In Defence Of: Joe Johnson And The Hawks – Introducing Media Driven Misconception

[indiefan23]

Hey guys, I posted my Hawks article over on Inside Hoops and someone mentioned that it would be appriciated here. I'd love to know what you guys think. If you like my stuff it would be cool if you subscribed/followed and maybe I'll write more Hawks stuff in the future, but it's not neccessary.

I was just watching the Hawks/Heat game a while ago when Chuck/Reggie started to rail on with abject foolishness about the Hawks. I watched it after the fact and found out that I'd already read people from many sources saying th same things. It's odd to find out a source after you've thought it was someone's own thoughts and ideas... but it explains why so many people don't make sense at once sometimes.

Anyway, here is the link. Thanks for reading!

Wally.

http://www.fullcourt...conception.html

Edited February 1, 2012 by Dolfan23
Made link clickable

[Sothron]

Hey guys, I posted my Hawks article over on Inside Hoops and someone mentioned that it would be appriciated here. I'd love to know what you guys think. If you like my stuff it would be cool if you subscribed/followed and maybe I'll write more Hawks stuff in the future, but it's not neccessary.

I was just watching the Hawks/Heat game a while ago when Chuck/Reggie started to rail on with abject foolishness about the Hawks. I watched it after the fact and found out that I'd already read people from many sources saying th same things. It's odd to find out a source after you've thought it was someone's own thoughts and ideas... but it explains why so many people don't make sense at once sometimes.

Anyway, here is the link. Thanks for reading!

Wally.

http://www.fullcourt...conception.html

Extremely well done, I urge any Hawks or NBA fan to read it for a fair assestment of the Hawks/Joe Johnson and the media's laughable lack of accountability.

[indiefan23]

Ah, anyone know why the link doesn't work??? Can't seem to edit so I'll try again.

http://www.fullcourtpest.com/2012/01/in-defence-of-joe-johnson-and-the-hawks-introducing-media-driven-misconception.html

[willthepureshooter]

Really good article! I would definitely read more if you continue to post.

[Admin]

Ah, anyone know why the link doesn't work??? Can't seem to edit so I'll try again.

http://www.fullcourt...conception.html

You have to have 10-15 posts to be able to post links ... protects our users from clicking on malicious links from new members.

Oh and excellent article and welcome to the 'Squawk!

[Plainview1981]

Hey guys, I posted my Hawks article over on Inside Hoops and someone mentioned that it would be appriciated here. I'd love to know what you guys think. If you like my stuff it would be cool if you subscribed/followed and maybe I'll write more Hawks stuff in the future, but it's not neccessary.

I was just watching the Hawks/Heat game a while ago when Chuck/Reggie started to rail on with abject foolishness about the Hawks. I watched it after the fact and found out that I'd already read people from many sources saying th same things. It's odd to find out a source after you've thought it was someone's own thoughts and ideas... but it explains why so many people don't make sense at once sometimes.

Anyway, here is the link. Thanks for reading!

Wally.

http://www.fullcourt...conception.html

It was me that mentioned it.

[LucastheThird]

Great article

[benhillboy]

I could've, and have, posted my opinion that Chuck is a complete moron in terms of NBA knowledge, but most here applauded Coach for showing the team the tape of his commentary, to my surprise and disappointment. Nothing to gain from his or Shaq's opinion whatsoever. I advise everyone to bypass the pre, half, and post-game blabber from TNT. You could use your hour so much more constructively.

Edited February 1, 2012 by benhillboy

[indiefan23]

Really good article! I would definitely read more if you continue to post.

Hey, I won't always be writing Hawks articles, but if it's cool to post links to my stuff here I'd really appriciate that. Building up a fanbase to your blog is a very tough thing to do. :) Thanks for the compliment!

It was me that mentioned it.

Thanks man. I dunno about ISH... that place is a little off and full of trollish kids. But it's 'loaded' with people. Glad you guys like the article so much. :)

I could've, and have, posted my opinion that Chuck is a complete moron in terms of NBA knowledge, but most here applauded Coach for showing the team the tape of his commentary, to my surprise and disappointment. Nothing to gain from his or Shaq's opinion whatsoever. I advise everyone to bypass the pre, half, and post-game blabber from TNT. You could use your hour so much more constructively.

