Sorry, but the Dwight delusion must end

[Admin]

Or would you pick company C in a greater location, greater coworkers, greater boss, greater perks and put in a good word for your buddy so he can come join later? See, it's flimsy all around because you just want to lay blame at Al and Joe and pay no mind that the Atlanta owners and market are much bigger issues in all of this.

Why is Brooklyn a greater location than Atlanta? Why are the Nets players better co-workers than the Hawks players?

Who's laying blame at Al and Joe? Just because Josh does or does not get along with someone doesn't mean it's their fault so please don't put words in my mouth.

[Diesel]

Bottom line imo, if Dwight tells the Hawks behind closed doors that he won't resign even with a deep playoff run, trading away your all star F/C for what would be a CERTAIN rental would be foolish. I can't imagine the Hawks don't know at this point whether or not he would stay.

Are you saying that a deep playoff run is less important than another mediocre one... AND having the ability to SNT the hottest FA commodity in the game is worth nothing? The question is not weather or not he would stay. The question is would he play!

[Diesel]

So in your opinion keeping Josh is more important than getting D12. Diesel you need to put away the cooler man. Way to much Smoove kool-aide for you tonight.

If I have said it once I will say it another million times, I will give up any two of our best players plus a pick to get D12. I do not care who you pair him with, JJ, Horford, or Smoove, we will be better with D12 than without him by a landslide!

Let me put it this way, the days of only looking good against under .500 teams will be over with when you pair Dwight and pick any single one of our best players....

I'm not saying that I wouldn't give up two stars for Dwight Resigned. But I'm saying for a rental, that won't happen.

[Jody23]

Are you saying that a deep playoff run is less important than another mediocre one... AND having the ability to SNT the hottest FA commodity in the game is worth nothing? The question is notify weather or not he would stay. The question is would he play!

What I'm saying is the long term outlook is more important than the short term. Would it be nice to have D-12? Absolutely. But, if he says "I'm not staying" up front, you can't ignore that. Horford ain't exactly sliced spam and essentially giving him away for CERTAIN short term gratification would be foolish especially when it likely wouldn't lead to a title anyway. Also, coming to the conclusion that D-12 is the only way the ATL could ever reach contention is extremely premature. If the Hawks were smart (big if I know), they would consider what they could do to make this team a contender in the long run, not just this year. Thinking short term gratification is exactly why they signed Joe Johnson to that ridiculous contract. We see how smart of a decision that was.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Jody23

[Diesel]

What I'm saying is the long term outlook is more important than the short term. Would it be nice to have D-12? Absolutely. But, if he says "I'm not staying" up front, you can't ignore that. Horford ain't exactly sliced spam and essentially giving him away for CERTAIN short term gratification would be foolish especially when it likely wouldn't lead to a title anyway. Also, coming to the conclusion that D-12 is the only way the ATL could ever reach contention is extremely premature. If the Hawks were smart (big if I know), they would consider what they could do to make this team a contender in the long run, not just this year. Thinking short term gratification is exactly why they signed Joe Johnson to that ridiculous contract. We see how smart of a decision that was.

I disagree. The longterm outlook is made worse. Joe ain't getting no younger. Neither are any of the players we have right now. I don't know Jody. Maybe you're too young to remember but we once had a star named Dominique and a GM named Babcock. Early in his career, one of the mistakes that he made was he failed to trade Tree Rollins for Michael Jordan. Pretty much the same type of reasoning. Even though Jordan was the NCAA player of the year and drafted 3rd by Chicago, Tree Rollins was a 7'1" Center coming off a good year. But with our very best efforts, we were a mediocre team.

Right now, we're a mediocre team. Dwight is the best Center in the game and a definite Game Changer. ON top of that, he's from Atlanta. If the deal comes available... Otis is talking 50/50 now... You make the deal.

[MaceCase]

Why is Brooklyn a greater location than Atlanta? Why are the Nets players better co-workers than the Hawks players?

Who's laying blame at Al and Joe? Just because Josh does or does not get along with someone doesn't mean it's their fault so please don't put words in my mouth.

Dol, I don't care if it offends anyone but Atlanta has nothing on New York in terms of prestige or marketability and Deron is better than anyone that the Hawks have at a more important position.

And no, I'm not putting words in your mouth I'm just trying to figure what you're saying by Josh has a bigger issue or more tension or whatever with Al and Joe rather than the ASG. I don't see how trading them away will make him happy if his issue is with management so if you're saying he'd all of sudden be happy and be willing to stay himself and convince Dwight to also then you are putting blame on Al and Joe for him being disgruntled rather than anything the ASG has or hasn't done to him. You'll have to help me out with that.

[Admin]

Dol, I don't care if it offends anyone but Atlanta has nothing on New York in terms of prestige or marketability and Deron is better than anyone that the Hawks have at a more important position.

