Josh and Gasol

[Buzzard]

Our team would be better if Gasol does not continue to decline. However, if his contract comes off the books will we be in a position to sign a difference maker ?

2 years from now if we have new money owner (s), Gasol comes off the books and amnetsy a decling JJ! We could be roughly 30 million under the cap.

[Buzzard]

If we could get 2 picks out of LA that would out us in a much better position going forward, because I don't think Gasol alone puts us over the top.

I don't think LA gives us two picks. But if they send one and we have one, that is two 1st round picks plus Gasol. It is a risk but staying pat is a horrible decision.

[Sothron]

Our team would be better if Gasol does not continue to decline. However, if his contract comes off the books will we be in a position to sign a difference maker ?

I think after the next two seasons not only would gasol's deal be off the books but we'd have either traded Joe or that would be the season they amnesty him. Joe's contract is about to start to get into the insanely bad range of 20 million and more each season.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The reason I think its a mistake is because we are already thin at both wing positions. Hell, we are thin overall. The Gasol trade is probably the best trade we can get if we can't resign Josh. However, we are still rolling the dice by picking him up. We don't know if he has the desire to play hard, his production is on the decline, and he is not tough both physically and mentally. We would be in win now mode with a team that still would be underdogs against Chicago and Miami. Once his contract is up, we will probably be left with nothing and then will be in full blown rebuild mode. About Marvin, he played well in the last game and kept us in the game early on. His regular season win share numbers goes to reinforce (forgot exactly who it was) some coach's comments about Marvin being one of the more under-rated players in the league.

A "declining" Gasol still averaged 17.4 ppg - 10.4 rebs - 3.5 asst . . 1.4 blks . . . shot 50% FG and 78% FTIt's not like Gasol is going to turn into a 12 ppg - 6 rebs - 1.8 asst . . 0.6 blks . . shoot 44% FG and 71% FT type of playerHe's a big man that uses his post game and his mid-range game to beat people . . not his athleticism. And his defense is nowhere near as bad as people think it is. His length is still a problem for most post players. It's not like Noah is going to go off and score 24 pts - 12 rebounds on Gasol.As for Marvin, I'm not nearly as down on him as other people, but his production is replaceable . . and has been replaced ever since Flip Murray started taking his minutes in 2008.Slide JJ to the SF spot. Find a few SGs to platoon there ( a defensive stopper and a shooter ), and the Hawks will be just fine.

[Joker]

Gasol doesn't make us better. That's the part you guys don't seem to understand. It's like this and that but he doesn't make us better. This is silly and on top of that we have to trade Marvin in this crappy deal. Gasol contract, age, regression, motivation to even play in Atlanta, and his mindset is the reason why I don't want no part in this whatsoever. Why hasn't this thread died yet. Diesel, continue upping this and I am upping my Teague thread again as well as some others.

[Buzzard]

Gasol doesn't make us better. That's the part you guys don't seem to understand. It's like this and that but he doesn't make us better. This is silly and on top of that we have to trade Marvin in this crappy deal. Gasol contract, age, regression, motivation to even play in Atlanta, and his mindset is the reason why I don't want no part in this whatsoever. Why hasn't this thread died yet. Diesel, continue upping this and I am upping my Teague thread again as well as some others.

I would say about 65 to 75% of the board wants this to happen so posting in it is just happening. Back to my response, No Gasol by himself will not put us over the top. But he makes us a better post team vs Josh day one. The rest will key on what we do with two 1st round picks in what most are calling the deepest draft in a decade and your favorite player, Mr Teague, 2nd season starting development and Big Al's development.If it or something similar happens I will be pumped, if we stay pat with the same core I am done until the ASG is gone!

[Diesel]

Unless we move way up in the draft he won't be there. I think Portland grabs him at 6 and if they don't he will go to them at 11 or be picked sooner by someone else. 16 is the latest I have seen any mock with him and I have a hard time beleiving the best offensive 7ft player in the draft will last that long.

