

When Marvin was re-signed, there was no Crawford to take all the shots. Maybe, just maybe, Marv will evolve into a somewhat decent player again. Bibby was re-signed because he helped the Hawks make the playoffs after 9 years. He still had some game in him. Zaza was awarded what I believe is still a pretty fair contract.

"We should have never..." is very easy to say three years later.

[Joker]

That's what I'm talking about. Looking in hindsight, we all realize some mistakes were made, but how could Sund know Bibby and Marvin would suck so bad?

When Marvin was re-signed, there was no Crawford to take all the shots. Maybe, just maybe, Marv will evolve into a somewhat decent player again. Bibby was re-signed because he helped the Hawks make the playoffs after 9 years. He still had some game in him. Zaza was awarded what I believe is still a pretty fair contract.

"We should have never..." is very easy to say three years later.

People always forget that Jamal killed a lot of our movement last year in the half court offense. They seem to think that Jamal is pure and gold but Marvin dropped in part to Jamal. So did Horford. I really think we only seen Horford at 60% of his true potential. We only seen Marvin at 75% of his potential, I would say less but I think his back might limit him from here on out. We already had ball movement issues before Jamal was here when it was Flip here and Lue playing PG.

I really don't want Jamal back when I really think about it. He does some good but I rather have role players who are smart and can do maybe 2-3 things good over Jamal.