And no, I'm not putting words in your mouth I'm just trying to figure what you're saying by Josh has a bigger issue or more tension or whatever with Al and Joe rather than the ASG. I don't see how trading them away will make him happy if his issue is with management so if you're saying he'd all of sudden be happy and be willing to stay himself and convince Dwight to also then you are putting blame on Al and Joe for him being disgruntled rather than anything the ASG has or hasn't done to him. You'll have to help me out with that.

I'm not saying that definitively Josh's issues are or are not with any player or management, I'm speculating that I believe Josh's biggest beefs are on court or at least are shown out there. I think he feels he should be getting JJs contract and resents JJ for that. I think he resents Al for wanting to play PF and asking the ASG to get a real center to pair with him. I'm sure he resents the ASG for not promoting him for the all-star game but I believe if they get rid of JJ and/or Al and get Dwight that he'll forgive ownership and he'll be much happier without the incourt tension that is clearly evident.

[Jody23]

Lol, Diesel I remember the narrative and the characters of those days very well. In fact, I met Nique last year and had a chance to talk Hawks and basketball with him. Despite the jokes for his use of "nimbers" and "heat check", the man definitely knows his stuff. Kasten and Babcock deserved every boo they got for trading him in a year where the Hawks were legit contenders.

And yes, I'm well aware of Chicago's infamous offer of the third pick for Tree Rollins. The difference with that situation and now is if the Hawks got the third pick and drafted MJ, there was no indication of him pulling a Kobe and saying "I'm only going to play for...". For better or worse, the Hawks knew he would have played for them for at least the forseeable future.

Don't get me wrong, if Dwight would SERIOUSLY consider playing in the ATL longterm, then yes, you go for it. But again, if behind closed doors, he says "no way Jose" before you even make the trade and you make it anyway, then you don't need Homie the Clown to bop you with the sock. The Hawks will will take it and do it to themselves.

[Vol4ever]

I wonder if the Hawks make the trade, would attendance change in the ATL?

[Diesel]

Lol, Diesel I remember the narrative and the characters of those days very well. In fact, I met Nique last year and had a chance to talk Hawks and basketball with him. Despite the jokes for his use of "nimbers" and "heat check", the man definitely knows his stuff. Kasten and Babcock deserved every boo they got for trading him in a year where the Hawks were legit contenders.

And yes, I'm well aware of Chicago's infamous offer of the third pick for Tree Rollins. The difference with that situation and now is if the Hawks got the third pick and drafted MJ, there was no indication of him pulling a Kobe and saying "I'm only going to play for...". For better or worse, the Hawks knew he would have played for them for at least the forseeable future.

Don't get me wrong, if Dwight would SERIOUSLY consider playing in the ATL longterm, then yes, you go for it. But again, if behind closed doors, he says "no way Jose" before you even make the trade and you make it anyway, then you don't need Homie the Clown to bop you with the sock. The Hawks will will take it and do it to themselves.

OK. Then you have to recognize that even though we had a superstar player, we never put a good team around him and we watched our superstar grow old and miss his window. Basketball is about taking advantage of your shots. IF the Dwight Deal that I outlined becomes a possibility.. even if it's a rental, we'd be fools not to go for it. The reason being is because it gives us a true shot. Nobody here doubts that replacing Al with Howard would guarantee us a deep playoff run and probably Atlanta's first title (if everybody is healthy). That's the goal of every season. The goal is not to build up a collection of players who we can stomach and who may be successful enough to get through a round or two of the playoffs but eventually lose to somebody who has better talent. IF that is your thinking of why these franchises exist... you must be kidding. Then again, that's the side you fall on. You'd rather watch us continue in mediocrity than to see us go for the win.

[Buzzard]

The reason being is because it gives us a true shot. Nobody here doubts that replacing Al with Howard would guarantee us a deep playoff run and probably Atlanta's first title (if everybody is healthy). That's the goal of every season. The goal is not to build up a collection of players who we can stomach and who may be successful enough to get through a round or two of the playoffs but eventually lose to somebody who has better talent. IF that is your thinking of why these franchises exist... you must be kidding. Then again, that's the side you fall on. You'd rather watch us continue in mediocrity than to see us go for the win.

I don't doubt that sending Smoove would do that either. What I have reservations about is sending JJ. Our guard play with a healthy Hinrich just last season became championship caliber on D.

Sending Smoove or Horford with Hinrch I think we have a shot at a title. Include JJ and we will get abused by the better guards at playoff time. Biggest problems Howard had his whole career is 1-lack of good guard play and 2-lack of interior help...as long as we can keep JJ and either Smoove or Horford we have a shot and I say pull the trigger.

