Josh Smith: Severely underrated and under-appreciated

[Joker]

Yes, I know. I am not the biggest Josh Smith fan. But I was looking at his stats and I can help but think he is the unlucky version of Rajon Rondo. Severely flawed but extremely talented but unlike Rondo, he doesn't have the pieces around him where he needs to succeed. I can see why AHawks89 is always mad. Smoove has superstar talent. He's right, Smoove does have talent. Of course he doesn't have Hall of Fame elite talent but he could be a superstar in the same right as Rondo. Look at this:eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e48413.9 James,Lebron Mia 38 .593 31.0 8.6 6.7 1.8 3.4 .8 2.9012.4 Durant,Kevin Okl 39 .598 29.3 8.0 3.6 1.3 3.6 1.1 2.3510.6 Smith,Josh Atl 35 .490 21.7 10.8 4.2 1.5 2.6 1.8 2.2110.6 Griffin,Blake LAC 36 .545 23.1 12.2 3.2 .9 2.3 .7 2.1410.2 Howard,Dwight Orl 38 .550 22.1 14.9 2.1 1.4 3.1 2.2 2.3810.1 Love,Kevin Min 39 .555 25.3 12.9 1.9 .8 2.2 .5 2.279.7 Westbrook,Russel Okl 35 .529 26.3 5.0 6.5 1.8 3.8 .3 2.009.3 Jefferson,Al Uta 34 .515 21.8 11.1 2.6 .8 1.1 1.7 2.189.2 Bryant,Kobe LAL 39 .517 28.6 5.3 3.9 1.1 3.4 .3 1.999.0 Bynum,Andrew LAL 35 .582 21.8 12.8 1.4 .5 2.7 2.0 2.06eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4848.9 Paul,Chris LAC 36 .571 22.3 4.0 8.3 2.6 2.1 .1 1.978.9 Gasol,Pau LAL 37 .539 18.6 10.6 3.6 .6 2.2 1.3 1.778.5 Nowitzki,Dirk Dal 33 .553 26.6 7.8 2.4 .8 2.1 .6 2.018.2 Wade,Dwyane Mia 33 .549 28.1 6.0 5.8 1.9 3.0 1.5 2.458.2 Garnett,Kevin Bos 31 .543 22.2 10.7 3.6 1.1 2.1 1.3 2.118.1 Anthony,Carmelo NYK 34 .515 26.7 7.3 4.5 1.3 2.9 .5 2.098.0 Cousins,Demarcus Sac 30 .489 21.1 13.6 1.8 1.8 3.3 1.4 2.008.0 Monroe,Greg Det 32 .553 19.9 12.6 2.6 1.5 2.9 .9 1.867.9 Millsap,Paul Uta 33 .537 19.8 10.5 2.7 2.1 2.0 .9 1.837.9 Boozer,Carlos Chi 30 .544 22.7 11.2 2.6 1.2 2.2 .4 1.97eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4847.9 Pierce,Paul Bos 34 .556 25.0 6.1 4.5 1.3 3.1 .5 1.847.9 Gortat,Marcin Phx 32 .568 18.8 12.1 1.1 .9 1.6 1.7 1.807.8 Duncan,Tim SAS 28 .522 21.8 12.7 3.2 .9 2.2 2.0 2.317.8 Aldridge,Lamarcu Por 36 .551 23.4 8.8 2.6 .9 2.1 .8 1.887.7 Gasol,Marc Mem 36 .530 16.5 9.7 3.2 1.0 1.9 1.8 1.577.4 Parker,Tony SAS 32 .531 22.6 3.5 9.5 1.1 3.0 .1 1.867.3 Gay,Rudy Mem 37 .514 20.7 6.8 2.3 1.5 2.5 .8 1.467.1 Bosh,Chris Mia 35 .541 21.5 9.2 2.1 .9 2.2 .8 1.716.9 Jennings,Brandon Mil 35 .508 20.4 3.6 5.4 1.7 2.3 .3 1.446.9 Hibbert,Roy Ind 30 .530 17.7 11.4 2.5 .6 2.5 2.4 1.73eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.8 Lee,David GSW 37 .540 20.2 9.8 2.6 1.0 2.6 .4 1.566.8 Anderson,Ryan Orl 32 .582 21.1 9.5 1.1 1.0 1.1 .5 1.676.7 Williams,Deron NJN 36 .518 21.9 3.6 8.6 1.2 4.1 .4 1.636.6 Noah,Joakim Chi 30 .551 15.0 12.5 3.1 .8 1.8 1.7 1.656.6 Granger,Danny Ind 33 .533 22.9 5.7 2.2 1.1 2.0 .7 1.546.5 Johnson,Joe