Sorry, but the Dwight delusion must end

[phoostal]

Diesel I've been saying that the last couple of years about daring to be great instead of accepting being above average. This organization won't make a daring move. They accept the status quo. If you want to blame anyone blame this ownership group and management. People don't believe this will ever happen (I'm part of that group) for the simple fact the ASG doesn't have it in them to make a bold move like that.

[Buzzard]

Howard is a once in a decade type player. He is this decades Shaq, a couple of decades before Shaq it was Jordan. He is the one player on the planet right now who can take a team to a championship series without having one other all-star on his team.

If we can get him ... get him

Edited March 11, 2012 by Buzzard

[Buzzard]

Diesel I've been saying that the last couple of years about daring to be great instead of accepting being above average. This organization won't make a daring move. They accept the status quo. If you want to blame anyone blame this ownership group and management. People don't believe this will ever happen (I'm part of that group) for the simple fact the ASG doesn't have it in them to make a bold move like that.

Just for fun, went to the trade checker. I can see why Orlando would be interested and why we are rumored to be talking. All three of these work, add picks and stir if you think needed.

Horford, JJ for Hedo, Howard

Horford, Smoove for Hedo, Howard

Horrford, Marvin, Hinrich for Hedo, Howard

Edited March 11, 2012 by Buzzard

[thecampster]

Just for fun, went to the trade checker. I can see why Orlando would be interested and why we are rumored to be talking. All three of these work, add picks and stir if you think needed.

Horford, JJ for Hedo, Howard

Horford, Smoove for Hedo, Howard

Horrford, Marvin, Hinrich for Hedo, Howard

Throw them our First in 2013 and 2015 and I bet they'd do that.

[Buzzard]

Throw them our First in 2013 and 2015 and I bet they'd do that.

I would be jumping up and down totally out of control the rest of the season if they would and we did!

[Jody23]

Orlando wants to move Hedo with any deal that they might make for D12. You know how rumors are, but Hawks management cant decide what they want to do, Dallas on the other hand would trade half their roster to get Dwight. Hedo cant play anymore and his contract is a big issue.

In other news Im sure everyone has heard Memphis has decided not to trade OJ Mayo. He was almost traded to Phoenix a week ago.

My guess is 50/50 D12 gets traded. The Lakers are very interested but not sure they would give up Bynum in the deal, no Bynum no D12 for Orlando.

But, the Hawks are in the mix. They just got to make a decision.........................

I wonder if the hesitancy is from knowing that if they pull the trigger, Dwight won't stay and that this has already been communicated behind the scenes? I would think if the Hawks have been talking this long, they would know by now whether or not he would even consider staying or not.

[ATL_BALLER]

So to think that we have a chance to make the move that will put us over the top and will be something that sets this franchise back on the map of relevancy amoung the league... and to here the fans of this team saying .. NO.. Let's go back to our comfortable mediocre life because it's safer... IS CRAZY.

Diesel - I'm not saying 'NO' (unless you're talking about people who aren't for a deal - which I am). Of course I'd love Dwight. I'm saying it's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, and, while I would never begrudge you hope, reaching at writer speculation (Bleacher Report, no less) and these scenarios in your head are not going to change the facts I dropped at the start of this post.

I'll stop being the downer, though, and leave it at that.

[Buzzard]

I wonder if the hesitancy is from knowing that if they pull the trigger, Dwight won't stay and that this has already been communicated behind the scenes? I would think if the Hawks have been talking this long, they would know by now whether or not he would even consider staying or not.

Howard waffles a lot. Last week I read a quote of his in which he flat out stated money, his contract, was still his biggest concern. The team that has him can pay him roughly 30 million more over the life of the contract. 6 years vs 5 years plus larger rasies for the team that has him...I don't think he will walk but a SNT is still a strong possibility.

[Admin]

Howard waffles a lot. Last week I read a quote of his in which he flat out stated money, his contract, was still his biggest concern. The team that has him can pay him roughly 30 million more over the life of the contract. 6 years vs 5 years plus larger rasies for the team that has him...I don't think he will walk but a SNT is still a strong possibility.

I think he'd only be able to get the extra money if he signed an extension with his current team so there's no advantage for him to do a SnT, that is assuming I understand what MaceCase said in another thread where I brought that up.

http://hawksquawk.ne...heir-contracts/

Now the new CBA has actually not been made official so there might be changes but according to that....

