WTF! YOU THINK IM A HORFORD HATER NOW!...READ AND UNDERSTAND ME!

[JTB]

Im going to make this short as possible...

1st off Im no Horford Hater, I wrote that last thread mainly because I couldnt believe how good smith was playing and then when Johnson came back the Hawks seem to play better than I have seen them play consistently in years now! plus Smith and Johnson was tearing up the stat sheet!...Good or Bad teams who cares the hawks were Consistent.

Moving forward my last thread...hawksquawk.net/community/topic/365994-does-johnson-smith-equal-a-possible-horford-exit/...made me look as if I hate horfors and i dont. Horford is a very talented player but what I was trying to make people under stand about Horford and our Hawks is this...

1. We have 3 ALL STARS...yes smith is a all star player...when it comes to the better teams we see this team play better with either one of the 3 of our all stars playing our 2 of the 3 of our all stars playing. The horford,johnson,smith connection just dont click

2. johnson and smith seem to play better without horford! not horfords fault he cant control their efforts but it really just isnt effort its their smarts as well

........johnson is a better player along side a atheletic freak like smith than he is with a fundamental player like horford, in my eyes. smith on the other hand is really better without both johnson or horford on the court! mainly because for some odd *ss reason smith is a smarter player suddenly when he is by himself.

3. This team is at its ceiling top they could go higher but we have 3 different mentalities on the court we it needs to be the same for all 3 and thats "Play smart basketball and Win" not just "win"

Let me sum it up....

-I appologize maybe the solution isnt to get rid of horford maybe the solution is to rid johnson and smith. johnson and smith play smarter when their togeather but when horford get on the floor they feel like they can do anything they want to do. Sometimes I wish horford could be a point-forward cause his BBIQ is killing JJ's and Smooves.

WHAT HAS TO BE DONE IF THE HAWKS WANT TO COMPETE FOR TITLES:

This team dont click the ceiling could go higher but 2 of the 3 too damn dumb for that to happen so heres options on what we have to do..

option 1.Get a smarter PG like Nash to operate the floor...this is a long shot and most hawk fans know this

option 2. build around horford and get him some different all stars to play with...johnson and smith arent smart enough to play with horford. horford could possibly be a whole lot better if he had teammates as smart as him and if he had a offense centered around him he may give you 23 or 25 ppg! that mid range is consistent.

option 3. build around josh and joe...this has already been done earlier in thier careers but they seem to click alot better today rather than then...and its like they have a feel for each other that they dont have with BIG AL

option 4. build around Smith...if smith was centered as "the star" he would probably give us performances like what we recently seen nearly every game. This would boost smith confidence and his BBIQ apparently

This wasnt made out of anger I just know that the hawks need to move on cause this core dont just dont have it. Its clear! so pick one of the 4 options ASG and move on! i would prefer option number 1, then we wouldnt have to worry about getting rid of none of our all stars and we would see the team as a unit click better.

PS this was in reply to those of you who sent me messages of thinking I disliked horford. hopefully you are reading this!

[JTB]

sorry for the typos by the way....need some sleep

[willthepureshooter]

Man, no need to apologize or retract your comments. That's your opinion and you shouldn't break it for no one. I also think Horford should be traded because he doesn't fit our scheme. Worst case scenar, he should be the third option.

[Wurider05]

What allstar team has Josh Smith made? He isn't an allstar unless he actually makes the team not because you say he is. Why I don't think that anyone is untradeable you have to admit that we didn't start winning until Horford got here. There is a reason why the coaches select him to the allstar team and Josh isn't selected. With Josh's great play we are still four games from being the 9th seed with the 8th seed having a losing record. Even in our wins you can see problems. We didn't beat Sacremento they gave the game away with sloppy passing. 2 less turnovers and they would have won the game out right. We lose to detroit, we lose to the clippers, and you guys think that Josh and Joe will take us pass Chicago and Miami? We will be a first exit this year because we are not better than Philly, Indiana, Chicago, or Miami. We could definitely beat Orlando.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Wurider05

[coachx]

........johnson is a better player along side a atheletic freak like smith than he is with a fundamental player like horford,

How much longer will Smith be an athletic freak ?How much longer will Horford be sound fundamentally ?Which player will play better into their 30s ?Which player is locked up for 4 more years under contract ?Which player only has 1 more year under contract and made it known he wants a fresh start ?Now I'm not saying we have to trade either one...................but I find it puzzling that you ignore basic factors like those above.

in my eyes. smith on the other hand is really better without both johnson or horford on the court! mainly because for some odd *ss reason smith is a smarter player suddenly when he is by himself.

