Marvin should get some credit

[EazyRoc]

That's not any better. He's getting paid to be a #3 option as a starter not as a sixth man.

No he isn't. If you compare him to third option starters on playoff teams that aren't on rookie contracts, he's getting 3-7 million less per year. Edited April 8, 2012 by EazyRoc

[Sothron]

No he isn't. If you compare him to third option starters on playoff teams that aren't on rookie contracts, he's getting 3-7 million less per year.

The fact he got a reasonable contract for a third option doesn't change what he was paid to be. If he's just going to be a bench player his salary needs to be minimum veteran level or the small level exception range.

[EazyRoc]

You are not making any sense. How is he paid to be a third option ? What is that based off ? Marvin was never paid to be a third option. He was paid based on his age and production at the time he signed his contract. I don't remember who it was exactly but Flip or Jamal were our third option.

Edited April 8, 2012 by EazyRoc

[MaceCase]

Again a comical view of NBA salary structure. He's making slightly above role player money....are you under some impression that role players only get paid the vet minimum and 3rd options get the MLE?

[Sothron]

Again a comical view of NBA salary structure. He's making slightly above role player money....are you under some impression that role players only get paid the vet minimum and 3rd options get the MLE?

I'm simply holding Marvin to the same salary expectations that others hold Joe to. Fair is fair.

[EazyRoc]

You still don't make sense. Marvin still makes significantly less than third options not signed to rookie contracts. Marvins contract is more in line with a sixth man. How about that...

[Peoriabird]

I'm simply holding Marvin to the same salary expectations that others hold Joe to. Fair is fair.

By the way, Isn't Kirk Heinrich making more than Marvin?

[Guest Walter]

Marvin should always been a sixth man. He excelled at that role in college, why would you take someone away from something they are comfortable with?

You mean video games? Disappearing acts?Come on guys. The highs and lows of MW are all within a rather pedestrian, mediocre range. Nothing to see here. W

[Kimsey]

Remember the MW vs. JS debates.... I may reup those older posts. The same pro Marvin crowd back then are still stubborn.

[MaceCase]

I'm simply holding Marvin to the same salary expectations that others hold Joe to. Fair is fair.

A midlevel player making midlevel money vs a non-max player making max money......yea, absolutely comparable.

[Sothron]

A midlevel player making midlevel money vs a non-max player making max money......yea, absolutely comparable.

A bench player making #3 starting money versus a six time All Star making max money. Yeah, no comparison there, You finally got one thing right.

[EazyRoc]

A bench player making #3 starting money versus a six time All Star making max money. Yeah, no comparison there, You finally got one thing right.

It's real easy to make claims without backing it up with facts. The reality is you're wrong. What makes it sad is you won't admit you are wrong and continue to spew out incorrect information because the facts are clearly against you. So I challenge you, Sothron, to find players that are not signed to rookie deals and are third option starters that are making 7.5 million a year. Just about every playoff team has a third option that makes 3 to 7 million more. That's 10-14.5 million dollars. That's the range for a third option. Edited April 9, 2012 by EazyRoc

[OHYEAH]

This is my first post but just wanted to give my input. I don't see all the hate Marvin Williams is getting. Am i mad we picked him over the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Willams...... Heck Yeah!!! But we gotta give props when someone deserves it. Marvin Williams has been playing great ever since he's been our sixth man. And for the past couple years I think everyone has undervalued his defense. People forget how he played before Jamal Crawford came to the team. He used to average 14-15ppg and at least 5 rpg. And I think its hard to do that when the coach makes you the 5th or 6th option. Under the 6th man role he gets more opportunities and he's excelling. Also, If I remember correctly ( I maybe wrong) when Marvin Williams was resigned, a lot of us were happy with the contract.

[Peoriabird]

This is my first post but just wanted to give my input. I don't see all the hate Marvin Williams is getting. Am i mad we picked him over the likes of Chris Paul and Deron Willams...... Heck Yeah!!! But we gotta give props when someone deserves it. Marvin Williams has been playing great ever since he's been our sixth man. And for the past couple years I think everyone has undervalued his defense. People forget how he played before Jamal Crawford came to the team. He used to average 14-15ppg and at least 5 rpg. And I think its hard to do that when the coach makes you the 5th or 6th option. Under the 6th man role he gets more opportunities and he's excelling. Also, If I remember correctly ( I maybe wrong) when Marvin Williams was resigned, a lot of us were happy with the contract.

