Sorry, but the Dwight delusion must end

[Diesel]

If Orlando would accept Joe, that's an easy call. However, I doubt that. And with that I meant Joe/Horf.

However, Horf/Marvin/Hinrich/1st for Rental/Turk is a deal I would do.

I wouldn't give up Josh.

I would give up Horf/Joe but no pick...and I would sweat giving up Joe.

Right now, we need this.. even as a rental.

[Jody23]

If Orlando would accept Joe, that's an easy call. However, I doubt that. And with that I meant Joe/Horf.

However, Horf/Marvin/Hinrich/1st for Rental/Turk is a deal I would do.

I wouldn't give up Josh.

I would give up Horf/Joe but no pick...and I would sweat giving up Joe.

Right now, we need this.. even as a rental.

If the Magic wanted Josh, why wouldn't you give him up?

[Diesel]

If the Magic wanted Josh, why wouldn't you give him up?

I think Josh is the better PF between him and Horf.

I know Josh is boneheaded and Horf is steady.. but at PF, I think Horf loses a lot of his advantages. He goes from being a speed guy to being a slow plodding guy.

With Josh, the tandem of him and Dwight would be the most athletic tandem this side of Blake and Jordan.

Swat City.

[Jody23]

I think Josh is the better PF between him and Horf.

I know Josh is boneheaded and Horf is steady.. but at PF, I think Horf loses a lot of his advantages. He goes from being a speed guy to being a slow plodding guy.

With Josh, the tandem of him and Dwight would be the most athletic tandem this side of Blake and Jordan.

Swat City.

I respect your take, but I disagree. In the long run, I think Horf will be better because of his size and skill.

[Diesel]

I respect your take, but I disagree. In the long run, I think Horf will be better because of his size and skill.

I'll just say,look at the elite teams and get a gander of their PFs.

We're talking Chris Bosh, Dirk, Even Kevin Love. These guys are not guys that will allow Horf to sit in the post and play post defense.

I have watched Horf. I watched Horf get abused by Amare Stoudamire last year.

I watched Horf get victimized by Boozer in the playoffs.

The point is that Horf may be better at C than PF because of speed.

[Buzzard]

If Orlando would accept Joe, that's an easy call. However, I doubt that. And with that I meant Joe/Horf.

However, Horf/Marvin/Hinrich/1st for Rental/Turk is a deal I would do.

I wouldn't give up Josh.

I would give up Horf/Joe but no pick...and I would sweat giving up Joe.

Right now, we need this.. even as a rental.

So in your opinion keeping Josh is more important than getting D12. Diesel you need to put away the cooler man. Way to much Smoove kool-aide for you tonight.

If I have said it once I will say it another million times, I will give up any two of our best players plus a pick to get D12. I do not care who you pair him with, JJ, Horford, or Smoove, we will be better with D12 than without him by a landslide!

Let me put it this way, the days of only looking good against under .500 teams will be over with when you pair Dwight and pick any single one of our best players....

Edited March 11, 2012 by Buzzard

[thecampster]

I respect your take, but I disagree. In the long run, I think Horf will be better because of his size and skill.

I see it differently. I think Josh is better today. But 5 years from now I think when Josh's athleticism wanes, Horf will be better.

[Admin]

So in your opinion keeping Josh is more important than getting D12. Diesel you need to put away the cooler man. Way to much Smoove kool-aide for you tonight.

If I have said it once I will say it another million times, I will give up any two of our best players plus a pick to get D12. I do not care who you pair him with, JJ, Horford, or Smoove, we will be better with D12 than without him by a landslide!

Let me put it this way, the days of only looking good against under .500 teams will be over with when you pair Dwight and pick any single one of our best players....

I don't believe that you can include Josh and expect Howard to stay long term so there's zero chance that I'm including him in a trade, even if it only increases Dwight's chances of resigning by 1%.

[Buzzard]

I don't believe that you can include Josh and expect Howard to stay long term so there's zero chance that I'm including him in a trade, even if it only increases Dwight's chances of resigning by 1%.

I think you can simply because Atlanta is Howard's hometown and that 30 million is important to him. Now add in that we may actually beat someone in the playoffs during the 2nd round and there are three reasons for him to stay with us.

Winning and money will go a long way to keeping Howard. A lot further than losing and taking a 30 million dollar pay cut. It is a gamble but isn't Josh asking for a trade? We do not go after Howard and lose Josh to free agency, where is the win in that?