Atl 35 .551 22.4 4.2 4.0 .8 2.0 .2 1.476.4 Humphries,Kris NJN 35 .528 15.1 12.5 1.6 .9 2.1 1.3 1.436.1 Rose,Derrick Chi 35 .523 27.1 3.6 8.0 .9 3.2 .7 2.176.1 Wall,John Was 36 .491 16.9 4.8 6.9 1.5 4.0 .9 1.246.1 Jamison,Antawn Cle 33 .474 19.2 7.4 2.1 .9 1.6 .7 1.37eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.0 Ibaka,Serge Okl 27 .549 13.6 11.0 .7 .7 1.7 4.9 1.626.0 West,David Ind 29 .524 18.0 8.8 3.3 1.0 1.8 .9 1.505.8 Lawson,Ty Den 35 .571 18.0 4.3 6.8 1.4 2.6 .1 1.335.8 Chandler,Tyson NYK 33 .682 14.7 11.8 1.2 1.0 1.8 1.6 1.375.8 Iguodala,Andre Phi 36 .527 15.0 6.5 5.0 1.8 1.9 .5 1.265.7 Rondo,Rajon Bos 37 .475 13.5 5.2 11.9 1.8 3.7 .1 1.415.6 Nash,Steve Phx 32 .617 15.8 3.7 12.4 .7 4.4 .2 1.385.6 Ilyasova,Ersan Mil 28 .568 18.1 11.8 1.5 .9 1.7 .9 1.625.5 Brand,Elton Phi 29 .516 16.5 9.5 1.9 1.3 1.4 2.2 1.545.5 Scola,Luis Hou 31 .519 19.5 8.3 2.7 .6 2.8 .4 1.29Josh had 3rd highest eWins in the NBA. Josh Smith, in the last 4 installments, rose from 8th, to 7th, to 4th, to 3rd in the league.He wasn't even an all-star, nor has he ever been.Players who have (since 1974) averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 reb, 3.9 ast, 1.4 stl, and 1.7 blk per game:Kareem (3 times), Garnett (3x), Webber (twice), David Robinson, Bob Lanier, and Josh Smith this year.The Hawks were 22nd in pace and 6th in DRtg this year.Players with TReb% > 15.8, Ast% > 20.5, Stl% > 2, Blk% > 3.7 : Smoove this year and KG in 2004.He lead the NBA in defensive win shares. Stayed healthy in most of all his career. 5th in Defensive rebounds. Was in the top 10 once in his career in steals. High Defensive BBIQ. Great stamina outside of last year when he was fat. Extremely athletic and always explosive. 9th in blocks and is a constant in the top 10 for blocks. Now, bad Josh is also 7th in FG attempts without someone setting up his offense. Not good at all hence the low percentages but someone has to shoot without Al and Jamal. Joe isn't going to play out of his comfort zone. Still Josh is a top tier talent. Yes he doesn't fit but we should appreciate him because in the right system and personnel grouping, he would looked at much better just like Horford and Joe would as well.eWIns- equivalent wins. Assigning wins to players, according to their minutes and their productivity in those minutes. Called eWins, short for equivalent wins, as though all players were with average teams. Players blessed to be with elite teams, and those stuck on lousy teams are, in theory, given equivalent credit based on equivalent statistics, after scaling to team and opponent averages.With teams having played differing numbers of games, player eWins are scaled to the 66 games their teams will play, based on their minutes so far.eWins per 484 minutes are given, where 1.00 is NBA average productivity.

