Sorry, but the Dwight delusion must end

[ATL_BALLER]

Sweet Diesel, this has gotten out of hand (and using a misleading subject line to post writer speculation? come on, guy!)

I hate to be the downer, but the sobering truth (we all know) remains:

*Gearon and co. lack the creativity and cajones to pull off anything this significant. A Hinrich-esque-slightly-above-lateral move is the most we can expect

*Dwight does not want to play here, period. It's about market for him, in addtion to playing for winning ownership. It does speak volumes about the ASG that Dwight once dreamed of donning the blue-and-red but now wants no part

*Josh would not convince him to stay - he wants out himself - and teaming with Dwight for a few weeks is not likely to change a stance 7 years in the making.

*I sincerely doubt the Magic deal Dwight to a division rival - even if the haul was nice and the chances of Dwight leaving us significant.

I know it's fun to dream and post fantasy scenarios, but after all we've been through with this current culture, what makes you think Dwight is even remotely possible?

[plskeepbibby]

Sweet Diesel, this has gotten out of hand (and using a misleading subject line to post writer speculation? come on, guy!)

I hate to be the downer, but the sobering truth (we all know) remains:

*Gearon and co. lack the creativity and cajones to pull off anything this significant. A Hinrich-esque-slightly-above-lateral move is the most we can expect

*Dwight does not want to play here, period. It's about market for him, in addtion to playing for winning ownership. It does speak volumes about the ASG that Dwight once dreamed of donning the blue-and-red but now wants no part

*Josh would not convince him to stay - he wants out himself - and teaming with Dwight for a few weeks is not likely to change a stance 7 years in the making.

*I sincerely doubt the Magic deal Dwight to a division rival - even if the haul was nice and the chances of Dwight leaving us significant.

I know it's fun to dream and post fantasy scenarios, but after all we've been through with this current culture, what makes you think Dwight is even remotely possible?

This. Pipe dreams are fun but this time next the hawks will look similar to their current construction.

[ATL_BALLER]

Oh, and I forgot to add:

*Our primary trade chip is out for the season. The Magic are in the thick of things, and I don't see them baling on this year, especially with an 85-year-old owner who's shown no interest in rebuilding

[Randy]

I agree completely. So far the best deals I've heard are Marvin to Cleveland and Kirk to LA. I'd be happy if just one happened.

[benhillboy]

I've never heard us on his wish list of 25 teams. I think he mentioned a D-League team, but never us.

[Wretch]

For the record, I'm drinking the Diesel Kool-Aid.

I put no weight into what Dwight wants. It's whether or not Orlando and Atlanta are willing to make a deal. I don't know if our management has the balls to do it, but it don't take rocket science to see that just MAKING this kind of move is the kind of shot in the arm Atlanta needs. Orlando is going to lose him for nothing if he walks. If faced with that, they'll entertain offers and they'll pull the trigger no matter where he ends up. They'll take the best deal and I don't really see a better rental deal than what we can put on the table.

Beyond all that...at some point, we have to dump the defeated attitude and let go of mediocrity. f*** getting to the playoffs. If I'm Hawks management, I say f*** getting to the playoffs too.

It's not time to go big or go home. It is simply time to go big, because we have been going home for the entirety of my Hawks fandom.

[Admin]

For the record, I'm drinking the Diesel Kool-Aid.

I put no weight into what Dwight wants. It's whether or not Orlando and Atlanta are willing to make a deal. I don't know if our management has the balls to do it, but it don't take rocket science to see that just MAKING this kind of move is the kind of shot in the arm Atlanta needs. Orlando is going to lose him for nothing if he walks. If faced with that, they'll entertain offers and they'll pull the trigger no matter where he ends up. They'll take the best deal and I don't really see a better rental deal than what we can put on the table.

Beyond all that...at some point, we have to dump the defeated attitude and let go of mediocrity. f*** getting to the playoffs. If I'm Hawks management, I say f*** getting to the playoffs too.

