Can Old men Get it done?

[Diesel]

This is my thought.

What if we pick up Vince Carter Stackhouse on a one year deal ALSO.

Then either let Crawford Walk or SNT him for Picks only.

Here's what we would have:

Teague, Hinrich,

JJ, Stackhouse

Smoove, Tmac

Al, Marvin, Radman, Rolle

Twin, Zaza,Benson

Get the thought that we might target Kyle Korver from Chicago with Crawford?

Smoove asked for it.

Crawford for Korver/Bogans?

[Randy]

I've wondered how long guys can play now. I think Kidd is 39, Nash 37, and Grant Hill 39. Used to be an NBA guy was done for sure at 35, and most didn't make that long. (Except maybe for centers like Kareem who made it to 40 or something.) What's old now? Guess we might get to find out.

[Joker]

The old guys can still play but I don't what to expect from them though.

[Plainview1981]

This is my thought.

What if we pick up Vince Carter Stackhouse on a one year deal ALSO.

Then either let Crawford Walk or SNT him for Picks only.

Here's what we would have:

Teague, Hinrich,

JJ, Stackhouse

Smoove, Tmac

Al, Marvin, Radman, Rolle

Twin, Zaza,Benson

Get the thought that we might target Kyle Korver from Chicago with Crawford?

Smoove asked for it.

Crawford for Korver/Bogans?

Where is the big man Al has been asking for?

Oh yeah, we can't get him because of Joe Johnson's contract. Nevermind.

[lethalweapon3]

Throw in the recent star of Lil B's rap lyrics, James Posey, to the Country for Released Old Men. He's 35 next month and about to get waived by the Pacers.

~lw3

[Diesel]

Where is the big man Al has been asking for?

Oh yeah, we can't get him because of Joe Johnson's contract. Nevermind.

Let's say Joe was Amnestied within the next hour.

Where's the big man that we can get?

Sam Dalembert?

J. Oneal?

Shaq out of retirement?

Come on, if you say something like that, give me some specifics. Otherwise, you're just tooting a horn in a soundproof room.

[Plainview1981]

Let's say Joe was Amnestied within the next hour.

Where's the big man that we can get?

Sam Dalembert?

J. Oneal?

Shaq out of retirement?

Come on, if you say something like that, give me some specifics. Otherwise, you're just tooting a horn in a soundproof room.

The Hawks have NO flexibility because of JJ's contract. Nobody wants him and his declining production in a trade. Obviously the FA class isn't that great, but even if it was we wouldn't be able to do s***. Just like we can't do s*** now because of JJ who does more harm to the franchise now than he does good. We're signing ham and eggers like T-mac, Radman and Stack. Guys that no other teams wants. Just like always. It's not like Orlando would take JJ in a package for Howard... Who wants a 30 year old overpaid SG that has seen his production drop for 3 straight years... Not to mention the number of games he has played in the last 3 years has dropped.... 79.....76.... and 72 last year. High pay, less production and a hint that's about to start missing a lot of games.

[Jody23]

The Hawks have NO flexibility because of JJ's contract. Nobody wants him aind his declining production in a trade. Obviously the FA class isn't that great, but even if it was we wouldn't be able toward do s***. Just like we can't do s*** now because of JJ who does more harm to the franchise now than he does good. We're signing ham and eggers like T-mac, Radman and Stack. Guys that no other teams wants. Just like always. It's not like Orlando would take JJ in a package for Howard... Who wants a 30 year old overpaid SG that has seen his production drop for 3 straight years... Not to mention the number of games he has played in the last 3 years has dropped.... 79.....76.... and 72 last year. High pay, less production and a hint that's about to start missing a lot of games.

I think this post deserves a big AMEN. Spot on.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Jody23

[Diesel]

Obviously the FA class isn't that great,

Here's my point. For the past 6 yrs, there has been a drought on Big men in the NBA. Big men never become FAs until they are used up like Sam Dalembert and J. Oneal and your best out is to draft one or to have enough pieces to trade for one. I would love to trade for Dwight Howard but he's limited in who he can talk to right now. With or without Joe on the roster, we couldn't go out and Sign Dwight this yr or next.

Hots, you have to understand that there is a line between having a team that people want to be traded to and having a team that wins. It's like an equilibrium. The more you win, the more people want to play for you. That's where we are, nobody wants to play for us. So our best hope is to hold on to Joe... Hope that D-12 stays in Orlando. Throw the kitchen sink at Orlando next year, get 1 year with Joe + D12.. then Amnesty Joe after that.

However, you sit here and complain like FAs are knocking at the door and we're turning them away.

There's no FA big out there knocking down our door.

Deke is not walking through that door.

Tree Rollins is not walking through that door.

You're looking at a picture of a Unicorn and complaining because we can't afford one.

Hots, they don't exist.

[Plainview1981]

Here's my point. For the past 6 yrs, there has been a drought on Big men in the NBA. Big men never become FAs until they are used up like Sam Dalembert and J. Oneal and your best out is to draft one or to have enough pieces to trade for one. I would love to trade for Dwight Howard but he's limited in who he can talk to right now. With or without Joe on the roster, we couldn't go out and Sign Dwight this yr or next.