Welcome to "Hatesquawk"

[Sothron]

It's real easy to make claims without backing it up with facts. The reality is you're wrong. What makes it sad is you won't admit you are wrong and continue to spew out incorrect information because the facts are clearly against you. So I challenge you, Sothron, to find players that are not signed to rookie deals and are third option starters that are making 7.5 million a year. Just about every playoff team has a third option that makes 3 to 7 million more. That's 10-14.5 million dollars. That's the range for a third option.

The following were signed to be 3rd options or are working as 3rd options or were traded to intend to act as 3rd options. I rounded the numbers because there's too many to list exact numbers for.Ty Thomas: 7.3 millionVarejao: 7.7 millionOdom/Jason Kidd/Marion: 8 to 7 million eachAffalo/Al Harrington: 7 and 6 millionCharlie V: 7 milionRichard Jefferson: 9 millionScola: 8 millionMo Williams: 8 millionConley: almost 7 millionDrew Gooden: 6 millionHumphries: 8 millionAriza: almost 7 millionNelson/Reddick: around 7 million for eachT. Young 7 millionGortat/Grant Hill around 7 millionFelton/Wes Matthews: 7 and 6 millionJohn Salmons/Thornton: 8 and 7 millionStephen Jackson: 9 millionCalderon: 9 millionBlatche: 6 millionDevin Harris/Milsap: 9 and 6 millionAmazing how many teams have their third options or who were intended to be third options in that 7-9 million range. But wait! Marvin as a bench player isn't being overpaid? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[01d0rd3r]

So I challenge you, Sothron, to find players that are not signed to rookie deals and are third option starters that are making 7.5 million a year.

After looking it up it appears that the 3rd options (Or what I consider the 3rd option on the team) not on rookie contracts making around (2 million over or under) Marvin areJameer Nelson.Marcus ThorntonMarcin GortatDevin HarrisJammal CrawfordArron AfflaloTyrus ThomasKris HumphriesKeep in mind that I dont have a dog in this argument. These are just the people that you specified.Edit: Sothron has provided his own list above mine. Edited April 9, 2012 by 01d0rd3r

[thecampster]

The following were signed to be 3rd options or are working as 3rd options or were traded to intend to act as 3rd options. I rounded the numbers because there's too many to list exact numbers for.

Ty Thomas: 7.3 million

Varejao: 7.7 million

Odom/Jason Kidd/Marion: 8 to 7 million each

Affalo/Al Harrington: 7 and 6 million

Charlie V: 7 milion

Richard Jefferson: 9 million

Scola: 8 million

Mo Williams: 8 million

Conley: almost 7 million

Drew Gooden: 6 million

Humphries: 8 million

Ariza: almost 7 million

Nelson/Reddick: around 7 million for each

T. Young 7 million

Gortat/Grant Hill around 7 million

Felton/Wes Matthews: 7 and 6 million

John Salmons/Thornton: 8 and 7 million

Stephen Jackson: 9 million

Calderon: 9 million

Blatche: 6 million

Devin Harris/Milsap: 9 and 6 million

Amazing how many teams have their third options or who were intended to be third options in that 7-9 million range. But wait! Marvin as a bench player isn't being overpaid? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I'll bite. For his year long production, Marvin is overpaid about 2.5 million a year. If he plays off the bench like he has the last 2 weeks, He's about right/slightly overpaid. I have no problem saying that.

Now since we're being honest about production, let's look at the Hawks and see where they are

Teague - 12.6ppg, 2.4 rpg, 4.9apg - 1.6 million a year....grossly underpaid.

Zaza - 7.8ppg, 8.0 rpg - 4.75 million a year....about right, maybe overpaid, numbers deceive based on bench time

Marvin - 9.9 ppg, 5.1 rpg - 7.5 million a year.....overpaid (numbers are better since being made 6th man but still overpaid)

Hinrich - 6.6 ppg, 2.8 apg - 8 million a year..... grossly overpaid....numbers don't bear out contribution but still overpaid.

Josh - 18.9 ppg, 9.7 rpg, 3.9 apg - 12.4 million.....a little underpaid should be about 15 million a year. 1.5 steals, 1.8 blocks ups value.