Yep. Chuck pretty much doesn't know anything. I do think he's a big fan, and time to time he gets it right about some things, but if it's not something they're prepped him for he just comes out with the dumbest s***.

[Admin]

Hey, I won't always be writing Hawks articles, but if it's cool to post links to my stuff here I'd really appriciate that. Building up a fanbase to your blog is a very tough thing to do. Thanks for the compliment!

If you write blog posts fairly regularly, I'd say at least once a week, then I'd be happy to add you to the mix of the fansite imports on the homepage. I don't know how much that would increase your readership but it couldn't hurt I'd imagine and it would definitely get you more exposure for Google ranking.

[indiefan23]

If you write blog posts fairly regularly, I'd say at least once a week, then I'd be happy to add you to the mix of the fansite imports on the homepage. I don't know how much that would increase your readership but it couldn't hurt I'd imagine and it would definitely get you more exposure for Google ranking.

If you write blog posts fairly regularly, I'd say at least once a week, then I'd be happy to add you to the mix of the fansite imports on the homepage. I don't know how much that would increase your readership but it couldn't hurt I'd imagine and it would definitely get you more exposure for Google ranking.

Sure, that would be great. Just tell me what I need to do.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Good article . . . but that doesn't make what Charles said not true.

You picked out some comments made in the TNT broadcast of the Miami game. Charles routinely speaks in general about things, and not specifically. But most of the time, his overall premise or thought process is right on target.

“There is no doubt that the team can consistently make the playoffs, but is it worth playing every year for a No. 5 or No. 6 seed and a first-round playoff loss?”

The statement may be factually inaccurate, but it's only inaccurate because he said First round loss . . instead of a 2nd round loss. The long history of the Hawks franchise in Atlanta has consisted of this team finishing somewhere between the 4th and 7th seed, and losing in the 1st or 2nd round. We have NEVER made it to the Eastern Conference Finals while in Atlanta.

Never.

So what Charles is alluding to here is "playoff mediocrity". Some people think that when it's clear that your team can't supass a certain level of winning, that you're probably better off blowing everything up and starting over, even if that means that you lose before you start winning again. If this team loses in the 2nd round again, you'll hear talk again about how this team just can't get to the next level.

Listen I like Joe Johnson he’s a good player, but they’re not gonna get past the first round of the playoffs, they could have got that for 10 million a year.

The perception my most everyone this year ( besides Hawks fans and maybe Chris Broussard ), were that these were going to be your top 4 teams in the East

- Miami

- Chicago

- Boston

- New York

And a lot of "experts" had Indiana ahead of the Hawks. The reasoning for this was the loss of Jamal Crawford, a guy that most people believed was an integral part to our success. Even some Hawk fans fully believed that he was better than Joe Johnson. What the national media and some of our fans didn't realize, is that Jamal's defensive deficiencies sometimes cancelled out his offensive excellence. A lot of times, actually. And when Jamal struggled offensively, it REALLY hurt the team when he was out on the floor, because his defense was still bad.

So keep in context what Chares is talking about here. We'd lost Jamal. We added a bunch of minimum contract players. The jury was still sort of out on if Teague could be a good PG. And our star players ( namely Al Horford ) played so-so in last years playoffs. And most of all . . . most people ( including most Hawk fans ), don't believe that JJ is a legit #1 scoring option.

Combine all of this, and you can see why Charles said what he said.

*****************

The fact is that while Atlanta was struggling with a Lebron and Wade-less Miami team, all of Charles' opinions about the Hawks were somewhat validated in the way they were playing. What should've been a 15 - 20 point win last night, was on the verge of turning into a 15 - 20 point loss, had it not been for Ivan Johnson providing a spark off the bench and waking that team up.

The difference you're seeing in Joe Johnson since Horford went down, is that he feels that he needs to be much more assertive on the offensive end. Like you said earlier, he's not sitting back and trying to get everybody involved. He's getting HIMSELF involved, then getting everyone else going.

JJ's drop in production, especially last year, had everything to do with Drew's "spread the wealth" offense, and JJ's pizz poor 3 point shooting last year . . a shot that really didn't return to him until the playoffs started. If it was due to his hurt wrist, then that was a valid reason for his long ball being off most of last year. This year, the shot seems to have returned to at least his career average.