[Joker]

Josh also made the list for most improved players from a eWins standpoint as well.eW+ per36 rates tm Eff% Sco Reb Ast e484 2011 Eff% Sco Reb Ast e4842.82 Monroe,Greg Det .556 19.7 12.4 2.5 1.84 .563 12.9 10.9 1.6 1.132.74 Mullens,Byron Cha .473 14.4 8.2 1.1 .97 Okl .357 6.8 8.8 .0 -.062.67 Gortat,Marcin Phx .578 19.0 11.6 1.0 1.81 .584 14.3 10.9 1.2 1.152.61 Lin,Jeremy NYK .540 21.4 4.3 9.0 1.73 GSW .450 6.8 3.5 4.1 .392.58 Pekovic,Nikola Min .596 19.2 9.7 .9 1.39 .561 12.6 7.3 .9 .292.42 Hayward,Gordon Uta .550 14.8 4.5 3.6 .89 .568 11.1 4.1 2.2 .272.30 Cousins,Demarcus Sac .488 20.3 13.3 1.8 1.94 .474 16.7 12.1 3.0 1.312.23 Seraphin,Kevin Was .541 12.9 8.6 .9 .95 .474 6.6 7.4 .4 -.092.15 Smith,Josh Atl .486 21.2 10.6 4.1 2.22 .531 19.3 10.1 3.5 1.742.12 George,Paul Ind .548 16.4 7.1 3.3 1.25 .534 13.1 6.2 1.8 .68eW+ per36 rates tm Eff% Sco Reb Ast e484 2011 Eff% Sco Reb Ast e4842.06 Lucas,John Chi .480 18.0 3.5 5.0 1.11 .250 4.0 .0 3.1 -.441.82 Vasquez,Greivis NOH .518 13.4 3.9 6.2 .79 Mem .488 8.8 2.9 5.4 .221.80 Ilyasova,Ersan Mil .566 17.7 11.5 1.4 1.59 .511 14.8 9.3 1.3 1.031.71 Jefferson,Al Uta .520 21.7 10.8 2.5 2.17 .522 19.4 11.0 1.9 1.751.61 Harrington,Al Den .528 18.1 8.1 1.8 1.19 .521 14.6 6.8 2.1 .731.57 Harden,James Okl .632 20.2 4.7 4.2 1.31 .583 16.4 4.2 2.8 .911.56 Bradley,Avery Bos .539 13.2 3.3 2.3 .42 .356 7.9 3.2 2.0 -.211.51 Pachulia,Zaza Atl .543 11.3 10.8 1.7 .92 .543 9.6 9.2 1.4 .471.51 Jack,Jarrett NOH .533 18.4 4.6 5.7 1.27 .494 14.3 3.7 4.5 .791.50 Dragic,Goran Hou .557 16.5 3.6 6.8 1.12 .515 13.0 3.8 5.3 .65

[ATLSmith]

I completely agree. The Hawks really need to keep him if they can. The Hawks need to improve in other area's, not at Josh's position.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Awesome find but you still will have those who say he's the worst player and needs to be trade.Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

[Joker]

Awesome find but you still will have those who say he's the worst player and needs to be trade.Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

He wouldn't shine with the Squrs. They are too precised. He would shine with Nash, Wall, Curry. Basically up-tempo PG's with a lot of talent.

[ag82]

I thought we had been over this a million times already. He is an exceptional talent and will always put up good numbers. He just needs to play smarter and more consistently to be a solid go to guy (could be a #2 option) on a championship level team. For that, he is probably going to need a better coach than LD.

[AHF]

Or how about this quote people say on here.. "If he played with a team like the Spurs he would shine under a coach like that." O_o WTF??? Well, why trade him??? Hell, get a new coach! lol

You are preaching to the choir as far as a lot of us wanting to get someone outside of coaches he has already had for years working with him to get him to take the next step offensively and overall in his development.

[Joker]

The issue with Atlanta is simple.They don't fit.Joe is an excellent all around player who isn't a #1 option.Horford is an elite PnR PF who can't create his offense and never has had a very good or great PnR PG.Smith is the most impactful player on the team as he is the most talented but is severely flawed and needs the right personnel or else he can be highly undervalued by coaches, scouts, and fans alike no matter what.We got to make this fit. It will never fit with this unit but we have to make moves that make sense.

