Hawks - Jazz

[Supporter]

I can see now that you would argue with a brick wall.I can assure you i am not an alt account. Its ok for someone not to like Joe Johnson as much as you do.The 3 to tie tonight was a great shot.

And the three against the pistons, the wizards, and the cavs......just sayin

[thecampster]

I think he meant when josh went out in the 3rd.

Yes, I did mean in the 3rd when he got his 4th foul at about the 9 minute mark, LD took him out. We had about a 10 point lead at the time. They took the lead at about the 3 minute mark (6 minutes later).

And the three against the pistons, the wizards, and the cavs......just sayin

What do you say about the 2 he missed at the end of regulation that would have won the game? He had a good look, floater in the lane, no hand in his face with 3 seconds to spare.All I'm saying is be fair.

[PureGreatness]

You realize that only proves even more he's someone's alt account.

thats why i said it

[Supporter]

Yes, I did mean in the 3rd when he got his 4th foul at about the 9 minute mark, LD took him out. We had about a 10 point lead at the time. They took the lead at about the 3 minute mark (6 minutes later).What do you say about the 2 he missed at the end of regulation that would have won the game? He had a good look, floater in the lane, no hand in his face with 3 seconds to spare.All I'm saying is be fair.

And I'm saying even with those misses Joe is the best closer that we have and one of the best shot makers in the league.

[EazyRoc]

And I'm saying even with those misses Joe is the best closer that we have and one of the best shot makers in the league.

Reaching with that last one. He is our best closer, but not one of the best in the league. There's at least 10 or so players I would rather give the ball to with time ticking off. Joe is good, but damn it was the Jazz. When I root for him and take a chance with him in marquee games, he almost always embarrasses me. I'm excited he played such a large part in our win tonight, but as cliche as it sounds...Yes that what he is being paid for.

[thecampster]

Reaching with that last one. He is our best closer, but not one of the best in the league. There's at least 10 or so players I would rather give the ball to with time ticking off. Joe is good, but damn it was the Jazz. When I root for him and take a chance with him in marquee games, he almost always embarrasses me. I'm excited he played such a large part in our win tonight, but as cliche as it sounds...Yes that what he is being paid for.

See, it isn't personal. I think JJ is a very good basketball player. I think he does make a team better. I just think giving him a max contract and Lebron type of respect is misplaced. He is what he is. He's a good basketball player, a little soft, a good shooter and excellent in catch and shoot...he just isn't a max player in my opinion. Max players make the shot in regulation and finish with 26 points. Max players close it out in the first overtime. He's good but not max. He's worth about 12 to 13 IMO.

[01d0rd3r]

See, it isn't personal. I think JJ is a very good basketball player. I think he does make a team better. I just think giving him a max contract and Lebron type of respect is misplaced. He is what he is. He's a good basketball player, a little soft, a good shooter and excellent in catch and shoot...he just isn't a max player in my opinion. Max players make the shot in regulation and finish with 26 points. Max players close it out in the first overtime. He's good but not max. He's worth about 12 to 13 IMO.

So when Kobe played in a 3 OT game against pheonix last year, and didnt close it in regulation or the first two overtimes, he proved to everyone he wasnt a max player? Cause a max player would have closed that game in regulation, right? Please, players dont make everyone shot in non clutch situations, I think we can make an exception for missing one or two when the game is on the line. Especially with the way he has closed games this season. Edited March 26, 2012 by 01d0rd3r

[Supporter]

No way are there 10 players I would take over JJ. Lets see:1. Kobe2. Dirk3. Carmelo4. Pierce5. Wade6. Durant7. Chris Paul8. Ray Allen9. Joe JohnsonThere you go

Edited March 26, 2012 by Supporter

[thecampster]

No way are there 10 players I would take over JJ. Lets see:1. Kobe2. Dirk3. Carmelo4. Pierce5. Wade6. Durant7. Chris Paul8. Ray Allen9. Joe JohnsonThere you go

Lebron isn't on your list. Deron Williams isn't on your list. Kevin Love? Dwight Howard? Blake Griffin even? There's 5 more you might want to consider who are more impactful.It all happened with Michael Jordan. Pre-Jordan you built a team by getting a Center first, then a PG, then a Power Forward...then a shooting guard, then a wing. That was the order of importance. In the 80's/90's a few fellows by the names of Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Wilkins came into the league and led their teams to the playoffs every year, winning a lot. Lost in that mix was Ewing, Malone/Stockton. Traditional higher need, great players that didn't win a championship and the league decided scoring guards were more important. Jordan/Pippen was an anomaly. Defense and Rebounding still wins championships. Give me Dwight, Griffin in 2 years and/or Kevin Love any day. If you own the lane and handle the ball, you win basketball games. That's basketball 101.

[Supporter]

Lebron isn't on your list. Deron Williams isn't on your list. Kevin Love? Dwight Howard? Blake Griffin even? There's 5 more you might want to consider who are more impactful.It all happened with Michael Jordan. Pre-Jordan you built a team by getting a Center first, then a PG, then a Power Forward...then a shooting guard, then a wing. That was the order of importance. In the 80's/90's a few fellows by the names of Jordan, Pippen, Drexler, Wilkins came into the league and led their teams to the playoffs every year, winning a lot. Lost in that mix was Ewing, Malone/Stockton. Traditional higher need, great players that didn't win a championship and the league decided scoring guards were more important. Jordan/Pippen was an anomaly. Defense and Rebounding still wins championships. Give me Dwight, Griffin in 2 years and/or Kevin Love any day. If you own the lane and handle the ball, you win basketball games. That's basketball 101.