Understand this though . . . for the Hawks to get to the EC Finals, JJ MUST play better. That means that he may have to go into "hero mode" as benhillboy and others call it, a lot more often. As the main offensive weapon on the team, when this guy has it going, he MUST look to put up a lot of points and take over the game. We saw a glimpse of him doing this in Tuesday night's game @ Toronto.

In the playoffs, superstars usually put their teams on their backs. Charles has routinely said over the years that JJ is a "nice guy", but may lack the "killer instinct". And you know what? He's right. The good thing for us this year, is that we're seeing flashes of that "killer instinct" emerging in JJ. It's just too bad that it took the departure of Jamal Crawford and the injury of Al Horford, for it to start coming ou.

In general though, Charles isn't wrong about what he says about JJ and this team. Maybe not specifically factually correct, but not wrong in general.

********************

Oh . . and the BIGGEST offenders of what you call "Media Driven Misconception", doesn't come from the national media . . it comes from the LOCAL media. Outside of Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham, the Atlanta media does an EXTREMELY poor job of covering the Hawks. After the 1st Miami win in Miami, hardly a word was said about them. But as soon as they lost to Miami without the Big 2 at home, and blew that big lead in Chicago, the detractors in the ATL media had something to say about that.

Even now, when this team is playing very well without Al Horford, people aren't saying much of anything. Al is the guy that was supposed to be the best player on the team, and the glue of the Hawks. So I guess people are in complete shock that we're still winning at a high clip without AL.

Your next article should be on how the local media covers the Hawks, and how that may create the MDM in and around Atlanta that keeps fans jaded about this team.

[CODHAWKSFAN]

Good article . . . but that doesn't make what Charles said not true.

You picked out some comments made in the TNT broadcast of the Miami game. Charles routinely speaks in general about things, and not specifically. But most of the time, his overall premise or thought process is right on target.

“There is no doubt that the team can consistently make the playoffs, but is it worth playing every year for a No. 5 or No. 6 seed and a first-round playoff loss?”

The statement may be factually inaccurate, but it's only inaccurate because he said First round loss . . instead of a 2nd round loss. The long history of the Hawks franchise in Atlanta has consisted of this team finishing somewhere between the 4th and 7th seed, and losing in the 1st or 2nd round. We have NEVER made it to the Eastern Conference Finals while in Atlanta.

Never.

So what Charles is alluding to here is "playoff mediocrity". Some people think that when it's clear that your team can't supass a certain level of winning, that you're probably better off blowing everything up and starting over, even if that means that you lose before you start winning again. If this team loses in the 2nd round again, you'll hear talk again about how this team just can't get to the next level.

Listen I like Joe Johnson he’s a good player, but they’re not gonna get past the first round of the playoffs, they could have got that for 10 million a year.

The perception my most everyone this year ( besides Hawks fans and maybe Chris Broussard ), were that these were going to be your top 4 teams in the East

- Miami

- Chicago

- Boston

- New York

And a lot of "experts" had Indiana ahead of the Hawks. The reasoning for this was the loss of Jamal Crawford, a guy that most people believed was an integral part to our success. Even some Hawk fans fully believed that he was better than Joe Johnson. What the national media and some of our fans didn't realize, is that Jamal's defensive deficiencies sometimes cancelled out his offensive excellence. A lot of times, actually. And when Jamal struggled offensively, it REALLY hurt the team when he was out on the floor, because his defense was still bad.

So keep in context what Chares is talking about here. We'd lost Jamal. We added a bunch of minimum contract players. The jury was still sort of out on if Teague could be a good PG. And our star players ( namely Al Horford ) played so-so in last years playoffs. And most of all . . . most people ( including most Hawk fans ), don't believe that JJ is a legit #1 scoring option.

Combine all of this, and you can see why Charles said what he said.

*****************

The fact is that while Atlanta was struggling with a Lebron and Wade-less Miami team, all of Charles' opinions about the Hawks were somewhat validated in the way they were playing. What should've been a 15 - 20 point win last night, was on the verge of turning into a 15 - 20 point loss, had it not been for Ivan Johnson providing a spark off the bench and waking that team up.

The difference you're seeing in Joe Johnson since Horford went down, is that he feels that he needs to be much more assertive on the offensive end. Like you said earlier, he's not sitting back and trying to get everybody involved. He's getting HIMSELF involved, then getting everyone else going.