I am no longer surprised on draft night. I have seen Smoove drop for 4th to 16th. I have seen Loren Woods drop from top 10 to Somewhere late in the 2nd. I have seen dude from FL drop from last pick of the lottery to last pick of the first round. Something tends to happen in war rooms. People get potentialitis and they ignore what they know. The Senior gets no love.There are some good players that I expect to drop farther than most project this year:Beal.Sullinger.Zeller?Multrie.Those guys will be gifts to the teams picking 20 something.

[Diesel]

Not really. We draft a damn center and get anyone to come in at the 2 or 3. JJ split his time between both SG and SF. So anyone even Hinrich would work just fine. But we need bigs not more tweeners!

I still push the Hinrich SNT for Brewer.Chicago wants and needs Hinrich. We would love to have Brewer once Marv is gone.Brewer and Joe will be lock down at the swing positions.

[Diesel]

If we could get 2 picks out of LA that would out us in a much better position going forward, because I don't think Gasol alone puts us over the top.

Don't get too greedy. Remember we're sending them an ending Josh. He's not worth that much. Getting Gasol and a pick is about as far as that goes.

[Vol4ever]

This is kinda funny. The Lakers will not trade Gasol straight up for Josh unless there is salary issues. You guys are way overrating Josh, he is not worth what you think around the league. Most teams around the league would not trade for him because he is a chemistry killer on the court and a huge attitude to deal with. The only reason the Lakers are considering moving Gasol is the fact both he and Bynum are low post players and are geting in each others way Bynum is better than Gasol, so one will have to go. I really dont think the Lakers will trade for Josh Smith........all of this banter was started after Magic made his comments on TV.

[Nicholasp27]

Id rather keep Marvin...he plays strong defense and is efficient on offense so he doesn't hurt us like a defensive chucker or a scoring matador does...He isn't so important as to be a deal breaker in getting gasol or Noah, but we should keep him if possible

[Diesel]

This is kinda funny. The Lakers will not trade Gasol straight up for Josh unless there is salary issues. You guys are way overrating Josh, he is not worth what you think around the league. Most teams around the league would not trade for him because he is a chemistry killer on the court and a huge attitude to deal with. The only reason the Lakers are considering moving Gasol is the fact both he and Bynum are low post players and are geting in each others way Bynum is better than Gasol, so one will have to go. I really dont think the Lakers will trade for Josh Smith........all of this banter was started after Magic made his comments on TV.

Well, there are salary issue. The Lakers want to extend Bynum. They also want to try to win and Gasol doesn't fit into Mike Brown's plan. Josh might not be the guy for LAL, however, his ending contract, his play, and everything else about the deal has to look good to them.

[AHF]

LA badly needs depth as well. Marvin would be a real plus for a team like that. He would actually fit in very well there. He could take only wide open jumpers -- which Kobe and Bynum would love -- and play solid D for them. He is versatile enough to give them minutes at both the SF and PF positions and for their team he would qualify as a "plus" guy as far as athleticism. I can see this having a lot of appeal for them.I don't expect, however, for them to give up two picks in such a deal. Gasol, a low $$ salary currently on the roster and one first round pick would be a best case scenario for Atlanta if they are going to make the trade, IMO.

[Joker]

LA badly needs depth as well. Marvin would be a real plus for a team like that. He would actually fit in very well there. He could take only wide open jumpers -- which Kobe and Bynum would love -- and play solid D for them. He is versatile enough to give them minutes at both the SF and PF positions and for their team he would qualify as a "plus" guy as far as athleticism. I can see this having a lot of appeal for them.I don't expect, however, for them to give up two picks in such a deal. Gasol, a low $$ salary currently on the roster and one first round pick would be a best case scenario for Atlanta if they are going to make the trade, IMO.

And we don't need depth. When did we magically get good enough to trade impact players and role players for regressing players with bad contracts? These are Hawks fans everyone. Common sense comes last to urges.