It's not time to go big or go home. It is simply time to go big, because we have been going home for the entirety of my Hawks fandom.

How big are you willing to go? Are you willing to trade Horford AND Smith to get Howard?

[Wretch]

How big are you willing to go? Are you willing to trade Horford AND Smith to get Howard?

No. I've already said that. That really accomplishes nothing in a rental scenario. I'd just as soon deal them for picks.

But both of them.......for a resigned Dwight?

...hmmm.

Would you? lol

Speaking hypothetically that is.

[Admin]

No. I've already said that. That really accomplishes nothing in a rental scenario. I'd just as soon deal them for picks.

But both of them.......for a resigned Dwight?

...hmmm.

Would you? lol

Speaking hypothetically that is.

To me that's what you have to figure out is where the "Going Big" line is drawn. I think that if you deal Smith you can forget about Dwight staying long term, but if you don't offer Smith along with Horford the Magic probably won't make the deal. The Magic are saying they want a Carmelo type of haul with young promising players and draft picks and that they won't take on any long term salary commitments, so that automatically means no to including JJ. So for me, I'm not giving them Smith and Horford, although I'd strongly consider giving them Teague along with Horford and Hinrich plus a couple of 1sts, under the promise that Howard signs a long term deal. Then you go and make that Sessions for Marvin deal so that we'd have someone to start at PG and then I don't know what but we'd have to figure out something to do for SF.

[Diesel]

To me that's what you have to figure out is where the "Going Big" line is drawn. I think that if you deal Smith you can forget about Dwight staying long term, but if you don't offer Smith along with Horford the Magic probably won't make the deal. The Magic are saying they want a Carmelo type of haul with young promising players and draft picks and that they won't take on any long term salary commitments, so that automatically means no to including JJ. So for me, I'm not giving them Smith and Horford, although I'd strongly consider giving them Teague along with Horford and Hinrich plus a couple of 1sts, under the promise that Howard signs a long term deal. Then you go and make that Sessions for Marvin deal so that we'd have someone to start at PG and then I don't know what but we'd have to figure out something to do for SF.

Back to my KOOL AID.. Oh Yeah...

Horf/Marvin/Hinrich for Dwight/Turk works.

Now they can do something special like send Nelson to LAL for picks and a TPE or Hinrich for that matter

but

in that proposed trade, they get two young players with experience: Horf/Marvin.

They get out of Turk's contract.

They get some cap space.

I haven't seen a whole lot better offered to them. Especially not as a rental.

Let's face the facts... Orlando's job right now is to hype the team up and to make Dwight seem like you're getting Jesus in Sneakers... Even though it's really just a rental. Because it's a rental, we have limits and those limits are that we can't send two of our stars. Not for a rental. We do them a favor by taking their albatrose. For the rental. We both would gladly watch Dwight walk out on them in the offseason... However, Otis is not a fool. He don't want to sit through the press conference when Dwight decides to take his talent to NJ or Dallas and Orlando has memories. They will do a Horf deal.

Whataboutus?

We will take the rental. Unlike Orlando, we have never been out of the 2nd round. Our city cares less about the Hawks than they do the Flames or the Chiefs. If anybody need Dwight, it's us.

Luther Vandrose the great balladeer song a song called "If Only for one night.". In the song he says "It will be so right.. If Only for one night."

When you look at the mediocrity and the future mediocrity that this team sits in wait for... If Only for one night should be our theme song. Or one shot at the crown. We need this! When it's over, if he doesn't want to stay... we part ways and hopefully, we can SNT him for Jordan/Mo WIlliams. If not, then at least we tried to change our perspective one time in the misery that is Hawks basketball.

[Wretch]

I'd pull the trigger on pretty much any deal that gets us Dwight re-signed. Wouldn't even think twice about it because he's the kind of legitimate talent that you can build around. No way he re-signs with a skeleton crew though, so that's not really worth talking about.