[thecampster]

Yes, I know. I am not the biggest Josh Smith fan. But I was looking at his stats and I can help but think he is the unlucky version of Rajon Rondo. Severely flawed but extremely talented but unlike Rondo, he doesn't have the pieces around him where he needs to succeed. I can see why AHawks89 is always mad. Smoove has superstar talent. He's right, Smoove does have talent. Of course he doesn't have Hall of Fame elite talent but he could be a superstar in the same right as Rondo. Look at this:eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e48413.9 James,Lebron Mia 38 .593 31.0 8.6 6.7 1.8 3.4 .8 2.9012.4 Durant,Kevin Okl 39 .598 29.3 8.0 3.6 1.3 3.6 1.1 2.3510.6 Smith,Josh Atl 35 .490 21.7 10.8 4.2 1.5 2.6 1.8 2.2110.6 Griffin,Blake LAC 36 .545 23.1 12.2 3.2 .9 2.3 .7 2.1410.2 Howard,Dwight Orl 38 .550 22.1 14.9 2.1 1.4 3.1 2.2 2.3810.1 Love,Kevin Min 39 .555 25.3 12.9 1.9 .8 2.2 .5 2.279.7 Westbrook,Russel Okl 35 .529 26.3 5.0 6.5 1.8 3.8 .3 2.009.3 Jefferson,Al Uta 34 .515 21.8 11.1 2.6 .8 1.1 1.7 2.189.2 Bryant,Kobe LAL 39 .517 28.6 5.3 3.9 1.1 3.4 .3 1.999.0 Bynum,Andrew LAL 35 .582 21.8 12.8 1.4 .5 2.7 2.0 2.06eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4848.9 Paul,Chris LAC 36 .571 22.3 4.0 8.3 2.6 2.1 .1 1.978.9 Gasol,Pau LAL 37 .539 18.6 10.6 3.6 .6 2.2 1.3 1.778.5 Nowitzki,Dirk Dal 33 .553 26.6 7.8 2.4 .8 2.1 .6 2.018.2 Wade,Dwyane Mia 33 .549 28.1 6.0 5.8 1.9 3.0 1.5 2.458.2 Garnett,Kevin Bos 31 .543 22.2 10.7 3.6 1.1 2.1 1.3 2.118.1 Anthony,Carmelo NYK 34 .515 26.7 7.3 4.5 1.3 2.9 .5 2.098.0 Cousins,Demarcus Sac 30 .489 21.1 13.6 1.8 1.8 3.3 1.4 2.008.0 Monroe,Greg Det 32 .553 19.9 12.6 2.6 1.5 2.9 .9 1.867.9 Millsap,Paul Uta 33 .537 19.8 10.5 2.7 2.1 2.0 .9 1.837.9 Boozer,Carlos Chi 30 .544 22.7 11.2 2.6 1.2 2.2 .4 1.97eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4847.9 Pierce,Paul Bos 34 .556 25.0 6.1 4.5 1.3 3.1 .5 1.847.9 Gortat,Marcin Phx 32 .568 18.8 12.1 1.1 .9 1.6 1.7 1.807.8 Duncan,Tim SAS 28 .522 21.8 12.7 3.2 .9 2.2 2.0 2.317.8 Aldridge,Lamarcu Por 36 .551 23.4 8.8 2.6 .9 2.1 .8 1.887.7 Gasol,Marc Mem 36 .530 16.5 9.7 3.2 1.0 1.9 1.8 1.577.4 Parker,Tony SAS 32 .531 22.6 3.5 9.5 1.1 3.0 .1 1.867.3 Gay,Rudy Mem 37 .514 20.7 6.8 2.3 1.5 2.5 .8 1.467.1 Bosh,Chris Mia 35 .541 21.5 9.2 2.1 .9 2.2 .8 1.716.9 Jennings,Brandon Mil 35 .508 20.4 3.6 5.4 1.7 2.3 .3 1.446.9 Hibbert,Roy Ind 30 .530 17.7 11.4 2.5 .6 2.5 2.4 1.73eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.8 Lee,David GSW 37 .540 20.2 9.8 2.6 1.0 2.6 .4 1.566.8 Anderson,Ryan Orl 32 .582 21.1 9.5 1.1 1.0 1.1 .5 1.676.7 Williams,Deron NJN 36 .518 21.9 3.6 8.6 1.2 4.1 .4 1.636.6 Noah,Joakim Chi 30 .551 15.0 12.5 3.1 .8 1.8 1.7 1.656.6 Granger,Danny Ind 33 .533 22.9 5.7 2.2 1.1 2.0 .7 1.546.5 Johnson,Joe Atl 35 .551 22.4 4.2 4.0 .8 2.0 .2 1.476.4 Humphries,Kris NJN 35 .528 15.1 12.5 1.6 .9 2.1 1.3 1.436.1 Rose,Derrick Chi 35 .523 27.1 3.6 8.0 .9 3.2 .7 2.176.1 Wall,John Was 36 .491 16.9 4.8 6.9 1.5 4.0 .9 1.246.1 Jamison,Antawn Cle 33 .474 19.2 7.4 2.1 .9 1.6 .7 1.37eWins per36 rates tm Min Eff% Sco Reb Ast Stl TO Blk e4846.0 Ibaka,Serge Okl 27 .549 13.6 11.0 .7 .7 1.7 4.9 1.626.0 West,David Ind 29 .524 18.0 8.8 3.3 1.0 1.8 .9 1.505.8 Lawson,Ty Den 35 .571 18.0 4.3 6.8 1.4 2.6 .1 1.335.8 Chandler,Tyson NYK 33 .682 14.7 11.8 1.2 1.0 1.8 1.6 1.375.8 Iguodala,Andre Phi 36 .527 15.0 6.5 5.0 1.8 1.9 .5 1.265.7 Rondo,Rajon Bos 37 .475 13.5 5.2 11.9 1.8 3.7 .1 1.415.6 Nash,Steve Phx 32 .617 15.8 3.7 12.4 .7 4.4 .2 1.385.6 Ilyasova,Ersan Mil 28 .568 18.1 11.8 1.5 .9 1.7 .9 1.625.5 Brand,Elton Phi 29 .516 16.5 9.5 1.9 1.3 1.4 2.2 1.545.5 Scola,Luis Hou 31 .519 19.5 8.3 2.7 .6 2.8 .4 1.29Josh had 3rd highest eWins in the NBA.Josh Smith, in the last 4 installments, rose from 8th, to 7th, to 4th, to 3rd in the league.He wasn't even an all-star, nor has he ever been.Players who have (since 1974) averaged 18.8 pts, 9.6 reb, 3.9 ast, 1.4 stl, and 1.7 blk per game:Kareem (3 times), Garnett (3x), Webber (twice), David Robinson, Bob Lanier, and Josh Smith this year.The Hawks were 22nd in pace and 6th in DRtg this year.Players with TReb% > 15.8, Ast% > 20.5, Stl% > 2, Blk% > 3.7 : Smoove this year and KG in 2004.He lead the NBA in defensive win shares. Stayed healthy in most of all his career. 5th in Defensive rebounds. Was in the top 10 once in his career in steals. High Defensive BBIQ. Great stamina outside of last year when he was fat. Extremely athletic and always explosive. 9th in blocks and is a constant in the top 10 for blocks. Now, bad Josh is also 7th in FG attempts without someone setting up his offense. Not good at all hence the low percentages but someone has to shoot without Al and Jamal. Joe isn't going to play out of his comfort zone. Still Josh is a top tier talent. Yes he doesn't fit but we should appreciate him because in the right system and personnel grouping, he would looked at much better just like Horford and Joe would as well.eWIns- equivalent wins. Assigning wins to players, according to their minutes and their productivity in those minutes. Called eWins, short for equivalent wins, as though all players were with average teams. Players blessed to be with elite teams, and those stuck on lousy teams are, in theory, given equivalent credit based on equivalent statistics, after scaling to team and opponent averages.With teams having played differing numbers of games, player eWins are scaled to the 66 games their teams will play, based on their minutes so far.eWins per 484 minutes are given, where 1.00 is NBA average productivity.