[AHF]

And we don't need depth. When did we magically get good enough to trade impact players and role players for regressing players with bad contracts? These are Hawks fans everyone. Common sense comes last to urges.

You have heard my view on this. I think Marvin is a marginal impact asset on a contract that an ownership group like the ASG can't justify with our revenue stream if we have a chance to unload him. I think Josh is a very attractive young player and that by sticking with Larry Drew as coach you are dooming him to sub-All-Star status by enabling his self-destructive offense. I think if Josh wants to leave that you have to look at this deal because 2 years of Gasol > 1 year of Josh (I know you think differently on this point). I view a Marvin/Smith for Gasol/first trade as a chance to change the team dynamic radically (as far as our offense) to try to break what is currently a lock on a first or second round exit but just as importantly a competitive bridge to 2 years from now when we should have new ownership and our cap situation will be one to more naturally support a rebuild than today. With the pick, you have a shot at getting an underpriced talent and the depth of this year's draft class strikes me as one that boosts the value of a pick in the mid to late 20's well above the value in many other years.

[Joker]

You know how I feel on Gasol. I know how you feel on Josh. I understand. I just don't agree but I respect your opinion. I don't even think LA has a draft pick this year.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Joker

[Guest Walter]

With the pick, you have a shot at getting an underpriced talent and the depth of this year's draft class strikes me as one that boosts the value of a pick in the mid to late 20's well above the value in many other years.

LA doesn't have a 1st rd pick in this year's draft. This draft's strength doesn't help this trade's argument.That's one of my problems with this deal. I think I'm on board for JS/Gasol exchange but the 1st isn't until next year. That's a problem given we would be positioning to win now by getting Gasol for 2 years. We need talent much less cheap talent if we take on Gasol's deal. W

[AHF]

LA doesn't have a 1st rd pick in this year's draft. This draft's strength doesn't help this trade's argument.That's one of my problems with this deal. I think I'm on board for JS/Gasol exchange but the 1st isn't until next year. That's a problem given we would be positioning to win now by getting Gasol for 2 years. We need talent much less cheap talent if we take on Gasol's deal. W

You guys are right on the draft pick. It does make the pick a less attractive part of the picture. A trade for Gasol is still an option 4 for me but I'm not sure how many other options are open to us:* 1 - Use Josh to get a star ala Josh for Dwight Howard.* 2 - Get a new coach committed to getting Josh to play to his strengths offensively and sign Josh to a solidly priced extension.* 3 - Get a good lottery pick for Josh. (Should be shopping JJ here).* 4 - Trade Josh for solid value with a player like Gasol.* 5 - Keep Josh without an extension and see what options open up during the season.

[Joker]

Gasol doesn't make us better. You have this belief that he makes us better, I think he makes us worse not to mention age, contract, and attitude.I just rather trade for a lesser talent like Noah who has heart and great for team ball instead of another Joe in Gasol. Building around Al makes more sense than doing the same thing we are doing now. Offense will improve with Gasol but get a lot worse on defense.

[AHF]

Gasol doesn't make us better. You have this belief that he makes us better, I think he makes us worse not to mention age, contract, and attitude.I just rather trade for a lesser talent like Noah who has heart and great for team ball instead of another Joe in Gasol. Building around Al makes more sense than doing the same thing we are doing now. Offense will improve with Gasol but get a lot worse on defense.

I don't know whether we would be better or not. I think our talent would be in the same ballpark as it is today but there would be a different dynamic with the team. Personally, I could see that improving us or us getting worse but most likely staying in the same range with improved offense and more struggles on defense minus both JS and MW. I feel with the current team under Larry Drew that I know exactly what I will get and that it isn't enough.Noah would also be an attractive piece given the potential synergy with Al Horford. I was hoping he would slide one more spot and we would take him with the #10 pick that was used on Law. It almost happened.