Smith's FG% is actually the lowest it has been in years...........b/c he forcing shots in the absence of 2 allstars. I don't see why you think he is now "smarter." Did you miss the Celtics game where Smith thought he was Larry Bird or Reggie Miller ? Edited March 21, 2012 by coachx

[Guest]

If as you say we have 3 allstars why do you want to get rid of one of them....take a good look around the league at teams who are winning. Duncan,Parker,Ginobli - Bynum,Pau,Kobe - LBJ,Wade,Bosh - Garnett,Pierce,Allen - Durant,Westbrook Harden. Under LD's sysyem (it is what it is), this team has played one full season together. Bynum and Pau had to learn to play together, The guys in Boston had to sacrifice their games, Miami still figuring it out. It's not about trading one or the other or two - it's about them ALL doing what's best and sacrificing for one another for the good of the team, but that only helps if we have a good coach also.I don't know if Teague is the best fit at PG but he is who we have - him and Al have played a total of 11 games together this year (with Teague as starter) so it's tough to say if Teague and Al can or can't work effectively going forward. I've seen Teague and Zaza run some effective P-n-R but Zaza with hands of stone sometimes....eeeeeeew.I think LD did the team a disservice when he named all 3 guys, Joe, Josh and Al captains - so now everybody wants to be the man and take the most shots, and call a play and everyone wants to lead but no one wants to follow.

Edited March 21, 2012 by JayBirdHawk

[High5]

The Hawks are 15-14 with Joe and Josh and 3-11 against .500+ teams. There's no evidence to suggest the team plays better or more consistently without Horford, unless you mean consistently bad against decent teams.

[Admin]

YOU LOST ME AT THE SUPER LONG ALL CAPS THREAD TITLE

[Kimsey]

Horford is extremely overrated on these boards. I could name upwards of 10 centers in the West that would be all stars on this team. You are not going to find too many upgrades from Josh or Al.What you can do is find upgrades for Kirk and Marv. Which is a long swingman that can dribble and defend. Even a Stacey Augmon type that was a great all around defender.

[NineOhTheRino]

The guy is our Tim Tebow. He's pretty much a nice face used to market Hawks merchandise to fans wearing high heels. Good or bad this team is stuck with Al until they find a player with an ounce of marketability.

Edited March 21, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Admin]

Horford is extremely overrated on these boards. I could name upwards of 10 centers in the West that would be all stars on this team. You are not going to find too many upgrades from Josh or Al.

What you can do is find upgrades for Kirk and Marv. Which is a long swingman that can dribble and defend. Even a Stacey Augmon type that was a great all around defender.

I'll take that challenge. Which upwards of 10 centers from this list of all centers in the west match up with Al's 15.3 ppg / 9.3 rpg / 3.5 apg / 1 bpg / 1 spg average from all of last season?

2010 Top 5 Centers in NBA (sorted by efficiency)

<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="720"> <tbody> <tr class="statsHeaderRow"> <td align="center" class="statsHeaderRow" colspan="2" nowrap="nowrap"> PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> GP</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> MPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> PTS</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> RPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> APG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> STPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> BLKPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF48M</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 1</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Dwight Howard , ORL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 78</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 37.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 28.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 14.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.39</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 36.26</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 28.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 2</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Al Horford , ATL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 77</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 35.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 22.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 3.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.04</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 30.82</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 22.5</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 3</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Al Jefferson , UTA </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 82</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 35.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 22.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 9.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.87</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 29.89</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 4</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Joakim Noah , CHI </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 48</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 32.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 11.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 19.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 10.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 29.13</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 19.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 5</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Andrew Bogut , MIL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 65</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 35.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 12.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 19.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 11.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.59</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 26.64</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 19.6</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

