Colin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Two wrongs don't make a right. So since a gm made a dumb move by offering Kwame Brown $7mill for year we should believe that he's worth it and Zaza's worth that much? Nooo!!! You get out of here! I wouldn't give him that contract NBA2K12. What does being a guard have to do with it? Now ask yourself this, is Zaza in the top 20 in his position? Of this list of players, who's Zaza better than? Dwight Howard Andrew Bynum Marc Gasol Javale McGee Roy Hibbert Greg Monroe Tyson Chandler Al Jefferson Spencer Hawes Marcin Gortat Marcus Camby Joakim Noah Emeka Okafor Deandre Jordan Chris Kaman Samuel Dalembert Tim Duncan Channing Frye Derrick Favors Brendan Haywood Kendrick Perkins Jordan Hill Robin Lopez Joel Anthony Omer Asik Byron Mullens Darko Milicic Timofey Mozgov Jason Thompson Chris Andersen Jason Maxiell Ben Wallace Nazr Muhammad Tiago Splitter Let me go ahead and grab a snicker bar... Take your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Colin Posted January 17, 2012 Popular Post Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Using NBA hotspots thing, Zaza was 20/38 from 16-23 feet in 2009-2010 for 53%. That same year, Horford was 64/139 for 46%. Whoever says he has no shot is a bum, he is shooting 84% free throws this year as well. His poor shooting percentage is always due to his love of getting his own rebounds by missing a couple times first. Fact of the matter is, if Zaza plays with confidence, he is actually a GOOD player (evidenced by how he dominates other NBA players in international play when he is the go-to guy). Zaza has a bit of a shot, a knack for drawing fouls, hits his free throws, offensive rebounds well, plays tough, doesn't back down, and gets under the opponent's skin. If you want more than that from a backup center, you're asking for too much. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EazyRoc Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Two wrongs don't make a right. So since a gm made a dumb move by offering Kwame Brown $7mill for year we should believe that he's worth it and Zaza's worth that much? Nooo!!! You get out of here! I wouldn't give him that contract NBA2K12. What does being a guard have to do with it? Now ask yourself this, is Zaza in the top 20 in his position? Of this list of players, who's Zaza better than? Dwight Howard Andrew Bynum Marc Gasol Javale McGee Roy Hibbert Greg Monroe Tyson Chandler Al Jefferson Spencer Hawes Marcin Gortat Marcus Camby Joakim Noah Emeka Okafor Deandre Jordan Chris Kaman Samuel Dalembert Tim Duncan Channing Frye Derrick Favors Brendan Haywood Kendrick Perkins Jordan Hill Robin Lopez Joel Anthony Omer Asik Byron Mullens Darko Milicic Timofey Mozgov Jason Thompson Chris Andersen Jason Maxiell Ben Wallace Nazr Muhammad Tiago Splitter Let me go ahead and grab a snicker bar... Take your time You cited as his weaknesses shooting and ball handling. I was basically saying those skills dont matter much because he's a big. He's better than about 4 or five of those centers, but I could probably come up with another 20 players he's better than starting with our own roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhay610 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Zaza is the most "heady" player in the league. Z uses his head on the court and is an irritating presence to opposing players and fans alike. He's at the head of the class when it comes to cultural pursuits such as fashion, food and music as well. He's been known to plunge headfirst into his off-the-court endeavors including the opening (and closing) of restaurant/bar/club. He is owner of perhaps the most famous head-butt in franchise history (see KG, 2008 NBA playoffs). As an aside, some would say his head is rather large. Edited January 17, 2012 by jhay610 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Mule Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Quick hands. No one ever mentions the fact that Zaza has been known to steal the ball occasionally with his quick hands. Doesn't happen a lot. Opponents have learned. Don't go to sleep on Zaza. He'll pick your pocket. GO HAWKS! - - - -GO ZAZA!! He's a good back up center Our starter right now, usually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarverC Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, but i definatly know why you feel that way. Some games, it seems he can't even catch the ball. Passes and rebounds go right through his hands, and some of his shots just look horrible, like there is no chance of it going in. Other games, he out hustles everbody and grabs 10 boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthepureshooter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 No, but i definatly know why you feel that way. Some games, it seems he can't even catch the ball. Passes and rebounds go right through his hands, and some of his shots just look horrible, like there is no chance of it going in. Other games, he out hustles everbody and grabs 10 boards. Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three. I think he should spend more time working on his offense. We need him to finish at the bucket. I can't bare to see Twin start another game except for guarding Howard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 17, 2012 Moderators Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three. I think he should spend more time working on his offense. We need him to finish at the bucket. I can't bare to see Twin start another game except for guarding Howard. Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine. If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into: Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds; Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center. That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint. You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine. If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into: Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds; Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center. That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint. You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one. Let me preempt his response here with what I'm sure is coming... "Yeah but you're using stats and math and stuff and that's BS. I'm going off of what I see and that's the real truth." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthepureshooter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Your assessment isn't honest. He is averaging a per36 of 12 points and 10 rebounds this year. And you think he is one of the worst 20 players in the league? That is assinine. If you look at his games you break them out by per 36 minute production into: Great - Game 1 - 22 points, 19 rebounds; Game 3 - 17 points, 13 rebounds; Game 5 - 24 points, 12 rebounds; Game 8 - 17 points, 7 rebounds Fine - Games 2 - 14 points, 5 rebounds; Game 4 - 9 points, 9 rebounds; Game 9 - 10 points, 9 rebounds; Game 11 - 13 points, 8 rebounds; Game 12 - 11 points, 11 rebounds; Game 13 - 11 points, 9 rebounds; Game 14 - 12 points, 6 rebounds Bad - Game 6 - 0 points, 5 rebounds; Game 7 - 0 points, 6 rebounds; Game 10 - 0 points, 11 rebounds; Again, these are per 36 numbers and they break out into 4 great games, 3 bad games, and 7 fine games based on the productivity you would want from your backup center. That is far from the picture of "he hustles 1 game and then screws up the next 3" that you are trying to paint. You are coming off like you are grinding an ax on this one. Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Sothron Posted January 17, 2012 Premium Member Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'll "get real" with you. Zaza is one of the best backup centers in the NBA. Read: BACKUP center. Your list had almost every starting center on it. Well no shinola Sherlock of course he's not going to be better than most teams STARTING center. For someone to be "one of the top 20 worst players" they'd have to be on 10 day contracts or swapping time in the NBDL and NBA. Those are your worst 20 players. Putting Zaza anywhere near that list is flat out laughable. Quick, someone start a "Jeff Teague is in the top 20 worst players" thread because out of 32 teams starting point guards he's not going to crack the top fifteen. THE HORROR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real! You are MISSING the point....YOUR list is a list comprised of STARTERS, Zaza is a BACKUP. When you provide the backup list, with minutes, stats and salaries, then you have something worth comparing. Otherwise you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jy23 Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 So just in case you hadn't figured this out yet from everyone else's response this thread is dumb, and that list u gave is even dumber!!!!! That is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 17, 2012 Moderators Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Let's look at your list of Zaza's comparables for a real life discussion. Starters paid more than Zaza or Not Available to Hawks B/C On Rookie Contracts Dwight Howard - Starter - #1 overall pick - DPOY - All-Star - 1st Team All-NBA - $18 million per season Andrew Bynum - Starter - Lottery Pick; 2012: 17 ppg, 14 rpg, 2 bpg, likely 2012 All-Star - $15 million per season Marc Gasol - Starter - 2012: 14 ppg, 11 rpg, 20 PER; $13 million per season Javale McGee - Starter - Rookie contract; #2 shotblocker in 2011, #1 shotblocker in 2012 Roy Hibbert - Starter - 2012: 17 ppg, 12 rpg, 20 PER Greg Monroe - Starter - Lottery pick; 17 ppg, 9 rpg, 26 PER Tyson Chandler - Starter - Numerous top 10 finishes in rebounding and shooting efficiency; All-NBA Defense; $13 million per year Al Jefferson - Starter - 19 ppg, 9 rpg, 21 PER; $14 million per year Spencer Hawes - Starter - Rookie contract lottery Pick; 10 ppg, 9 rpg, 22 PER Marcin Gortat - Starter - 14 ppg, 8 rpg, 24 PER; $7 million per year (one of the best deals in the entire NBA) Marcus Camby - Starter - #1 overall pick; Career 10 ppg, 10 rpg, 2.6 bpg; $11 million per year Joakim Noah - Starter - Lottery pick - 2011: 12 ppg, 11 rpg, 1.5 bpg; 19 PER; All-Defense; $12 million per year Emeka Okafor - Starter - #2 overall pick; Career 13 ppg, 10 rpg, 2 bpg, 17 PER; $12.6 million per year Deandre Jordan - Starter - Top 10 Shotblocker 2010 & 2011; $10 million per year Chris Kaman - Starter (85% starts over career; 50% this season) - $14 million per year Samuel Dalembert - Starter - Top 10 Shotblocker Every Season / Top 10 Career Among Active Players - $13 million 2011, $7 million 2012 Tim Duncan - Starter - Top 20 Player in NBA History, $21 million per year Channing Frye - Starter - Stretch PF, not a center (http://www.82games.c...PHO11.HTM#bypos) - starts next to Gortat; $5.6 million Brendan