Like I said, no one is safe if Howard is the prize. As long as we can keep one of our big three, I think getting past the 2nd round is a real possibility. And if that happens keeping Howard becomes a real one also....

Edited March 11, 2012 by Buzzard

[MaceCase]

I don't believe that you can include Josh and expect Howard to stay long term so there's zero chance that I'm including him in a trade, even if it only increases Dwight's chances of resigning by 1%.

But there's also the chance that you don't include him and they both bounce leaving you with nothing.....less than nothing even....in a year.

I simply would not rely on a guy who is already sending out signals he doesn't want to be here to be the main person convincing another guy who doesn't want to come here to stay. Very weird dynamic with that. Of course, unless the main motivation is to cut all salary commitments and lessen the debt so that the franchise can be sold.

[Admin]

I think you can simply because Atlanta is Howard's hometown and that 30 million is important to him. Now add in that we may actually beat someone in the playoffs during the 2nd round and there are three reasons for him to stay with us.

Winning and money will go a long way to keeping Howard. A lot further than losing and taking a 30 million dollar pay cut. It is a gamble but isn't Josh asking for a trade? We do not go after Howard and lose Josh to free agency, where is the win in that?

Like I said, no one is safe if Howard is the prize. As long as we can keep one of our big three, I think getting past the 2nd round is a real possibility. And if that happens keeping Howard becomes a real one also....

You gotta stop fixating on that $30 because in that year, what would it be 2016-2017, he's either going to get ~$25 million on the last year of his contract or getting ~$25 million on the 1st year of his new contract.

And we can't use the hometown as an expectation that he'll stay since he hasn't shown any interest in Atlanta as his hometown yet so what makes you think that will change in a half season? I thoroughly believe, even though I'm apparently a Josh Smith hater, that Josh would be a lot happier if Al and/or JJ were gone and that we brought in his buddy to play with him and we'd see a new level of dedication from him. Then I think you'll get a Josh who will convince Dwight to stay and build around that duo.

But there's also the chance that you don't include him and they both bounce leaving you with nothing.....less than nothing even....in a year.

I simply would not rely on a guy who is already sending out signals he doesn't want to be here to be the main person convincing another guy who doesn't want to come here to stay. Very weird dynamic with that. Of course, unless the main motivation is to cut all salary commitments and lessen the debt so that the franchise can be sold.

You're right it's a very weird dynamic but I think if you get rid of the player(s) that Josh doesn't seem to like and replace him/them with his best friend and you will see a much more dedicated Josh and he'll want to stay in Atlanta and he'll make sure that Dwight doesn't leave. And Atlanta is definitely a big enough market that you could market Dwight and have the place sell out and hopefully still get some sort of sponsorship and a lot more national TV games.

[MaceCase]

Is he mad at the players or management though? Sure one gives us a lollipop view that we can easily remedy but it's ownership/management that has done the most amount of "wrong" to him. Add that to the question of is it because of Al and JJ that Dwight doesn't want to come to ATL? That is just way too flimsy for me to roll on a franchise changing move. Hell, ever wonder why Orlando went out and got Big Baby? It's because they are close friends too and yet that hasn't kept Dwight from having one foot out the door. This is the new NBA, everyone are friends currently or from the past. It's not enough.

[Buzzard]

You gotta stop fixating on that $30 because in that year, what would it be 2016-2017, he's either going to get ~$25 million on the last year of his contract or getting ~$25 million on the 1st year of his new contract.

And we can't use the hometown as an expectation that he'll stay since he hasn't shown any interest in Atlanta as his hometown yet so what makes you think that will change in a half season? I thoroughly believe, even though I'm apparently a Josh Smith hater, that Josh would be a lot happier if Al and/or JJ were gone and that we brought in his buddy to play with him and we'd see a new level of dedication from him. Then I think you'll get a Josh who will convince Dwight to stay and build around that duo.

You're right it's a very weird dynamic but I think if you get rid of the player(s) that Josh doesn't seem to like and replace him/them with his best friend and you will see a much more dedicated Josh and he'll want to stay in Atlanta and he'll make sure that Dwight doesn't leave. And Atlanta is definitely a big enough market that you could market Dwight and have the place sell out and hopefully still get some sort of sponsorship and a lot more national TV games.

Howard getting 25 million starting at 31 years of age is iffy at best. Which is why he is looking to be traded before the deadline, so he can get that 5th year in the books with whoever on his short list has him. Orlando is playing hardball with him by threatening not to trade him.