2011 All Western Centers (sorted by efficiency)

<table border="1" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="720"> <tbody> <tr class="statsHeaderRow"> <td align="center" class="statsHeaderRow" colspan="2" nowrap="nowrap"> PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> GP</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> MPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> PTS</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> RPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> APG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> STPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> BLKPG</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF48M</td> <td align="right" class="statsHeaderRow" nowrap="nowrap"> EFF</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 1</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Andrew Bynum , LAL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 42</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 35.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 25.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 12.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.05</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 33.47</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 25.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 2</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Marc Gasol , MEM </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 38.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 22.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 3.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.96</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 27.73</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 22.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 3</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Al Jefferson , UTA </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 41</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 32.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 22.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 9.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.49</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 32.13</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 4</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Marcin Gortat , PHX </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 46</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 33.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 21.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 10.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.48</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 30.61</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 21.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 5</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> DeMarcus Cousins , SAC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 29.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 16.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 19.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 10.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.25</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 31.13</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 19.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 6</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Nikola Pekovic , MIN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 35</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 26.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 13.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 15.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.71</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 28.85</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 7</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> DeAndre Jordan , LAC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 45</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 27.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 7.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 15.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 8.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.29</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 26.55</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 15.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 8</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Chris Kaman , NOH </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 37</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 28.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 13.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 14.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 8.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.32</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 23.86</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 14.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 9</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Samuel Dalembert , HOU </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 47</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 24.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 8.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 13.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 7.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.89</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 27.12</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 13.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 10</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Emeka Okafor , NOH </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 27</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 28.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 13.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.96</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 22.85</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 13.8</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 11</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Marcus Camby , HOU-POR </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 42</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 3.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 12.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 8.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.36</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 27.28</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 12.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 12</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> DeJuan Blair , SAS </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 43</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 21.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 11.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 5.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.21</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 24.84</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 11.1</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 13</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Brendan Haywood , DAL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 40</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 10.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.08</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.46</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 10.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 14</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Chris Andersen , DEN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 31</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 5.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 9.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.48</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 28.83</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 15</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Kosta Koufos , DEN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 33</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 15.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 9.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.88</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 28.01</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 9.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 16</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Kendrick Perkins , OKC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 45</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 26.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 8.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.24</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 16.14</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 8.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 17</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Ian Mahinmi , DAL </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 8.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.56</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 8.8</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 18</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Kwame Brown , GSW </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 20.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 8.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 19.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 8.2</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 19</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Timofey Mozgov , DEN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 34</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 16.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 7.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.76</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 7.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 20</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Jordan Hill , LAL-HOU </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 33</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 14.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 7.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.64</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 26.12</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.8</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 21</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Charles Hayes , SAC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 35</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 19.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 3.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 7.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.34</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.69</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 7.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 22</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> * Enes Kanter , UTA </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 46</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 13.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 7.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.35</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 24.21</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.1</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 23</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> J.J. Hickson , SAC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 35</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 18.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 6.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.49</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 17.13</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 24</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Andris Biedrins , GSW </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 38</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 15.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 6.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 3.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.97</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 19.49</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 25</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Joel Przybilla , POR </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 11</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 14.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 6.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.64</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 20.93</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 26</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Kurt Thomas , POR </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 14.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 6.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 3.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.64</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 19.23</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.0</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 27</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Robin Lopez , PHX </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 12.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 5.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 3.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.75</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 22.39</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 28</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Darko Milicic , MIN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 29</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 16.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 5.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 3.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.86</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 16.06</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 5.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 29</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Nazr Mohammed , OKC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 11.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 3.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 4.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.59</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 19.61</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.9</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 30</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Cole Aldrich , OKC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 17</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 4.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.59</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 29.84</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 31</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Hamed Haddadi , MEM </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 21</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 5.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 3.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.62</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 28.37</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 3.4</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 32</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> * Greg Smith , HOU </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 7.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .9</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 2.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.71</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 18.44</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 33</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Hasheem Thabeet , POR-HOU </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 2.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.33</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 29.05</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.7</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 34</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> Hassan Whiteside , SAC </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 2.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.78</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 25.68</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 2.6</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 35</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> * Jeremy Tyler , GSW </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 19</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 4.6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> 2.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .2</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.11</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 21.46</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 2.1</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowOdd"> 36</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowOdd"> * Jeff Foote , NOH </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 4</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 9.8</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortOdd"> 1.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.5</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> .0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 0.25</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 6.13</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowOdd"> 1.3</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" class="statsRowEven"> 37</td> <td align="left" class="statsRowEven"> Brad Miller , MIN </td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.3</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 1.1</td> <td align="right" class="statsSortEven"> .9</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .6</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .7</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 0.0</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> 6.64</td> <td align="right" class="statsRowEven"> .9</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