Haywood - Starter - $7.6 million, not as productive as Zaza (Z - 6 points on 54% TS%, 5 boards, 14.5 PER - Brenda - 5 points on 48% TS%, 6 boards - 11.8 PER) Kendrick Perkins - Starter - Multiple top 10 in blocks; $7 million per year; 9.6 PER to Zaza's 14.5 PER Jordan Hill - Starter (>50% starts this year) - Lottery pick on rookie contract - Worse PER than Zaza Joel Anthony - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza Byron Mullens - Starter - 13 ppg, 6 rpg, 19 PER, rookie contract Darko Milicic - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; $4.8 million per year Timofey Mozgov - Starter - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza We'll start by doing the easy thing and eliminating all the starters. Zaza is a backup and comparing him against starters like Dwight Howard et al makes sense like comparing Willie Green to Kobe Bryant and the other SG starters makes sense (i.e., it doesn't). Reserves Who Are On Rookie Contracts and Unavailable to the Hawks and/or Who Don't Play Center Omer Asik - Reserve - Rookie contract - Fewer PPG and worse PER than Zaza; better defender Robin Lopez- Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; rookie contract Derrick Favors - Reserve - #3 overall pick - 14.8 PER versus 14.5 PER for Zaza; better defender, not as effective offensively (yet) Jason Thompson - Reserve - Better scorer, worse rebounder than Zaza; rookie contract Jason Maxiell - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; $5 million per year; plays >75% of minutes at PF and less than 10% of team's minutes at center (http://www.82games.c...DET11.HTM#bypos) Tiago Splitter - Reserve - More PPG, fewer RPG and same PER as Zaza; rookie contract We are eliminating these players because they aren't guys Atlanta could have signed as a backup center. What is the point in arguing that the #3 overall pick in the draft would make a better reserve than Zaza? ACTUAL COMPARABLES FROM THE LIST Actual Comparables Who Have Worse Numbers Than Zaza And Are Paid Equal or Less Ben Wallace - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza - 18 total points this season; cheaper than Zaza Nazr Muhammad - Reserve - Fewer PPG, RPG and worse PER than Zaza; cheaper than Zaza Actual Comparables Who Have Arguably Better Numbers than Zaza and Are Paid Equal or Less Chris Andersen - Reserve - Fewer PPG, fewer RPG, better defender than Zaza; cheaper contract So you have identified 3 people who Atlanta could have theoretically signed cheaper than Zaza and he has put up bigger numbers than any of them. The only one with an argument is an argument based on per minute productivity in Chris Andersen. I would trade Zaza for Andersen at their prices so kudos in identifying one player on your entire list that would make a better backup center than Zaza at his price. Edited January 17, 2012 by AHF 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lethalweapon3 Posted January 17, 2012 Moderators Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Willie Green (sorry homie) Jannero Pargo (sorry pal) Jason Collins (sorry buddy) Keyon Dooling Jermaine O'Neal Sasha Pavlovic Corey Maggette Bismack Biyombo DeSagana Diop Alonzo Gee Samardo Samuels Ryan Hollins Semih Erden Austin Daye Dahntay Jones Lou Amundson Joel Anthony Dexter Pittman Larry Sanders Tobias Harris Johan Petro Shelden Williams Damion James Shawne Williams Josh Harrellson Mike Bibby Bill Walker Jared Jeffries Von Wafer Chris Duhon Jodie Meeks Tony Battie James Johnson Linas Kleiza Jamaal Magloire Andray Blatche H.W.N.S.N.B.M. Ronny Turiaf That's the East so far. Lunch break! ~lw3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Oh gosh, we have more statistical analysis again! LOL! I provided the list earlier so who on that list wouldn't be better than Zaza?? You can talk me to death with Per 36 statistics, which doesn't mean much in the real world. Those same statistics gave Marvin and Bibby those horrible contracts. Get real! U provided a list with 95% of them starters.... ur topic says one of 20 worst players in nba.... I say he is better than 100 players in NBA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willthepureshooter Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 U provided a list with 95% of them starters.... ur topic says one of 20 worst players in nba.... I say he is better than 100 players in NBA... First, this isn't my topic. Secondly, I provided the list for the person whom said Zaza was in the top 20 centers in the NBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AHF Posted January 17, 2012 Moderators Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 I provided the list for the person whom said Zaza was in the top 20 centers in the NBA. Who is that person? I don't see any such post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazer Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 http://www.nba.com/news/features/2012-gm-survey/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1 NBA GMs give Zaza an honorable mention as one of the toughest players in the entire league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchman Posted January 17, 2012 Report Share Posted January 17, 2012 Now that's an honest assessment! Yes he hustles and grabs 10 boards one game but then he screws up the next three. Oh...kind of like "Smoove."??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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