[Admin]

Howard getting 25 million starting at 31 years of age is iffy at best. Which is why he is looking to be traded before the deadline, so he can get that 5th year in the books with whoever on his short list has him. Orlando is playing hardball with him by threatening not to trade him.

Well we can come back to this topic then but I'm certain that he'll get another max deal at that point.

Is he mad at the players or management though? Sure one gives us a lollipop view that we can easily remedy but it's ownership/management that has done the most amount of "wrong" to him. Add that to the question of is it because of Al and JJ that Dwight doesn't want to come to ATL? That is just way too flimsy for me to roll on a franchise changing move. Hell, ever wonder why Orlando went out and got Big Baby? It's because they are close friends too and yet that hasn't kept Dwight from having one foot out the door. This is the new NBA, everyone are friends currently or from the past. It's not enough.

Big difference between between friends with someone in the NBA and growing up with someone as your best friend and having them be your best man at your wedding. It's apples and oranges there between Smith and Big Baby.

And yes I'm sure that Josh resents management for not doing enough to promote him as an All-Star but I think he resents JJ or possibly Al even more. That's all opinion by me so who knows what is true and what's not true, but I have to believe that management knows the real situation from talking with Josh and will take that into consideration.

[MaceCase]

Dol, friendship is not enough for a guy to determine his career is what I'm saying. Bron, Bosh and Wade were friends professionally and only got together to find a situation that would help their careers. They weren't running to Miami based of pure friendship because that's f***ing silly. Do you want to hang out after a game or win? Now add in that Dwight's and Josh's friendship is not confined to ATL and you still have way to flimsy a reasoning for them to stay.

[Admin]

Dol, friendship is not enough for a guy to determine his career is what I'm saying. Bron, Bosh and Wade were friends professionally and only got together to find a situation that would help their careers. They weren't running to Miami based of pure friendship because that's f***ing silly. Do you want to hang out after a game or win? Now add in that Dwight's and Josh's friendship is not confined to ATL and you still have way to flimsy a reasoning for them to stay.

You're acting as if we're a lottery team here by saying that it's either hang out or win. We're already a playoff team without Horford and if we replace him with Dwight them we're talking about a deep playoff run.

Tell me, if you had to consider working for company A or company B, and both were roughly equivalent, wouldn't you prefer to go to the company where your best friend in the entire world worked with you? That just makes sense to me if all other things are relatively equal. But on this matter I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here but I think their friendship means a lot more than you're giving it credit.

[Buzzard]

You're acting as if we're a lottery team here by saying that it's either hang out or win. We're already a playoff team without Horford and if we replace him with Dwight them we're talking about a deep playoff run.

Tell me, if you had to consider working for company A or company B, and both were roughly equivalent, wouldn't you prefer to go to the company where your best friend in the entire world worked with you? That just makes sense to me if all other things are relatively equal. But on this matter I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here but I think their friendship means a lot more than you're giving it credit.

In a perfect world yes company with best friend wins. In the not so perfect world...family, money, winning championships wins and I can still hang out with my best friend all summer long....

[Jody23]

Bottom line imo, if Dwight tells the Hawks behind closed doors that he won't resign even with a deep playoff run, trading away your all star F/C for what would be a CERTAIN rental would be foolish. I can't imagine the Hawks don't know at this point whether or not he would stay.

[Admin]

Bottom line imo, if Dwight tells the Hawks behind closed doors that he won't resign even with a deep playoff run, trading away your all star F/C for what would be a CERTAIN rental would be foolish. I can't imagine the Hawks don't know at this point whether or not he would stay.

If there's a certainty then no you probably don't, unless it gets you out of Joe's contract. Knowing how the ASG have traded away picks and avoided using the MLE to sign players it wouldn't surprise me at all if they gave away an unhappy Josh Smith to get out of JJ's contract. I would certainly hope they won't do that, but with these guys you never know.

[MaceCase]

You're acting as if we're a lottery team here by saying that it's either hang out or win. We're already a playoff team without Horford and if we replace him with Dwight them we're talking about a deep playoff run.

Tell me, if you had to consider working for company A or company B, and both were roughly equivalent, wouldn't you prefer to go to the company where your best friend in the entire world worked with you? That just makes sense to me if all other things are relatively equal. But on this matter I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree here but I think their friendship means a lot more than you're giving it credit.

Or would you pick company C in a greater location, greater coworkers, greater boss, greater perks and put in a good word for your buddy so he can come join later? See, it's flimsy all around because you just want to lay blame at Al and Joe and pay no mind that the Atlanta owners and market are much bigger issues in all of this.