Joe - 19.0 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 3.9 apg - 18 milliion ..... overpaid!!! If Josh at his production level is 15, Joe is about 13.5-$15. If comparing him to Al at 12 million last year, the numbers are very similar and he is a $12-14 million player.

Al - 12.4 ppg, 7 rpg - 12 million a year.... incomplete as these are below his normal numbers and are affected by injury blowouts to start the year. Using last year's numbers of 15.3, 9.3, 3.5 he is below Josh's current production a little and is probably a little underpaid.

Edited April 9, 2012 by thecampster

[MaceCase]

First sign of an agenda is the overwillingness to be vague on details such as contracts. Setting yourself up for embarassment already.

Ty Thomas: 7.3 million

Resigned to a 40 million dollar contract by the Bobcats (that's 2.5 million more than Marvin) to be benched on a lotto team. Yup, Marv is overpaid. Add to the fact he was the 4th option behind Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw and Gerald Wallace.

Varejao: 7.7 million

Signed to a 6 year 43 million dollar contract to be the 4th option behind Lebron, Mo Williams, Shaq and then the 5th option with the addition of Antwan Jamison.

Failed on contract and role but don't worry, this will be a continual trend.

Odom/Jason Kidd/Marion: 8 to 7 million each

Odom signed a 4 year contract for 32 million to be the Lakers 6th man was just traded for capspace and has been benched by Dallas, money well spent.

Kidd, signed 3 year deal for 25 million, is making 10 million this year.

Marion, signed 5 year deal for 39.8 million to play behind Dirk, Caron Butler, Jason Terry, and Jason Kidd. Add in Dampier who then became Chandler and you have a guy making more than Marvin to be the 6th option.

Fail

Affalo/Al Harrington: 7 and 6 million

Arron Afflalo, signed to 5 year 38 million deal to be the 5th option behind then Nene, Ty Lawson, still on rookie contract but just extended for 4 years Danillo Gallinari and recently returned and resigned to 5 years 37 million Wilson Chandler.

Al Harrington was paid 5 years 33 million to be the 6th man/bench scorer....

Double fail.

Charlie V: 7 milion

Signed to 5 years 37.7 million (200k more than Marv) To play behind RIP Hamilton, Ben Gordon, Rodney Stuckey and Tayshaun Price. Is currently collecting 66 games worth of DNPCDs. Money well spent

Richard Jefferson: 9 million

Opted out of a deal that was paying him ~13million annually to resign for a 4 years 38million deal to be the 4th option behind Timmy, Manu and Tony. Oh yea, was traded away promptly to Golden State after they realized he couldn't even fulfill that role

The amount of fail there is staggering.

Scola: 8 million

Signed 5 years 47 million to be the 2nd option to Kevin Martin.

Mo Williams: 8 million

Last two years of 6 year 52 million deal and before injury was 5th option bench scorer after Paul, Griffin, Chauncey, and Butler...is still their bench scorer even after injuries battling for time with Sophmore PG Eric Bledsoe and recently acquired SG Nick Young.

Conley: almost 7 million

Signed to 5 years 40 million to be the 4th option behind Randoplh, Gay and Gasol.

Drew Gooden: 6 million

Signed 5 year 32 million deal to share the 4th option with Maggette behind Bogut, Jennings and Salmons.

Fail

Humphries: 8 million

The only 3rd option that you've actually managed to mention yet, signed to one year deal though.

Mini-Pass

Ariza: almost 7 million

5 year 33million. Is the 5th leader in scoring total on the Hornets despite Eric Gordon and Carl Landry missing most the season, 6th in per game average and is the 4th highest paid player. In Houston, after injuries were settled, he was the 5th option behind Kevin Martin, Aaron Brooks, Scola and Landry.

Nelson/Reddick: around 7 million for each

Jameer, 5 year 38 million deal to be behind Dwight, Shard and Hedo

Reddick, 3 year 19 million to be a scorer off the bench behind Dwight, Vince, Shard and Jameer then Dwight, Jameer, Jason Richardson, Ryan Anderson, Hedo and Big Baby .....

Fail

T. Young 7 million

Signed to 5 years 43 million to be the 7th man bench scorer behind 6th man Louise Williams and starters Brand, Iguodala and Holiday

Gortat/Grant Hill around 7 million

Gortat, signed 5 years 33 mil by Dallas to be their 8th option, matched by Orlando before traded to Phoenix. Is currently their 2nd highest paid player.