Hots, you have to understand that there is a line between having a team that people want to be traded to and having a team that wins. It's like an equilibrium. The more you win, the more people want to play for you. That's where we are, nobody wants to play for us. So our best hope is to hold on to Joe... Hope that D-12 stays in Orlando. Throw the kitchen sink at Orlando next year, get 1 year with Joe + D12.. then Amnesty Joe after that.

However, you sit here and complain like FAs are knocking at the door and we're turning them away.

There's no FA big out there knocking down our door.

Deke is not walking through that door.

Tree Rollins is not walking through that door.

You're looking at a picture of a Unicorn and complaining because we can't afford one.

Hots, they don't exist.

Won 53 games two years ago, and nobody wants to play here? Play reasonably well in the playoffs last year considering the lack of talent this team has...Nobody still doesn't want to play here? Sorry, if we can't get players after a 53 win season, were f***ed unless we hit the jack pot in the draft. Which isn't going to happen for a few years. Not quite bad enough yet. But It appears we can't do anything... If Al is going to remain at center, we can't even get a really power forward. Josh isn't a really PF. Perhaps Al himself doesn't think we can get a center... If he doesn't, then his plea is a indirect shot at Josh. Either way,.Al asks for help upfront... And what do the Hawks do? They sign Radman. A guy that shouldn't even be in the NBA now. if this is the best the team can do, it's pretty damn hopeless.

Actually... I'll edit this and say I'm proud of how the team played in the playoffs last year for the most part. I thought they did pretty much the best they could..

Edited December 10, 2011 by Hotlanta1981

[volman]

Won 53 games two years ago, and nobody wants to play here? Play reasonably well in the playoffs last year considering the lack of talent this team has...Nobody still doesn't want to play here? Sorry, if we can't get players after a 53 win season, were f***ed unless we hit the jack pot in the draft. Which isn't going to happen for a few years. Not quite bad enough yet. But It appears we can't do anything... If Al is going to remain at center, we can't even get a really power forward. Josh isn't a really PF. Perhaps Al himself doesn't think we can get a center... If he doesn't, then his plea is a indirect shot at Josh. Either way,.Al asks for help upfront... And what do the Hawks do? They sign Radman. A guy that shouldn't even be in the NBA now. if this is the best the team can do, it's pretty damn hopeless.

Actually... I'll edit this and say I'm proud of how the team played in the playoffs last year for the most part. I thought they did pretty much the best they could..

[Diesel]

Won 53 games two years ago, and nobody wants to play here? Play reasonably well in the playoffs last year considering the lack of talent this team has...Nobody still doesn't want to play here? Sorry, if we can't get players after a 53 win season, were f***ed unless we hit the jack pot in the draft. Which isn't going to happen for a few years. Not quite bad enough yet. But It appears we can't do anything... If Al is going to remain at center, we can't even get a really power forward. Josh isn't a really PF. Perhaps Al himself doesn't think we can get a center... If he doesn't, then his plea is a indirect shot at Josh. Either way,.Al asks for help upfront... And what do the Hawks do? They sign Radman. A guy that shouldn't even be in the NBA now. if this is the best the team can do, it's pretty damn hopeless.

Actually... I'll edit this and say I'm proud of how the team played in the playoffs last year for the most part. I thought they did pretty much the best they could..

There's 30 yrs of subpar front office work and uncertainty about the ownership structure hovering over this team. Had we brought in a new owner with deep pockets we would be the cat's meow. Plus, a guy like TMac didn't have to sign with us. I think he wanted to be here. However, guys on their 2nd contract aren't looking to hard at us because they want playing time, money, and good ownership. Joe's contract only controls one of those things and really not that much. Hinrich and Marvin are 16 Million dollars of expendability if the right player came along. But... Deke is not walking through that door.

[Plainview1981]

There's 30 yrs of subpar front office work and uncertainty about the ownership structure hovering over this team. Had we brought in a new owner with deep pockets we would be the cat's meow. Plus, a guy like TMac didn't have to sign with us. I think he wanted to be here. However, guys on their 2nd contract aren't looking to hard at us because they want playing time, money, and good ownership. Joe's contract only controls one of those things and really not that much. Hinrich and Marvin are 16 Million dollars of expendability if the right player came along. But... Deke is not walking through that door.

This certainly hasn't been a very ambitious franchise and I think many players know that. T-mac signed as a backup for the league min on a team that doesn't have a real chance of winning at championship. He couldn't have had many if any actual good offers.

And I'm not saying it's all Joe's fault, but his contract puts a lot of restrictions on this team and for the rest of his career as I Hawk I believe he will hurt this franchise more than help it.

[Gray Mule]

I believe you're both correct. Most, if not all BIG free agents want to go to a team that has a great

opportunity to win it all NOW! They can just imagine themselves with that championship ring.