I'd go as far as Horford for a rental, but I wouldn't break the bank on it. If we had the kind of interest from Dwight that Melo had in NY/NJ...absolutely. Yes, Melo is a franchise talent and a name you can bank on...but there's not a team in the league that makes a talent heavy deal like that without a guarantee. From a talent perspective, there's no point in bringing him here if you're dealing away 2 of your top 3 scorers. From a marketing perspective, you can't throw away the opportunity to pair Smoove and Howard. Looking at the long term, I couldn't see myself throwing Teague into the mix for a rental either. I can live with a legitimate title shot and then losing Dwight...while knowing that we gave up Horf. If Dwight leaves, and so too Smoove more than likey, we'd be better off with Teague for rebuilding (either to keep or trade) Anyone else is fair game though.

[Vol4ever]

Believe it or not the discussions involving a D12 trade have been ongoing for a while. Josh with his hint of wanting a trade in public is a push for the Hawks to get D12 here. The issue will be with Josh staying here if the deal is made the Hawks will be in if the tax situation. The Hawks have by far the most to offer the Magic. Orlando wants Horf and will make the trade if the Hawks will do it. Orlando will lose Dwight if they dont get a trade done by the deadline. The Hawks will not make a blockbuster trade other than D12.

[Admin]

Believe it or not the discussions involving a D12 trade have been ongoing for a while. Josh with his hint of wanting a trade in public is a push for the Hawks to get D12 here. The issue will be with Josh staying here if the deal is made the Hawks will be in if the tax situation. The Hawks have by far the most to offer the Magic. Orlando wants Horf and will make the trade if the Hawks will do it. Orlando will lose Dwight if they dont get a trade done by the deadline. The Hawks will not make a blockbuster trade other than D12.

Are these your opinion or are you speaking factually? Horford is my favorite Hawk and I'd HATE to see him playing somewhere else but I wouldn't blink to see him traded for Howard, provided it meant Dwight is staying in Atlanta and it makes Josh happy.

[Vol4ever]

Are these your opinion or are you speaking factually? Horford is my favorite Hawk and I'd HATE to see him playing somewhere else but I wouldn't blink to see him traded for Howard, provided it meant Dwight is staying in Atlanta and it makes Josh happy.

I have a couple contacts in the league that are not with the Hawks organization. So, I guess if you asked factually I would have to say no.

[ATL_BALLER]

It's funny - I started this thread to bring us back to reality. Next thing, Diesel is quoting Luther Vandross and the Dwight fervor has only intensified.

I give up! :)

[Diesel]

It's funny - I started this thread to bring us back to reality. Next thing, Diesel is quoting Luther Vandross and the Dwight fervor has only intensified.

I give up!

It's the power of Love....

[Wretch]

It's funny - I started this thread to bring us back to reality. Next thing, Diesel is quoting Luther Vandross and the Dwight fervor has only intensified.

I give up!

That reality has kept us from being relevant for as long as I've watched basketball. It really says something about the culture of the franchise, when every post season we are looked at like the whole grain cereal in lucky charms. When every conversation about the Hawks with people begins with a strange "huh?" look. When every time a big name appears on the wires, our team isn't even relevant in the discussion.

Maybe some people on this board are just now coming into where I was 16 years ago...when I figured out what "relevancy" was. When I was naive enough to think that what we had was good enough and just getting there was good enough...and being competitive was good enough. The truth of the matter is, the welfare mentality has to stop. You don't play this game or manage it with the intent of just getting by. There's no money and no prestige in that.

Two things that the best players in the world expect to have. Is it any wonder then, that nobody talks about playing for us? When our own fans lay down and accept their place? I'm tired of us being nothing more than the unknown jobber in the wrestling ring. The guy who's sole purpose is to get his *ss whooped to promote the wrestlers people come to see.

Tired of that and I'll listen to any rumor that involves us going after any franchise-level talent.

