Craw S&T? Huh?

[lethalweapon3]

http://www.hoopsworld.com/bulls-exploring-sign-and-trade-options/

Chicago has been in contact with representatives for Crawford and Afflalo since Wednesday morning, and now the team is “getting creative” as they try to land one of the highly coveted guards. The Bulls will contact the Atlanta Hawks and Denver Nuggets to see if either team is interested in a sign-and-trade deal, and sources believe Chicago will offer a package that includes Ronnie Brewer among others.

Prior to last season, the Bulls attempted to trade for Crawford, but Hawks’ general manager Rick Sund wasn’t interested in moving the veteran shooting guard. Now, Chicago will try once again try to land Crawford, who is an unrestricted free agent. Crawford has also received interest from the Miami Heat, Portland Trail Blazers, New Jersey Nets, New Orleans Hornets, Indiana Pacers and Phoenix Suns among other teams.

?

~lw3

[Joker]

I would love Ronnie Brewer with CP3. In fact Brewer would do well with CP3 like he did with Deron. As would Marvin if back to 09 health form when he lead the Hawks in MPG as well as Horford to an extreme level.

BUT! I don't like Brewer with Chicago personnel and I REALLY don't like him with ours. Too limited on offense to a degree he would be Mario West. His movement is extremely good as a guard on offense but Atlanta is an outside dominate team with no idea of ball movement as a whole which hurts guys like Brewer.

If we had CP3, Brewer value>>>Jamal's. Easy deal. As for now with our personnel, he would just be a clog in the salary cap, pass.

We need to look to adding cheap talent which might be misused with our current personnel like Jamal and Bibby was but cheap.

[Crank]

I would love Ronnie Brewer with CP3. In fact Brewer would do well with CP3 like he did with Deron. As would Marvin if back to 09 health form when he lead the Hawks in MPG as well as Horford to an extreme level.

BUT! I don't like Brewer with Chicago personnel and I REALLY don't like him with ours. Too limited on offense to a degree he would be Mario West. His movement is extremely good as a guard on offense but Atlanta is an outside dominate team with no idea of ball movement as a whole which hurts guys like Brewer.

If we had CP3, Brewer value>>>Jamal's. Easy deal. As for now with our personnel, he would just be a clog in the salary cap, pass.

We need to look to adding cheap talent which might be misused with our current personnel like Jamal and Bibby was but cheap.

Brewer didnt do great with Deron he sucked which is why they got rid of him and tried to bring in someone who could at least make a shot even old Raja Bell.

Brewer then moved onto the Bulls and played with another great one ....the MVP Rose and was still useless besides a few minutes defensively

We would bring him here and it wouldnt take 30 games before people would be wondering why we got him if the craziness of JJ for Paul actually happened .

Brewer is a double team magnet ....whoever he is playing with gets doubled by whoever is guarding him .

[Joker]

Brewer didnt do great with Deron he sucked which is why they got rid of him and tried to bring in someone who could at least make a shot even old Raja Bell.

Brewer then moved onto the Bulls and played with another great one ....the MVP Rose and was still useless besides a few minutes defensively

We would bring him here and it wouldnt take 30 games before people would be wondering why we got him if the craziness of JJ for Paul actually happened .

Brewer is a double team magnet ....whoever he is playing with gets doubled by whoever is guarding him .

Brewer did a great job considering his price tag. The thing is he is not a starter but he's making 4 mil. That's backup money which means he's holds value. Look at this article.

http://bullsbythehorns.com/?p=2280

That offense was not the same. Deron and Rose aren't the same either. Rose is an elite scoring PG, Deron is a playmaker. Completely different. Chicago offense is bigs setting picks for bigs and setting picks for Rose so he can attack the basket. There totally set up for giving their attention to defense and letting Rose carrying the load on offense.

LOL, I like that last statement. Hilarious. I would agree depending on the system. LOL double team magnet. I will have to steal that one from you.

[DJlaysitup]

I know....I know...I'm not smart when it comes to these things...but?...why do you need a s-n-t on an unrestricted free agent?

[Joker]

I know....I know...I'm not smart when it comes to these things...but?...why do you need a s-n-t on an unrestricted free agent?

They don't have the money to sign him outright.

[JTB]

WOW!!! a little shocked that most pointed out brewers weaknesses before his positives then again this is hawksquawk and thats what i known our fans to do but to those who dont know about brewer and is taking all knowledge of his skill set based off above posters let me acknowledge that what they say is true he is a horrible offense player HOWEVER defensively he will improve this team alot. Dude is a great defender especially for a bench player hell his defense is good enough to start when we wanna go small! to compare his defense to mario west is just a horrible way of introducing this player and disrespectful to Ronnie! Again Ronnie Brewer has no offense he cant shoot all he can do is dunk again he CANNOT shoot but when it comes to defense he is up there among defenders he did it with the jazz and he showed good defense last year with the bulls in fact i recall seeing his name on the list early last season for defense player of the year.

Trust me we get this dude LD will simply change this jump shooting offense cause he will instantly know the jumpshot doesnt work for ronnie. But man again gettin ronnie who will improve this defense alongside J smoove and damien wilkins! We Will have a good defense thats for damn sure and the bulls top rated defense will indeed decrease with Jamal crawford on that team!