He hawing over Smoove vs Horford is stupid IMO, which ever Orlando wants they get because of what you said above...the goal is to win a championship. Period end of story

Edited March 12, 2012 by Buzzard

[Diesel]

I don't doubt that sending Smoove would do that either. What I have reservations about is sending JJ. Our guard play with a healthy Hinrich just last season became championship caliber on D.

Sending Smoove or Horford with Hinrch I think we have a shot at a title. Include JJ and we will get abused by the better guards at playoff time. Biggest problems Howard had his whole career is 1-lack of good guard play and 2-lack of interior help...as long as we can keep JJ and either Smoove or Horford we have a shot and I say pull the trigger.

He hawing over Smoove vs Horford is stupid IMO, which ever Orlando wants they get because of what you said above...the goal is to win a championship. Period end of story

Yeah, I have been heeing and hawing about the addition of Joe too. I mean, I watched Wade just destroy us the other night (in crunchtime). I was thinking Joe would have played better defense. But the move if it's a rental and we use Joe to get it done is really a PR move that will clear Joe's contracts off the books. That's not to say it's not a worthwhile cause.. but I still want a shot at the title with Dwight... the question is would we be good enough if Joe goes?

[Buzzard]

Yeah, I have been heeing and hawing about the addition of Joe too. I mean, I watched Wade just destroy us the other night (in crunchtime). I was thinking Joe would have played better defense. But the move if it's a rental and we use Joe to get it done is really a PR move that will clear Joe's contracts off the books. That's not to say it's not a worthwhile cause.. but I still want a shot at the title with Dwight... the question is would we be good enough if Joe goes?

I doubt it this year. But if we could keep Howard that is all we would need provided we still had one of Horf or Smoove.

[Admin]

What I don't get are the Thunder saying they absolutely would not trade Ibaka and Harden for Howard. Are you freaking kidding me? You'd have Westbrook, Durant and Howard and nobody would be able to defend them. I understand Ibaka and Harden are very good players but still. I guess they'd be worried that Dwight would leave but you'd have to think that winning a championship in OKC and playing on front of that crowd would be enough to get him to stay.

[MaceCase]

What I don't get are the Thunder saying they absolutely would not trade Ibaka and Harden for Howard. Are you freaking kidding me? You'd have Westbrook, Durant and Howard and nobody would be able to defend them. I understand Ibaka and Harden are very good players but still. I guess they'd be worried that Dwight would leave but you'd have to think that winning a championship in OKC and playing on front of that crowd would be enough to get him to stay.

Dol the most overlooked aspect about all of this is......Deron. His team is *ss yet he's quiet as a mouse, not complaining, not demanding changes or a trade just......playing. It reminds me too much of how Wade was just quiet through the two seasons the Heat were rebuilding. I think GMs see this and are wary of a possible deal. Like before, they can't prove collusion but something is definitely up.

[Admin]

Dol the most overlooked aspect about all of this is......Deron. His team is *ss yet he's quiet as a mouse, not complaining, not demanding changes or a trade just......playing. It reminds me too much of how Wade was just quiet through the two seasons the Heat were rebuilding. I think GMs see this and are wary of a possible deal. Like before, they can't prove collusion but something is definitely up.

I suppose that's possible but when did Deron and Dwight get so close?

[MaceCase]

I suppose that's possible but when did Deron and Dwight get so close?

Olympics like Bosh, Wade and Bron maybe?

It's just too suspicious, there should be a few thousand rumors about this guy and yet....nada.

[Admin]

Olympics like Bosh, Wade and Bron maybe?

It's just too suspicious, there should be a few thousand rumors about this guy and yet....nada.

You may have a point, I dunno. He may just be content knowing that no matter what he's going to be playing with a better team next year, whether that's the Nets or someplace else. If I had to bet I'd say that someone the Mavs are going to pull this off and there's already been some discussion between the 2 of them and the Mavs, unofficially of course.

That's why we need to trade for Dwight and keep Josh though as you know that Josh has to have some type of skeleton in Dwights closet that he knows about that he can blackmail him with if he tries to leave.

[Jody23]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/219639/Report_Howard_Preventing_Trade_To_Bulls

Looks like the Magic would do a deal with the Bulls, but Howard apparently wouldn't re-sign with them. Wow. I guess playing with D Rose isn't that enticing to him. Lol. Smh. I really think Dwight is New Jersey or Dallas bound.

[Buzzard]

http://basketball.re..._Trade_To_Bulls

Looks like the Magic would do a deal with the Bulls, but Howard apparently wouldn't re-sign with them. Wow. I guess playing with D Rose isn't that enticing to him. Lol. Smh. I really think Dwight is New Jersey or Dallas bound.

If this goes to free agency, I like Dallas and Cuban a lot.