Atlanta does not fit that description. We're capped out and are not expected to win it all. That's

two things going against us before we start naming names with a BIG price tag.

Has CP3 asked to be traded to Atlanta? How about D. Howard? With those two plus all we have

already, we could be a team to expect everything from. Ain't happening, is it.

In times past, we were not even the desireable spot for those second tier players to come. We

had to wait until there were no more open slots on other team before we were considered. This

has changed. We are having no problem in finding players to fill out our roster. Good players.

Not the great super stars we would like to have but good, solid men who will contribute.

Can these "old men" still play NBA style ball? Most of them shouldn't be expected to play

forty minutes, night after night. Their floor time is limited, usually. But, for a short period of time

on a nightly basis, while the starters rest, they certainly can and will. Remember, we already

have our starters and can't afford those high priced players to replace them.

Yep. You're both correct. We would love to have those great players we can't get. And, we

all know why we can't get them. Too many bad decisions for many, many years continue to

haunt us and will for several years. Or, so it appears.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The Hawks have NO flexibility because of JJ's contract. Nobody wants him and his declining production in a trade. Obviously the FA class isn't that great, but even if it was we wouldn't be able to do s***. Just like we can't do s*** now because of JJ who does more harm to the franchise now than he does good. We're signing ham and eggers like T-mac, Radman and Stack. Guys that no other teams wants. Just like always. It's not like Orlando would take JJ in a package for Howard... Who wants a 30 year old overpaid SG that has seen his production drop for 3 straight years... Not to mention the number of games he has played in the last 3 years has dropped.... 79.....76.... and 72 last year. High pay, less production and a hint that's about to start missing a lot of games.

News flash

Even if JJ's 18 million were off the books, you're still talking about the Hawks payroll being around 50 - 51 million. That will put you around 8 million under the cap, with no options to use things like the MLE to work with.

So what player do we bring in for 8 million that will help us? All of the centers will get around 10 million or more. So who do we bring in?

And another thing . . . there is NOTHING precluding the ASG from using . . .

- the 3+ million trade exception that we received from the Josh Childress trade

- the full MLE on a player

- a partial LLE on a player

Yes, that means that the Hawks would have to pay the luxury tax, but that's what good teams looking to win titles do sometimes.

It's funny how fans blame millionaire players for the spending habits of BILLIONAIRE owners.

[Plainview1981]

News flash

Even if JJ's 18 million were off the books, you're still talking about the Hawks payroll being around 50 - 51 million. That will put you around 8 million under the cap, with no options to use things like the MLE to work with.

So what player do we bring in for 8 million that will help us? All of the centers will get around 10 million or more. So who do we bring in?

And another thing . . . there is NOTHING precluding the ASG from using . . .

- the 3+ million trade exception that we received from the Josh Childress trade

- the full MLE on a player

- a partial LLE on a player

Yes, that means that the Hawks would have to pay the luxury tax, but that's what good teams looking to win titles do sometimes.

It's funny how fans blame millionaire players for the spending habits of BILLIONAIRE owners.

I'd rather have cap room that JJ now. Seriously, JJ has struggled with his shot much of the last two seasons, his overall production is dropping and the number of games he plays in each year is dropping. All signs point to a declining player. Moreover, this team right now is just going to hang in mediocrity for the next few years. This team can't even rebuild.

JJ knows the Hawks aren't going to pay the lux tax, but he will threaten to leave or whatever if he doesn't get the best deal he can get... But also, he expects the team to go out and get more players. NBA players want to have their cake and eat it too. He wants all this money, but he's not a attendance draw and not a top level player. But then these guys expect ownership to "get more help". Fans get on their knees for players no matter what. It's laughable that some of these guys score 17 or 18 PPG and think they should get max contracts AND ask for improvements to the team. Joe had ONE really good month the entire season last year. ONE MONTH.

[Plainview1981]

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/splits/_/id/1007/joe-johnson

Let me remind you of JJ's numbers the second half of the year. I mean, we watched the games and we know JJ sucked last year, but the numbers are pretty damn telling.

Post all-star numbers:

43%FG

26% 3pt

3.8RPG

3.4APG

15.8PPG

Yikes!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hot . . the fact is that we need to be more than just 8 million under the cap in order to give this team the type of makeover that people want. You save that amnesty until it becomes really useful. Hold onto it for about 2 years, then use it on JJ if need be, and be 20+ million under the cap, instead of 8 million.

At that point, you may be able to get an impact player here, instead of a MLE type player that really won't help us much, especially if JJ is gone.

As for JJ's numbers post All-Star break, you better look at the entire team in that aspect. Only Smith didn't see a significant dropoff in production, although his 3 point shooting went into the tank.

And while other people continued to struggle throughout the playoffs, JJ's play did pick up considerably, enabling us to take the Bulls to 6 games. He needed to play better though, since other people's games were going into the tank.

No way you amnesty JJ right now. Do it when you can get maximum value for it.

[Joker]

Looking more likely Arenas will be a Hawk. He has no interest from playoff bound teams. Almost no interest in general.