JJ's drop in production, especially last year, had everything to do with Drew's "spread the wealth" offense, and JJ's pizz poor 3 point shooting last year . . a shot that really didn't return to him until the playoffs started. If it was due to his hurt wrist, then that was a valid reason for his long ball being off most of last year. This year, the shot seems to have returned to at least his career average.

Understand this though . . . for the Hawks to get to the EC Finals, JJ MUST play better. That means that he may have to go into "hero mode" as benhillboy and others call it, a lot more often. As the main offensive weapon on the team, when this guy has it going, he MUST look to put up a lot of points and take over the game. We saw a glimpse of him doing this in Tuesday night's game @ Toronto.

In the playoffs, superstars usually put their teams on their backs. Charles has routinely said over the years that JJ is a "nice guy", but may lack the "killer instinct". And you know what? He's right. The good thing for us this year, is that we're seeing flashes of that "killer instinct" emerging in JJ. It's just too bad that it took the departure of Jamal Crawford and the injury of Al Horford, for it to start coming ou.

In general though, Charles isn't wrong about what he says about JJ and this team. Maybe not specifically factually correct, but not wrong in general.

********************

Oh . . and the BIGGEST offenders of what you call "Media Driven Misconception", doesn't come from the national media . . it comes from the LOCAL media. Outside of Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham, the Atlanta media does an EXTREMELY poor job of covering the Hawks. After the 1st Miami win in Miami, hardly a word was said about them. But as soon as they lost to Miami without the Big 2 at home, and blew that big lead in Chicago, the detractors in the ATL media had something to say about that.

Even now, when this team is playing very well without Al Horford, people aren't saying much of anything. Al is the guy that was supposed to be the best player on the team, and the glue of the Hawks. So I guess people are in complete shock that we're still winning at a high clip without AL.

Your next article should be on how the local media covers the Hawks, and how that may create the MDM in and around Atlanta that keeps fans jaded about this team.

^^^^^^^^^^ Nail on the head (especially the bold). If I could shake your hand for this post I would.

Edited February 2, 2012 by CODHAWKSFAN

[AHF]

This article isn't bad but I have to start questioning potential bias when I read this:

2010: Beat a very resilient Bucks team that had the official “team no one wants to play” status. They were totally legit. Then got flattened by the Magic. They lacked any way to compete with Dwight going positively, utterly ape s*** on them. Dwight shot 84% in that series and opened with 12, 17 and 16 rebound games with 10, 18 and 18 free throw attempts. The only recourse they had to compete was to foul Dwight every time he got the ball. Expectations met.

What the #*$&#? The Hawks barely beat a Bucks team that was utterly outclassed and should have been swept. They weren't legit. They had no frontcourt and their backcourt didn't even shoot 40% from the field. That was not a good team. It was Woody getting destroyed by Skiles.

Then the Hawks as the #3 seed lost the worst series in NBA history to the #2 seed. Worse than any #1 v. #8 matchup in NBA history.

If these things met your expectations, you had dramatically low expectations for the Hawks.

Edited February 3, 2012 by AHF

[indiefan23]

Good article . . . but that doesn't make what Charles said not true.

You picked out some comments made in the TNT broadcast of the Miami game. Charles routinely speaks in general about things, and not specifically. But most of the time, his overall premise or thought process is right on target.

“There is no doubt that the team can consistently make the playoffs, but is it worth playing every year for a No. 5 or No. 6 seed and a first-round playoff loss?”

The statement may be factually inaccurate, but it's only inaccurate because he said First round loss . . instead of a 2nd round loss. The long history of the Hawks franchise in Atlanta has consisted of this team finishing somewhere between the 4th and 7th seed, and losing in the 1st or 2nd round. We have NEVER made it to the Eastern Conference Finals while in Atlanta.

Never.

So what Charles is alluding to here is "playoff mediocrity". Some people think that when it's clear that your team can't supass a certain level of winning, that you're probably better off blowing everything up and starting over, even if that means that you lose before you start winning again. If this team loses in the 2nd round again, you'll hear talk again about how this team just can't get to the next level.

Really? I don't think it's on target at all. Going out respectfully to teams like the champion Celtics or last year's awesome Bulls teams is not playoff mediocrity. I've never undestood why people think making this or that round of the playoffs is a measure of how good you are. You land in a bracket and match up with teams. Atlanta performed well vs most everyone they played but couldn't compete with the very best contender teams in the league. Taking the Celtics to 7 is not mediocre. Thing is, Charles is not alluding to anything other then his lack of credibility. He just jumps on the wagon of wahtever is popular to say and people listen to him cuz he's a star. Sometimes he's right, and often he's wrong.