[Kimsey]

Don't know about last season but I'll go about this season, especially above freaking Hibbert from Indy.1. Bynum2. P. Gasol3. Gortat4. M. Gasol5. Duncan6. Jefferson7. Pekovic8. Nene9. D. Jordan (possibly)10. D. Cousins (possibly)Not to say these players are better, but that they most definetly could make the playoffs in the East. D. Favors is high on my list as well playing the 5 in the future.

[Admin]

Don't know about last season but I'll go about this season, especially above freaking Hibbert from Indy.

Not to say these players are better, but that they most definetly could make the playoffs in the East. D. Favors is high on my list as well playing the 5 in the future.

Duncan and P Gasol aren't centers and Nene isn't in the west anymore. Jordan is a decent player but he's only better than Al in blocks and Al dominates him in almost every other aspect. Pekovic might end up being a good player but it's way too early to tell. I'm fine with the rest of these 5 guys having a solid argument as a replacement for Al.

[*]Bynum

[*]Gortat

[*]M. Gasol

[*]Jefferson

[*]Cousins

As for Hibbert, he's nice and all but even as poor of a year as Al was having this year his efficiency was still higher than Hibbert's. Al's numbers from last year are better than Hibberts this year across the board except for blocks... but I can see an argument for Hibbert vs Al simply because of his size and shot blocking ability.

[AHF]

Don't know about last season but I'll go about this season, especially above freaking Hibbert from Indy.

1. Bynum

2. P. Gasol

3. Gortat

4. M. Gasol

5. Duncan

6. Jefferson

7. Pekovic

8. Nene

9. D. Jordan (possibly)

10. D. Cousins (possibly)

Not to say these players are better, but that they most definetly could make the playoffs in the East.

What?

Sacramento is 5-11 against the East this year. How does that make it so Cousins would be in the playoffs in the East?

Minnesota and Pekovic are 5-9 against the East.

Nene just got traded the East so now you have your test case. I am guessing that Nene won't lead his team to any great record now that he jumped conferences.

Most of the other guys aren't exactly the best players on their team so it is a bit hard to translate how they would do in the East without knowing their circumstances but at least teams like Utah are putting up good numbers against the East so the argument is credible (even though I don't know where it gets you since Horford has always had the Hawks in the playoffs).

I also agree with Dolfan's notes about the PFs on the list, etc.

Edited March 21, 2012 by AHF

[Diesel]

The problem which haven't been articulated well is that it's not about stats, it's about style of play. Horf is great. I wouldn't say he's more worthy of his allstars than Josh should have been but he was the best C available in the East. Here's the problem. Horf is a face up, High Post PF. In our offensive scheme, he becomes another jump shooter or set shot shooter (if you will). We are a jump shooting team. Point blank. What we need is a consistent low post player. Somebody who is a threat to score down low if the ball is sent in to him. We don't have that in our toolbox. IF we could trade Horf for Gortat or Bynum or Jordan or even Jefferson, it would make us better.Even with Zaza pulling 7.5/7.5 we're still above water.

[Kimsey]

Pau is a center and Duncan plays both. He's been playing C for the past 4-5 years. When I say East I mean on this Hawks team. Sorry I'm not literal as I apparently needed to be. Of course not alot of Centers in the West or East can make the all star team playing for the bobcats.My argument is alot of West bigs can make the East all star playing center for the Hawks.

[Admin]

Pau is a center and Duncan plays both. He's been playing C for the past 4-5 years. When I say East I mean on this Hawks team. Sorry I'm not literal as I apparently needed to be. Of course not alot of Centers in the West or East can make the all star team playing for the bobcats.

My argument is alot of West bigs can make the East all star playing center for the Hawks.