Hill, signed to a one year deal for 6.5, tied for 4th with Frye for scoring average. Why no mention of Josh Chilldress though? 5 years 33.5 million to collect DNPCDs?

Fail

Felton/Wes Matthews: 7 and 6 million

Felton, signed to two years 14mil to actually be the 3rd option behind two Maxes so ding ding ding, you finally hit one but too bad the length of his deal was only to serve as a placeholder to get a 3rd max.

Wes Matthews, signed to 5 years 26mil to be the 4th option behind Roy, Aldridge, and Andre Miller even conceivably healthy Oden.

back to failure

John Salmons/Thornton: 8 and 7 million

Salmons, signed to 5 year 39 million by the Bucks, failed terribly and thus traded to Sacramento to be the 5th option/Old man at the club. Money well spent.

Marcus Thronton, signed to 4 years 31 million. Not bad, you actually hit on another 3rd option in 30 tries.....too bad Evans, Cousins, and Thompson are still on rookie deals....expect their extensions to push his salary to 5th highest on the team.

pass/fail

Stephen Jackson: 9 million

Signed and extended by Golden State to actually be their number 1 option after Baron bolted, traded to Charlotte, traded to Milwaukee, traded to San Antonio to replace Richard Jefferson as the 4th option.

Calderon: 9 million

Signed 5 year 45 million dollar deal to actually be Bosh's 2nd option.

Blatche: 6 million

Signed 5 year extension worth 35 million......to be a top starter and building block on a rebuilding team....is currently collecting DNPCDs for being a fatass on said rebuilding team. Money better spent than on Marvin.

Devin Harris/Milsap: 9 and 6 million

Harris, signed 5 year 42 million by Dallas to be the 4th option behind Dirk, Terry and Josh Howard before being traded to NJ to be the 3rd option to Vince and RJ then the 2nd option behind Vince and flanked by Lopez only to now be the worst starter on a rebuilding team.

Milsap, matched a 4 year 32 million deal to be the 5th option bench roleplayer behind Deron, Boozer, Okur and Kirilenko.

The many seasons of fail.

Amazing how so many teams are paying their intended 4-5th options more than Marvin and yet he's somehow considered overpaid.

Stick to Joe Johnson praise threads, Soth, because your own hater shades are clouding any sensible judgment when it comes to Marvin.

Edited April 9, 2012 by MaceCase

[Sothron]

First sign of an agenda is the overwillingness to be vague on details such as contracts. Setting yourself up for embarassment already.

Failed on contract and role but don't worry, this will be a continual trend.

Fail

The amount of fail there is staggering.

Fail

The only 3rd option that you've actually managed to mention yet, signed to one year deal though.

Mini-Pass

Fail

Fail

back to failure

pass/fail

The many seasons of fail.

Amazing how so many teams are paying their intended 4-5th options more than Marvin and yet he's somehow considered overpaid.

Stick to Joe Johnson praise threads, Soth, because your own hater shades are clouding any sensible judgment when it comes to Marvin.

The only thing amazing is how you intentionally ignored where I said the players were either signed to be 3rd options, traded to be 3rd options or are working as 3rd options. Your post is so full of fail it should be stickied under "how not to read a post and respond before reading".

After looking it up it appears that the 3rd options (Or what I consider the 3rd option on the team) not on rookie contracts making around (2 million over or under) Marvin are

Jameer Nelson.

Marcus Thornton

Marcin Gortat

Devin Harris

Jammal Crawford

Arron Afflalo

Tyrus Thomas

Kris Humphries

Keep in mind that I dont have a dog in this argument. These are just the people that you specified.

Edit: Sothron has provided his own list above mine.

Now here is someone who can actually read and respond accordingly. Well done sir.

[MaceCase]

The only thing amazing is how you intentionally ignored where I said the players were either signed to be 3rd options, traded to be 3rd options or are working as 3rd options. Your post is so full of fail it should be stickied under "how not to read a post and respond before reading".

It's amazing how I mentioned each and every instance and circumstance of which each and every one of those players were originally signed and consequently traded (except Mo Williams, I seem to have omitted that he was Redd's and Lebron's 2nd option). It's okay though, if I ever got owned that throughly I'd try to ignore it also. Edited April 9, 2012 by MaceCase