Listen I like Joe Johnson he’s a good player, but they’re not gonna get past the first round of the playoffs, they could have got that for 10 million a year.

The perception my most everyone this year ( besides Hawks fans and maybe Chris Broussard ), were that these were going to be your top 4 teams in the East

- Miami

- Chicago

- Boston

- New York

And a lot of "experts" had Indiana ahead of the Hawks. The reasoning for this was the loss of Jamal Crawford, a guy that most people believed was an integral part to our success. Even some Hawk fans fully believed that he was better than Joe Johnson. What the national media and some of our fans didn't realize, is that Jamal's defensive deficiencies sometimes cancelled out his offensive excellence. A lot of times, actually. And when Jamal struggled offensively, it REALLY hurt the team when he was out on the floor, because his defense was still bad.

So keep in context what Chares is talking about here. We'd lost Jamal. We added a bunch of minimum contract players. The jury was still sort of out on if Teague could be a good PG. And our star players ( namely Al Horford ) played so-so in last years playoffs. And most of all . . . most people ( including most Hawk fans ), don't believe that JJ is a legit #1 scoring option.

Combine all of this, and you can see why Charles said what he said.

Not really. Charles said what he said because he thought the team was old and broken down when everyone is about 25. He said what he said because he felt Phoenix's system inflated how good Joe looks when his best numbers absolutly come from playing on the Hawks.

The fact is that while Atlanta was struggling with a Lebron and Wade-less Miami team, all of Charles' opinions about the Hawks were somewhat validated in the way they were playing. What should've been a 15 - 20 point win last night, was on the verge of turning into a 15 - 20 point loss, had it not been for Ivan Johnson providing a spark off the bench and waking that team up.

The difference you're seeing in Joe Johnson since Horford went down, is that he feels that he needs to be much more assertive on the offensive end. Like you said earlier, he's not sitting back and trying to get everybody involved. He's getting HIMSELF involved, then getting everyone else going.

JJ's drop in production, especially last year, had everything to do with Drew's "spread the wealth" offense, and JJ's pizz poor 3 point shooting last year . . a shot that really didn't return to him until the playoffs started. If it was due to his hurt wrist, then that was a valid reason for his long ball being off most of last year. This year, the shot seems to have returned to at least his career average.

I think it was totally his wrist. And while they maybe could have played better vs Miami, I think you've got to be realistic. Chris Bosh is a really talented player. Haslem is a super legit player. Shane Battier is a guy you can absolutly go to war with. Mario Chalmers is very decent and stepped up to have a great game. Atlanta had just beat them with Wade/James in the lineup and Miami came out playing for revenge.

Understand this though . . . for the Hawks to get to the EC Finals, JJ MUST play better. That means that he may have to go into "hero mode" as benhillboy and others call it, a lot more often. As the main offensive weapon on the team, when this guy has it going, he MUST look to put up a lot of points and take over the game. We saw a glimpse of him doing this in Tuesday night's game @ Toronto.

In the playoffs, superstars usually put their teams on their backs. Charles has routinely said over the years that JJ is a "nice guy", but may lack the "killer instinct". And you know what? He's right. The good thing for us this year, is that we're seeing flashes of that "killer instinct" emerging in JJ. It's just too bad that it took the departure of Jamal Crawford and the injury of Al Horford, for it to start coming ou.

In general though, Charles isn't wrong about what he says about JJ and this team. Maybe not specifically factually correct, but not wrong in general.

I don't really agree. I think players who win in the playoffs routinely come from the most stacked teams. Atlanta is developing a lot but they lost in the playoffs cuz they didn't have the horses, not some mentality problem from Joe Johnson. When your opinions are not based on facts it really does tend to happen that your ideas are wrong.

Oh . . and the BIGGEST offenders of what you call "Media Driven Misconception", doesn't come from the national media . . it comes from the LOCAL media. Outside of Hawks beat writer Michael Cunningham, the Atlanta media does an EXTREMELY poor job of covering the Hawks. After the 1st Miami win in Miami, hardly a word was said about them. But as soon as they lost to Miami without the Big 2 at home, and blew that big lead in Chicago, the detractors in the ATL media had something to say about that.