Pau doesn't play center and NBA.com doesn't consider either Pau or Duncan to be centers if you look at their stats. Duncan could play center but he doesn't and never has for more than spot minutes and Blair is their starting C. Check the NBA depth charts at ESPN.com in case you don't agree.

I don't have a problem with your argument that a lot of them could make the All-Star team but I'd also guarantee you that if you gave Horford a PnR PG he'd put up much bigger numbers than he does now and you have to consider that he's put up the numbers that he does on a team where he's the 3rd option, has no PG, and Atlanta also plays one of the slowest paces in basketball. Put him out West with Nash and the Suns and you've got a guaranteed 20/10 C!

[Kimsey]

Pau doesn't play center and NBA.com doesn't consider either Pau or Duncan to be centers if you look at their stats. Duncan could play center but he doesn't and never has for more than spot minutes and Blair is their starting C. Check the NBA depth charts at ESPN.com in case you don't agree.

I don't have a problem with your argument that a lot of them could make the All-Star team but I'd also guarantee you that if you gave Horford a PnR PG he'd put up much bigger numbers than he does now and you have to consider that he's put up the numbers that he does on a team where he's the 3rd option, has no PG, and Atlanta also plays one of the slowest paces in basketball. Put him out West with Nash and the Suns and you've got a guaranteed 20/10 C!

Put it this way (I'm through with this pointless argument), if Gasol or Duncan was traded to us while Horford and Josh are still on the team... Even though both our forwards are considered all star caliber players, what position would Gasol and Duncan play here???

Having a Nash esque player to feed Al would no doubt do wonders. It'll also do wonders for Josh, even Marv, Joe, and so forth. So what you are really saying is Teague is not a good player because he can't make his teammates better, you see what I just did there....

[Admin]

Put it this way (I'm through with this pointless argument), if Gasol or Duncan was traded to us while Horford and Josh are still on the team... Even though both our forwards are considered all star caliber players, what position would Gasol and Duncan play here???Having a Nash esque player to feed Al would no doubt do wonders. It'll also do wonders for Josh, even Marv, Joe, and so forth. So what you are really saying is Teague is not a good player because he can't make his teammates better, you see what I just did there....

Horford would STILL play C. Duncan and Pau both dislike playing center and both have made comments about it over the years. If Horford were traded then Smith would slide to SF and we'd have some other stiff playing C with Pau or Duncan playing PF.What I'm really saying is that Teague and Horford didn't play together last year and Horford has never played more than a handful of games with a decent PG and even though I like Teague he's not a PnR PG and he doesn't have great vision. Believe what you'd like but Teague doesn't make his teammates better, at least not at this point in his career.Bottom line is that Horford is under utilized and would put up better numbers on a team that used him more and more effectively as well.

[BrazilianHawk]

The problem which haven't been articulated well is that it's not about stats, it's about style of play. Horf is great. I wouldn't say he's more worthy of his allstars than Josh should have been but he was the best C available in the East. Here's the problem. Horf is a face up, High Post PF. In our offensive scheme, he becomes another jump shooter or set shot shooter (if you will). We are a jump shooting team. Point blank. What we need is a consistent low post player. Somebody who is a threat to score down low if the ball is sent in to him. We don't have that in our toolbox. IF we could trade Horf for Gortat or Bynum or Jordan or even Jefferson, it would make us better.

Even with Zaza pulling 7.5/7.5 we're still above water.

Hm. Trade Josh (who is willing to leave anyway) for any of those and half our problems would be solved. Then hire a coach (not a clueless one again, please), and we'd have a shot at something big.

1. We have 3 ALL STARS...yes smith is a all star player...when it comes to the better teams we see this team play better with either one of the 3 of our all stars playing our 2 of the 3 of our all stars playing. The horford,johnson,smith connection just dont click

2. johnson and smith seem to play better without horford! not horfords fault he cant control their efforts but it really just isnt effort its their smarts as well

........johnson is a better player along side a atheletic freak like smith than he is with a fundamental player like horford, in my eyes. smith on the other hand is really better without both johnson or horford on the court! mainly because for some odd *ss reason smith is a smarter player suddenly when he is by himself.

1. No, he's not. Not with those jumpers. Sorry.

2. I actually agree with that. Makes me wish we have sent him to Charlotte or New Orleans. He would have a great time trying to be the man in those teams.