There is truly no reason for Dwight to bother with a sign and trade because it doesn't offer him any benefits like the old CBA, it would be treated like just a normal free agent signing. There would also be no reason for a team with cap space to offer a sign and trade So Brooklyn would not have to deal with us and neither would Dallas if they shed contracts like they claim they can.

So basically yes we could sign and trade him but that's at Dwight's and the other team's discretion thus why Dwight would prefer to be traded to one of his preferable free agent destinations now so that they'd have Bird rights on him for an extension.

[Vol4ever]

I wonder if the hesitancy is from knowing that if they pull the trigger, Dwight won't stay and that this has already been communicated behind the scenes? I would think if the Hawks have been talking this long, they would know by now whether or not he would even consider staying or not.

I believe Hawks management is at a crossroads here. Remember just recently with Joe and Horf out the Hawks played well. Joe comes back last night and Teague doesnt know what to do. There seems to be a rif between Joe and Josh. The D12 thing is looming.................

What would we do if we owned the team? Move Horf and JJ to Orlando and possibly rent D12 for 6 weeks?

[Randy]

Getting rid of Joe's contract migth be worth lot, but I'm not sure its worth giving up Al for only 6 weeks or so of D-12. Anyway, I don't see Orlando going for that.

My thought is to go the other direction. Orlando is probably the team that would give up the most for Josh - to keep D12 happy. Maybe we could get Anderson, Davis, Redick, a draft pick, plus some other goodies for Josh.

[Buzzard]

I think he'd only be able to get the extra money if he signed an extension with his current team so there's no advantage for him to do a SnT, that is assuming I understand what MaceCase said in another thread where I brought that up.

So if the old CBA is in effect it is 5 vs 6 plus bigger raises but the new one it is not. The only adavantage to the new one for his current team puts Howard in a bad spot as he can only get 4.5% from a team other than his bird rights team which he can get 7.5% raises and one more year.

That still works out to a huge amount of money over a five year period vs four. So walking is still expensive...

[phoostal]

I want nothing of big baby davis this guy blows

[Admin]

So if the old CBA is in effect it is 5 vs 6 plus bigger raises but the new one it is not. The only adavantage to the new one for his current team puts Howard in a bad spot as he can only get 4.5% from a team other than his bird rights team which he can get 7.5% raises and one more year.

That still works out to a huge amount of money over a five year period vs four. So walking is still expensive...

Check out that article I just posted from the Magic BasketBlog. The money isn't nearly as much since he'd still be so young that he could get another max deal at the end of the new 4 year deal so he'd surely make as much during that 5th year, whether it's the final year of his current (new) deal or the 1st year of a new (new) deal then.

[GameTime]

I believe Hawks management is at a crossroads here. Remember just recently with Joe and Horf out the Hawks played well. Joe comes back last night and Teague doesnt know what to do. There seems to be a rif between Joe and Josh. The D12 thing is looming.................

What would we do if we owned the team? Move Horf and JJ to Orlando and possibly rent D12 for 6 weeks?

In all reality, without any deals done won't we have the rebuild anyway? I mean Josh Smith is basically gone next year if we remain status quo.

Getting rid of Joe's contract migth be worth lot, but I'm not sure its worth giving up Al for only 6 weeks or so of D-12. Anyway, I don't see Orlando going for that.

My thought is to go the other direction. Orlando is probably the team that would give up the most for Josh - to keep D12 happy. Maybe we could get Anderson, Davis, Redick, a draft pick, plus some other goodies for Josh.

as much as I love JJ Redick him, Anderson, Davis and possibly a 23rd pick that Sund is gonna waste is not worth Smoove.

[thecampster]

I believe Hawks management is at a crossroads here. Remember just recently with Joe and Horf out the Hawks played well. Joe comes back last night and Teague doesnt know what to do. There seems to be a rif between Joe and Josh. The D12 thing is looming.................

What would we do if we owned the team? Move Horf and JJ to Orlando and possibly rent D12 for 6 weeks?

Yes you do that in a heartbeat...I'll explain.