I think the problem is that people love offense and Josh is not a put the ball in the basket guy. He is a "helps others put the ball in the basket" guy. He is a "stops the other team from putting the ball in the basket guy". Those 2 things are just as important as scoring but highly, highly overlooked by the casual fan.This is also why Al is so valuable. Al can not get his own shot as well, but shoots a better percentage and is only marginably less than Josh in the other 2 facets. These 2 are off limits in my book, everyone else is a possibility

[HawkItus]

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on. Look at the Olympic team. They don't even sniff around Josh. What does that tell you? He is bad for team ball. Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

[macdaddy]

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on. Look at the Olympic team. They don't even sniff around Josh. What does that tell you? He is bad for team ball. Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

Of course the team also won at a .600 clip this year.

[HawkItus]

Of course the team also won at a .600 clip this year.

The NBA is bad man. I would say that 50% of the league sucks. In the East your looking at 60% of the conference being bad teams. Even without Joe and Al, our bench had above average talent. How did we do against the playoff field? That tells you more. Josh is very talented, but he stresses your team as much as he helps it.

[Joker]

Honestly, these stats are about as worthless as a velvet painting of a Whale and a Dolphin getting it on. Look at the Olympic team. They don't even sniff around Josh. What does that tell you? He is bad for team ball. Yeah, him and bunch of scrubs he would shine, like he did when the team was all his this year for a while.

His half court offensive game isn't good, in fact, it's bad. He's an up-tempo player. I know in the playoffs no matter the team it's mainly half court but not everyone can do that. Steve Nash and Amare went to the Finals as a up-tempo team.I agree, he is not a championship player. But that doesn't means he is useless on offense. You just need the right personnel and the right system. Mainly the right personnel. The PG has to be a very good up-tempo PG. He would do extremely well with Lawson, Wall, Nash, etc. Edited May 21, 2012 by nbasuperstar40

[Joker]

The NBA is bad man. I would say that 50% of the league sucks. In the East your looking at 60% of the conference being bad teams. Even without Joe and Al, our bench had above average talent. How did we do against the playoff field? That tells you more. Josh is very talented, but he stresses your team as much as he helps it.

A lot of East teams suck. The only ones who missed the playoffs and is even below average is Milwaukee. The rest are terrible.

[Joker]

To say Josh stats is useless like he is SAR is absolutely wrong. Josh has very good impact but Josh poor play in half court offensive sets probably is what gets him a lot of low looks and what not.

[macdaddy]

The NBA is bad man. I would say that 50% of the league sucks. In the East your looking at 60% of the conference being bad teams. Even without Joe and Al, our bench had above average talent. How did we do against the playoff field? That tells you more. Josh is very talented, but he stresses your team as much as he helps it.

I agree that the lower half of the east is pathetic but I don't see where our bench had above average talent. Outside of Hinrich and Zaza those other guys wouldn't see the floor on most top playoff teams. I can think of no other player like Josh in this league. I guess shooting jumpers and missing is so obvious a flaw, and so easily corrected, that he deserves the criticism. But i also see his side of things. Joe repeatedly over dribbles in traffic and turns the ball over. All players have some glaring problems with their game but don't get nearly the criticism. At the same time Josh contributes more on the boards, on defense, shot-blocking and assists than most other players at his position.

[NineOhTheRino]

Do not under estimate the power one Josh smith has with these owners. Keeping Josh is the main reason ASG decided to pick up LD's option. bet that

[Jody23]

I wonder will everyone still be singing his praises after he walks out on the Hawks and leaves them with nothing. Will the same ones be lauding him then? Because you do know that if the Hawks don't trade him, then he's going to leave.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

I wonder will everyone still be singing his praises after he walks out on the Hawks and leaves them with nothing. Will the same ones be lauding him then? Because you do know that if the Hawks don't trade him, then he's going to leave.

I don't think that would happen because Can't they find this out by trying to sign him to an extension before his contract runs out?

[macdaddy]

I wonder will everyone still be singing his praises after he walks out on the Hawks and leaves them with nothing. Will the same ones be lauding him then? Because you do know that if the Hawks don't trade him, then he's going to leave.

Are we supposed to be mad at him for leaving when he's already said he wants out privately to the owners? If we get nothing for him its not his fault. He can't trade himself.