....this is nothing but a Powerhouse offense w/ terrible defense for a Great defense/ w terrible offense trade! Take it or leave it! and thats the real truth of the deal

Edited December 5, 2011 by JTB

[thecampster]

I know....I know...I'm not smart when it comes to these things...but?...why do you need a s-n-t on an unrestricted free agent?

Because we would get something back for Jamal and Jamal could get more in a contract. It's the win / win scenario.

You don't trade for Brewer to keep him unless you are moving Marvin or packaging Brewer with someone else to fill salary.

[MaceCase]

Brewer didnt do great with Deron he sucked which is why they got rid of him and tried to bring in someone who could at least make a shot even old Raja Bell.

Brewer then moved onto the Bulls and played with another great one ....the MVP Rose and was still useless besides a few minutes defensively

We would bring him here and it wouldnt take 30 games before people would be wondering why we got him if the craziness of JJ for Paul actually happened .

Brewer is a double team magnet ....whoever he is playing with gets doubled by whoever is guarding him .

He was actually very famously traded because the Jazz didn't want to pay luxury tax that season, you know, just like Eric Maynor was and it thoroughly pissed off Deron and led to his eventual trade as well.

[lethalweapon3]

They don't have the money to sign him outright.

aaaaah, I see. Beyond Brewer, what else would we want in a deal? Gibson? Watson? Asik? picks? I figure we would want something at least "in addition to" Brewer (although knowing A$G it'll probably be cash).

~lw3

[sturt]

You also work out an SnT in order to create an advantage over other suitors... ATL, as I understand it, can re-sign Jamal for more money and years... and since Jamal appears to be getting plenty of interest, and since he's practically said outright that he's going to go wherever they want him most, aka, where they'll compensate him most... there's, then, reason to believe that a SnT agreement could become the advantage that the Bulls... or any other team... needs to get something done.

Personally, as I said in another post, I'm more interested to see what the Pacers would do in this regard... It's even conceivable that a blockbuster type of deal could be hatched. They have cap space that also could help us get into some of the bidding on some FAs.

[Guest]

The only reason to do this sign and trade is to get players in return to fill out the roster that can help us now. I would like the s-n-t trade only if we can get the big 7'-0" footer - Omer Asik. (he is a young active big, runs floor and can rebound, with a lil offensive game).

No sense helping Chicago get even better than us if we at least don't get something halfway decent.

[BrazilianHawk]

^ Ditto

[AHF]

No sense helping Chicago get even better than us if we at least don't get something halfway decent.

That is my feeling - particularly since it will be tough to pull off a S&T without going over the LT line. If we genuinely want Brewer that is OK - particularly since his contract is guaranteed for this year and unguaranteed next season according to ShamSports. I wouldn't add 4M in payroll (Brewer) unless we are excited about him, though.

[Joker]

That is my feeling - particularly since it will be tough to pull off a S&T without going over the LT line. If we genuinely want Brewer that is OK - particularly since his contract is guaranteed for this year and unguaranteed next season according to ShamSports. I wouldn't add 4M in payroll (Brewer) unless we are excited about him, though.

True and to the other poster, Chicago is not trading Gibson or Asik.

[coachx]

http://blogs.ajc.com/hawks/2011/12/05/atlanta-hawks-hot-market-for-jamal-crawford/

That means if, for example, Chicago acquires Jamal in a sign-and-trade deal contract that starts at, say, $7 million (a figure that wouldn’t push them past the tax threshold) they would have to send Atlanta at least $4.7 million in salary. Orlando, as a taxpaying team, would have to send Atlanta at least $5.7 million in salary in the same scenario (unless they use amnesty to shed salary first).

This is why it makes no sense to speculate on the Hawks doing a sign-and-trade with Jamal involving teams over the camp unless you also know the Hawks are willing to pay the tax. It’s still not clear if they are going to make that leap.

Since Indiana and New Jersey are under the cap, they don’t have to send out any salary in a trade and so could offer the Hawks a draft pick to facilitate a five-year contract for Jamal. Think back to the Josh Childress trade.

Etc.

• Free agent Jerry Stackhouse and Hawks guard Pape Sy are at Philips for workouts today. I’ll file a report from there later.
  

[sturt]

I realize SnT has to be done (assuming previous rule applies) as a standalone, apart from any other deal. But conceivably, you could do just that and also make a deal sending Marvin or Smoove somewhere, and effectively get some cap relief out of it all. The relief would be relatively meaningless to this season, of course, unless it's Smoove getting moved.

[WraithSentinel]

Hawks need help in the backcourt. Getting someone like Brewer would be a nice addition.

[Kimsey]

Brewer to me is not that much different than Mario. Yes he is the better player and all but not someone you ruin going over the LT and jeopardizing the money you receive for staying under the tax(?).

Asik is someone I can see them including because he is due an extension and somewhat injury prone.

[Joker]

Brewer to me is not that much different than Mario. Yes he is the better player and all but not someone you ruin going over the LT and jeopardizing the money you receive for staying under the tax(?).

Asik is someone I can see them including because he is due an extension and somewhat injury prone.

Nooooo, there is a MAJOR difference between Brewer and West. Brewer has very high bbiq and is an EXCELLENT movement player. Mario West has above average bbiq and has below average movement. Not to mention length and height for position as well. West was never going to be more than a scrub on any team. Brewer can excel on a team with a PG like CP3 or Deron as well as a movement based team like the C. Webb Sacramento Kings.