Next season, Horf and JJ are set to make $31,752,645. Without Both, the Hawks have only $29,169,327 in salary. (Dwight is a free agent, Hinrich expires). Now the trick here is to not resign Dwight until you sign other free agents. You'd have only 4 under contract. So there's 4 million in cap holds up front and if you don't figure in Hinrich about 4 million more in cap holds for vets on the roster who haven't signed (about $37 million, 21 million under the cap). So in a perfect world, you would then sign Deron Williams for about 16-18 million and then one more player at about 5 million. Now this is assuming no other trades. At this point you can give Dwight his max deal. Starting at $18 million. I also think you exercise on Ivan Johnson at 967,000. On the roster you'd have,

Deron/Teague

SG you signed

Marvin

Josh/Ivan

Dwight/Zaza

And the player you signed for 5 million ish. You have 4 mandatory slots to fill and have spent $69 million. You may or may not have a first round pick. Then you get one player for 1.7 million as a draft pick. You need 3 players and have 1.3 million to spend under the Luxury tax. These are basic numbers, not specific but you can see that this roster has real potential and is possible. If you could trade Horford and JJ for Dwight, you do it and you don't look back. Defensively you are a powerhouse. You can move Marvin on draft day for a late first round pick to lighten the salary burden and turn the page.

[Admin]

Yes you do that in a heartbeat...I'll explain.

Next season, Horf and JJ are set to make $31,752,645. Without Both, the Hawks have only $29,169,327 in salary. (Dwight is a free agent, Hinrich expires). Now the trick here is to not resign Dwight until you sign other free agents. You'd have only 4 under contract. So there's 4 million in cap holds up front and if you don't figure in Hinrich about 4 million more in cap holds for vets on the roster who haven't signed (about $37 million, 21 million under the cap). So in a perfect world, you would then sign Deron Williams for about 16-18 million and then one more player at about 5 million. Now this is assuming no other trades. At this point you can give Dwight his max deal. Starting at $18 million. I also think you exercise on Ivan Johnson at 967,000. On the roster you'd have,

Deron/Teague

SG you signed

Marvin

Josh/Ivan

Dwight/Zaza

And the player you signed for 5 million ish. You have 4 mandatory slots to fill and have spent $69 million. You may or may not have a first round pick. Then you get one player for 1.7 million as a draft pick. You need 3 players and have 1.3 million to spend under the Luxury tax. These are basic numbers, not specific but you can see that this roster has real potential and is possible. If you could trade Horford and JJ for Dwight, you do it and you don't look back. Defensively you are a powerhouse. You can move Marvin on draft day for a late first round pick to lighten the salary burden and turn the page.

Wouldn't Dwight have a cap hold counting against your available space before he's re-signed? I could be completely making that up but I thought I remembered reading something like that at one point. It's been so long since we've been under the cap and had room to sign a big time player that I've forgotten.

Of course I don't think that matters since there is zero chance that they'd add JJ's big contract without shipping out Turk to us so we'd have to consider him in our plans. Maybe we expand the deal and give them Marvin while they give us Turk? That would still add about $3 million onto next years number.

[Jody23]

I believe Hawks management is at a crossroads here. Remember just recently with Joe and Horf out the Hawks played well. Joe comes back last night and Teague doesnt know what to do. There seems to be a rif between Joe and Josh. The D12 thing is looming.................

What would we do if we owned the team? Move Horf and JJ to Orlando and possibly rent D12 for 6 weeks?

When I read Cunningham's blog after the game, he made the comment that Teague had been calling for the ball most of the night to no avail. Obviously, Teague gets more shots when JJ is out which is good for the team as Jeff attacks the basket way more than Joe who tends to settle for low percentage jump shots while stopping the offense. I definitely see JJ being a little reluctant to relinquish ball handling duties to Teague.

[thecampster]

Wouldn't Dwight have a cap hold counting against your available space before he's re-signed? I could be completely making that up but I thought I remembered reading something like that at one point. It's been so long since we've been under the cap and had room to sign a big time player that I've forgotten.

Of course I don't think that matters since there is zero chance that they'd add JJ's big contract without shipping out Turk to us so we'd have to consider him in our plans. Maybe we expand the deal and give them Marvin while they give us Turk? That would still add about $3 million onto next years number.

Both valid points....I think you are right on both.

[Admin]

Both valid points....I think you are right on both.

I would have preferred for you to have said I was wrong!