Even now, when this team is playing very well without Al Horford, people aren't saying much of anything. Al is the guy that was supposed to be the best player on the team, and the glue of the Hawks. So I guess people are in complete shock that we're still winning at a high clip without AL.

Your next article should be on how the local media covers the Hawks, and how that may create the MDM in and around Atlanta that keeps fans jaded about this team.

That could totally be the case. I feel bad for the Hawks. It's a smaller market team with great players. They had to overpay JJ. They messed up a draft or two that could have totally made them elite and everyone is blaming all the wrong people. The fact is they're an above average team who never get credit for it. After 4 games with Chicago last year no one knew who was going to win that series but people will only talk about it as if it was a loss for the team cuz they didn't win a ring or make the ECF or wahtever. I don't get it.

This article isn't bad but I have to start questioning potential bias when I read this:

What the #*$&#? The Hawks barely beat a Bucks team that was utterly outclassed and should have been swept. They weren't legit. They had no frontcourt and their backcourt didn't even shoot 40% from the field. That was not a good team. It was Woody getting destroyed by Skiles.

Then the Hawks as the #3 seed lost the worst series in NBA history to the #2 seed. Worse than any #1 v. #8 matchup in NBA history.

If these things met your expectations, you had dramatically low expectations for the Hawks.

? I liked that Bucks team. A lot. Exactly how is having the best defensive team in the league mean you're not legit? ;0 That as a great series... I think you're selling yourself short.

[AHF]

Really? I don't think it's on target at all. Going out respectfully to teams like the champion Celtics or last year's awesome Bulls teams is not playoff mediocrity. I've never undestood why people think making this or that round of the playoffs is a measure of how good you are. You land in a bracket and match up with teams. Atlanta performed well vs most everyone they played but couldn't compete with the very best contender teams in the league. Taking the Celtics to 7 is not mediocre. Thing is, Charles is not alluding to anything other then his lack of credibility. He just jumps on the wagon of wahtever is popular to say and people listen to him cuz he's a star. Sometimes he's right, and often he's wrong.

Not really. Charles said what he said because he thought the team was old and broken down when everyone is about 25. He said what he said because he felt Phoenix's system inflated how good Joe looks when his best numbers absolutly come from playing on the Hawks.

I think it was totally his wrist. And while they maybe could have played better vs Miami, I think you've got to be realistic. Chris Bosh is a really talented player. Haslem is a super legit player. Shane Battier is a guy you can absolutly go to war with. Mario Chalmers is very decent and stepped up to have a great game. Atlanta had just beat them with Wade/James in the lineup and Miami came out playing for revenge.

I don't really agree. I think players who win in the playoffs routinely come from the most stacked teams. Atlanta is developing a lot but they lost in the playoffs cuz they didn't have the horses, not some mentality problem from Joe Johnson. When your opinions are not based on facts it really does tend to happen that your ideas are wrong.

That could totally be the case. I feel bad for the Hawks. It's a smaller market team with great players. They had to overpay JJ. They messed up a draft or two that could have totally made them elite and everyone is blaming all the wrong people. The fact is they're an above average team who never get credit for it. After 4 games with Chicago last year no one knew who was going to win that series but people will only talk about it as if it was a loss for the team cuz they didn't win a ring or make the ECF or wahtever. I don't get it.

? I liked that Bucks team. A lot. Exactly how is having the best defensive team in the league mean you're not legit? ;0 That as a great series... I think you're selling yourself short.

I think you might be remembering a healthier version of that Bucks team. Here is who they were in order of playoff ppg:

Brandon Jennings sub 41% fg%, sub .500 ts%, 3.6 apg

John Salmons sub 41% fg%

Carlos Delfino sub 37% fg%, 2.6 apg

Ersan Ilyasova less than 10 ppg, less than 8 rpg, 0.4 apg, series total: 1 block

Luc Mbah a Moute less than 10 ppg, less than 6 rpg, 0.7 apg, series total: 0 blocks

Luke Ridnour less than 2 rpg, less than 2 apg, poor defender

Jerry Stackhouse sub 33% fg% - done

Kurt Thomas 5.4 ppg, 0.5 bpg

Dan Gadzuric barely 10 mpg, 3 ppg & rpg

Primo Brezec, Royal Ivey, Charlie Bell - Barely played

In short - there was no big rebounder, no shot blocker, and no length on that team to stop Josh and Al from operating inside -- if we were aggressive about taking it inside (which, of course, Woody wouldn't do). Their perimeter guards were all outplayed by their Atlanta counterparts. They lost 2 of their top 5 players (by PER), in Bogut and Hakim Warrick that season; we were up 2-0; and we still barely showed up enough to beat them in a game 7.