I'm not talking about guys I want to build my team around, I'm talking about closers in the last few minutes when you need somebody to get a shot off. Joe wouldn't crack my top 20 list of who I would build around but he is definitely one dude that I would want taking the last shot.I guess it was my fault for not quoting and just giving a list of ten guys. Edited March 26, 2012 by Supporter

[thecampster]

I'm not talking about guys I want to build my team around, I'm talking about closers in the last few minutes when you need somebody to get a shot off. Joe wouldn't crack my top 20 list of who I would build around but he is definitely one dude that I would want taking the last shot.I guess it was my fault for not quoting and just giving a list of ten guys.

Then I definately would want Kevin Love and Deron Williams on that list. Deron can get to the basket at will and at least draw the foul (see the game 2 nights ago for a reference).

[High5]

That game was brutal. Fortunately the Jazz refused to win. We should have lost that game on about 17 different occasions. But I'll take it.

[EazyRoc]

No way are there 10 players I would take over JJ. Lets see:1. Kobe2. Dirk3. Carmelo4. Pierce5. Wade6. Durant7. Chris Paul8. Ray Allen9. Joe JohnsonThere you go

You are entitled to your opinion, but you left Derrick Rose off that list. Personally, I would add Ginobili, Derron Williams, Jeremy Lin, and in the past Jamal Crawford.

[Supporter]

You are entitled to your opinion, but you left Derrick Rose off that list. Personally, I would add Ginobili, Derron Williams, Jeremy Lin, and in the past Jamal Crawford.

Derrick Rose has an iffy jumper, Ginobili ok, Derron ok, Jeremy Lin is unproven, Jamal I guess. I still say that Joe is top ten when it comes to clutch shooting which involves every part of the court plus freethrows.This is what I don't get, we have a dude (Joe Johnson) who has been so clutch this year and we still have debate over little things like this. Shouldn't fans be able to just sit back and applaud his efforts instead of trying to measure how he is doing with the rest of the team or the rest of the NBA.

[EazyRoc]

Derrick Rose has hit some big shots in the few games he's played. He's always a threat to go to the basket and can hit the floater, go all the way, or step back for a jumper. I , threw Lin out there, but he's confident and has hit some big shots too. That's not necessarily a knock on Joe. He's a great balanced player, but one of the best closers he isn't at this point.

Edited March 26, 2012 by EazyRoc

[Colin]

Derrick Rose is a threat to get a bullsh*t call*

[thecampster]

Derrick Rose has an iffy jumper, Ginobili ok, Derron ok, Jeremy Lin is unproven, Jamal I guess. I still say that Joe is top ten when it comes to clutch shooting which involves every part of the court plus freethrows.This is what I don't get, we have a dude (Joe Johnson) who has been so clutch this year and we still have debate over little things like this. Shouldn't fans be able to just sit back and applaud his efforts instead of trying to measure how he is doing with the rest of the team or the rest of the NBA.

The debate wasn't if Joe was good in the clutch, a good citizen, better than average husband or better in wing tips vs. loafers. The debate that got these guys all riled up was whether or not Joe is worth a max contract compared to other talent. That debate inevitably ends up in comparing him to Al or Josh which are completely different positions. My whole original argument surrounds the idea that you don't give max money to a shooting guard unless they are Wade/Kobe. Most shooting guards provide 1 thing well....they knock down open jumpers. Some can create their own shot which is nice when it happens but good team basketball involves ball-handling, moving the ball, finding the open man, rebounding and defense. This is why I value Josh so much. Compared to other Power Forwards.....only power forwards here. compare apples to apples. Josh is a better than average ball handler at that position, an excellent passer (too good sometimes), a good but not great rebounder and a very good but not great defender (he struggles in one on one post defense). Again, only compared to other power forwards or small forwards too if you will. But Joe is an average to above average ball handler at his position (great as a SF but average+ at SG), he is a very good passer (he would be better if that was his focus), an above average rebounder and an above average defender. Comparably at the position (in the concept of team basketball here) he isn't as good as some. He isn't max in my mind. FYI, neither is Josh. Josh is a good but lazy rebounder and has tendencies in his defense that make him porous one on one in the post. However, I do think Josh is more valuable based on effect on defense his presence makes. Josh helps shut down the lane which is defensive priority number two (the first is stop ball...see the Mike Bibby effect :) ). Joe is actually good at stopping his man from getting a good shot off but his team D, stopping ball and shutting off the lane are suspect.

[benhillboy]

Joe has been balling lately.

[thatsmydawg]

And the three against the pistons, the wizards, and the cavs......just sayin

I said it was "great" becasue it was the best shot in a historically great NBA game. 4ot's don't happen often.I would say the others were clutch shots against bad teams and by no means "great." Man, over react much?

[willthepureshooter]

Then I definately would want Kevin Love and Deron Williams on that list. Deron can get to the basket at will and at least draw the foul (see the game 2 nights ago for a reference).

Lol! I can't agree with you on Kevin Love, Dwight Howard, or Blake Griffin. You're sort off reaching my man.