[GameTime]

Believe it or not the discussions involving a D12 trade have been ongoing for a while. Josh with his hint of wanting a trade in public is a push for the Hawks to get D12 here. The issue will be with Josh staying here if the deal is made the Hawks will be in if the tax situation. The Hawks have by far the most to offer the Magic. Orlando wants Horf and will make the trade if the Hawks will do it. Orlando will lose Dwight if they dont get a trade done by the deadline. The Hawks will not make a blockbuster trade other than D12.

If this is true I have no idea what Sund/ASG is waiting for.

Edited March 10, 2012 by GameTime

[Vol4ever]

If this is true I have no idea what Sund/ASG is waiting for.

Orlando wants to move Hedo with any deal that they might make for D12. You know how rumors are, but Hawks management cant decide what they want to do, Dallas on the other hand would trade half their roster to get Dwight. Hedo cant play anymore and his contract is a big issue.

In other news Im sure everyone has heard Memphis has decided not to trade OJ Mayo. He was almost traded to Phoenix a week ago.

My guess is 50/50 D12 gets traded. The Lakers are very interested but not sure they would give up Bynum in the deal, no Bynum no D12 for Orlando.

But, the Hawks are in the mix. They just got to make a decision.........................

[Diesel]

That reality has kept us from being relevant for as long as I've watched basketball. It really says something about the culture of the franchise, when every post season we are looked at like the whole grain cereal in lucky charms. When every conversation about the Hawks with people begins with a strange "huh?" look. When every time a big name appears on the wires, our team isn't even relevant in the discussion.

Maybe some people on this board are just now coming into where I was 16 years ago...when I figured out what "relevancy" was. When I was naive enough to think that what we had was good enough and just getting there was good enough...and being competitive was good enough. The truth of the matter is, the welfare mentality has to stop. You don't play this game or manage it with the intent of just getting by. There's no money and no prestige in that.

Two things that the best players in the world expect to have. Is it any wonder then, that nobody talks about playing for us? When our own fans lay down and accept their place? I'm tired of us being nothing more than the unknown jobber in the wrestling ring. The guy who's sole purpose is to get his *ss whooped to promote the wrestlers people come to see.

Tired of that and I'll listen to any rumor that involves us going after any franchise-level talent.

Amen Brother.

Welfare Mentality was the introduction to a thesis that I wrote here some time back. It really kills me to hear what other people think of our franchise. The say things like Atlanta will give up Josh and Marvin for KG's ending contract. They say things like Atlanta will give up Josh for Jeff Foster and the dude from Parts unknown. They say that Atlanta shouldn't think about going after Howard because he's too good for them. Then to hear that same mess from "FANS"... Come on? Where is the pride? Like it or not, we have gone to the 2nd round 4 yrs in a row.. that's not to say that we're world beaters but it does say that we ought to value our players more than we do?!!?!!!

To hear fans talk about Josh as if him wanting an allstar bid was far fetched is crazy. To hear fans talk about Joe as if he doesn't go out every night with a target on his back and still produces is crazy. To hear fans down talk this team and our accomplishments as if it were some kind of dumb luck is crazy. We're in the hunt and our starting C has been sitting for most of the season. We beat OKC and fans were looking for excuses. That's crazy. So to think that we have a chance to make the move that will put us over the top and will be something that sets this franchise back on the map of relevancy amoung the league... and to here the fans of this team saying .. NO.. Let's go back to our comfortable mediocre life because it's safer... IS CRAZY.

I want a parade down Peachtree... IF only for one time.

I want to see our guys get the respect of the National Audience... IF only for one time.

I want to see Josh and Dwight on the podium High Fiving each other with tears in their eyes talking about an "A TOWN Dream come true... If Only for one time.

And if we fail... then at least we failed trying to be Great... rather than being a waste of space or another footnote in somebody else's road to the championship.

"The rung of a ladder was never meant to rest upon, but only to hold a man's foot long enough to enable him to put the other somewhat higher." ~Thomas Henry Huxley