That was an embarrassment of a showing by Atlanta. That Bucks team was one of the least talented teams in playoff history and we did not show up well against them.

Not suprisingly, the Bucks had a losing record without Bogut that season. We played them without Bogut.

[indiefan23]

Hey, how do I add my site to th e fan imports or whatever? I'd totally like to do that. Cheers!

[indiefan23]

I think you might be remembering a healthier version of that Bucks team. Here is who they were in order of playoff ppg:

Brandon Jennings sub 41% fg%, sub .500 ts%, 3.6 apg

John Salmons sub 41% fg%

Carlos Delfino sub 37% fg%, 2.6 apg

Ersan Ilyasova less than 10 ppg, less than 8 rpg, 0.4 apg, series total: 1 block

Luc Mbah a Moute less than 10 ppg, less than 6 rpg, 0.7 apg, series total: 0 blocks

Luke Ridnour less than 2 rpg, less than 2 apg, poor defender

Jerry Stackhouse sub 33% fg% - done

Kurt Thomas 5.4 ppg, 0.5 bpg

Dan Gadzuric barely 10 mpg, 3 ppg & rpg

Primo Brezec, Royal Ivey, Charlie Bell - Barely played

In short - there was no big rebounder, no shot blocker, and no length on that team to stop Josh and Al from operating inside -- if we were aggressive about taking it inside (which, of course, Woody wouldn't do). Their perimeter guards were all outplayed by their Atlanta counterparts. They lost 2 of their top 5 players (by PER), in Bogut and Hakim Warrick that season; we were up 2-0; and we still barely showed up enough to beat them in a game 7.

That was an embarrassment of a showing by Atlanta. That Bucks team was one of the least talented teams in playoff history and we did not show up well against them.

Not suprisingly, the Bucks had a losing record without Bogut that season. We played them without Bogut.

Ahh... no, I think you're selling yourself short. It's very easy to bring up things like shooting percentages and slam those bucks, but Jerry Stackhouse was a gamer and played great in that series. So did Brandon Jennings. And even without Bogut they were an amazing defensive team. A'Moute you list like he's a liability except he's one of the best peremiter defenders in the league. I think you're taking away from the Bucks achievement that season

. Losing Bogut ruined their dark horse chances, but didn't make them pushovers. They finished the season strong going 14/6 over their last 20 with wins vs Boston (twice), Indiana, Denver, a split with atlanta, Memphis, Chicago and Philly. The worst playoff team ever? Dear god, that's hardly accurate. That, and the Bucks won games with Brandon Jennings going insane on them to lift his team. s*** happens and that was no embarrassment. The Bucks were totally for real.

[Admin]

Hey, how do I add my site to th e fan imports or whatever? I'd totally like to do that. Cheers!

You need to have an XML / RSS feed of your site, which most blog sites have so you shouldn't have to worry about that. Just PM that to me and I will check it out and make sure that you have enough content to warrant being added because it does take some time for me to get it added and I don't want to do that unless you're coming up with at least 1 good article a week, preferrably more.

[01d0rd3r]

I could've, and have, posted my opinion that Chuck is a complete moron in terms of NBA knowledge, but most here applauded Coach for showing the team the tape of his commentary, to my surprise and disappointment. Nothing to gain from his or Shaq's opinion whatsoever. I advise everyone to bypass the pre, half, and post-game blabber from TNT. You could use your hour so much more constructively.

Nobody was calling on chuck to come and coach them team. The point was that anybody that watched that game could plainly see that the Hawks did no take this heat team seriously, and they didnt seem to care if they won or lost. Chuck blasted the team, rightfully so, on nationally television and was just saying what everyone already saw. The point of showing them that tape was not so they would take advice from chuck but hoping they would be embarrased enough by that performance to come out and play with some fire. I want to point out that this strategy worked because we promptly came and and destroyed "The best team in the league" bulls.