Josh and Gasol

[Joker]

We probably cut to the basket less than any team in the NBA so I'm not sure who these two spot up shooters you are referring to who are also good cutters. And Smoove being good at cutting to the basket? Are you freaking kidding me? That guy stands around and watches the ball more than anyone on the team.

No, we cut to the basket quite often. Look at the tape. I counted 34 times in one game this season. We just have crappy court vision especially at PG. The passing ability is horrible at PG as well.

[Admin]

Deron Williams?Steve Nash?I get those thread moved all the time and they are off the same premise as this one. So Diesel is under different rules than everyone else? He seems to make trade threads just as much as I do on the main page but his stay and mines our moved to death valley aka trade rumors.

If you have a problem with how I moderate the forum then take it up via PM. Otherwise leave it alone.

[Admin]

No, we cut to the basket quite often. Look at the tape. I counted 34 times in one game this season. We just have crappy court vision especially at PG. The passing ability is horrible at PG as well.

You're clearly watching a different team then the rest of us are. The Hawks probably have the most stagnant offense in the NBA and Marvin is the only starter (when he's starting) who actually moves without the ball on a regular basis. Joe does it sometimes coming off of a pick but he rarely ever cuts to the basket without the ball.

[EazyRoc]

Here you come again, seriously sista, have a chill pill. You always come around saying the same thing. I could really care less. If you didn't care or believe the crap you say, you wouldn't reply to me. I wish you wouldn't. You are starting to become something I promised Dolfan I wouldn't say.

Brown system was fine for Gasol when he was scoring v. Boston and Atlanta where they had a clear advantage but once Pau shrinks mentally, now Brown's system sucks. I love the Hawks board because I can count of silly POV's to the love and savior of Godness Gasol. He is a god around here. He is the European Wilt. He can create his own offense in the post at will. Can play center. He can defend like Smoove but the problem is he is none of that. He is a soft finesse PF who is best when Odom and Kobe create offense for him as if that will happen in Atlanta and he is also regressing but I have no credibility. I don't want your respect, that would be to disrespect my logic. I don't want nothing from you woman.

LOL, there is nothing similar to Gasol and Horf. LOL. They take the same space. Look at the tape and the freakin charts. Look at the stats, they do the same crap it's just that Horf is a much better movement guy while Gasol rather be around the glass but both stay in the paint most of the time. Both are highly finesse and don't like contact all that much. Both players can disappear if they don't receive the ball which is highly likely in Atlanta ball dominant offense. Gasol is also regressing. This has fail written all over it. I rather have Smoove any day just because of his defense alone.

This.

[Joker]

I think the thing you miss is that even if we were to get John Stockton, we wouldn't become the Utah Jazz. LD's offense is motion. About 10% of that is PNR (the way he runs it). The thing is that if LD wanted to run more PNR, he would. PNR is not just a PG offense... especially not in the motion. Or maybe you didn't know that. So what the other poster was saying is that us getting a PNR PG doesn't mean that we will all the sudden change our offensive scheme.You missed the big thing Scout.You missed us reuping LD. When that happened, everything changed. He hasn't been bad but he's cheap. We don't have a PNR coach.

The flex motion offense is the same damn thing we do. The difference is Stockton running it and Teague running it is night and day. We run a lot of PnR but we stopped a lot of it this year due to the PG ability in it to create for others. He's damn near Jamal like at it with less vision. With Bibby under LD, we ran the PnR more than any other play. It mainly lead to the PnP or Bibby passing it to Joe.Diesel, I won't attack you since Dol said not to so I will leave it at that.

[Joker]

You're clearly watching a different team then the rest of us are. The Hawks probably have the most stagnant offense in the NBA and Marvin is the only starter (when he's starting) who actually moves without the ball on a regular basis. Joe does it sometimes coming off of a pick but he rarely ever cuts to the basket without the ball.

We have no #1 option. We have no PG at all. This is generally what happens. Look at OKC and Miami, they have superior players and same issues. Marvin is an excellent movement forward. Joe can do every damn thing just nothing great. Horford is elite at movement. Smoove is a good cutter within a playcall. But if the PG can't run the right play and make timely reads, what good does it do us. We aren't Miami or OKC. We can't win on players taking over making hard shot after shot. We need someone who can create at a high level and with excellent court vision.

[Admin]

The flex motion offense is the same damn thing we do. The difference is Stockton running it and Teague running it is night and day. We run a lot of PnR but we stopped a lot of it this year due to the PG ability in it to create for others. He's damn near Jamal like at it with less vision. With Bibby under LD, we ran the PnR more than any other play. It mainly lead to the PnP or Bibby passing it to Joe.Diesel, I won't attack you since Dol said not to so I will leave it at that.

We stopped what little PnR we ran because Horford got hurt and he's the only PnR player on our roster since Josh likes to camp around at the 3pt line instead of setting picks. Zaza tries but he's not a weapon as a mid-range shooter and he's slow as well so the PnR with him is easily defended.

[Sothron]

I think it is a fair statement to say that the people who like the idea of Josh/Gasol have explained why and the one guy who doesn't like it has told us many, many times why it isn't a good trade. What's left to kick the tires on?

[Admin]

We have no #1 option. We have no PG at all. This is generally what happens. Look at OKC and Miami, they have superior players and same issues. Marvin is an excellent movement forward. Joe can do every damn thing just nothing great. Horford is elite at movement. Smoove is a good cutter within a playcall. But if the PG can't run the right play and make timely reads, what good does it do us. We aren't Miami or OKC. We can't win on players taking over making hard shot after shot. We need someone who can create at a high level and with excellent court vision.

I don't disagree that we need a PG with better vision, I just disagree that he must be some master of an offense that we barely run. And you can hope and wish all day long that Joe and Josh will be great in a PnR based offense but Josh is lazy and Joe is afraid of contact at the rim so neither of them are going to be rolling to the basket.

I think it is a fair statement to say that the people who like the idea of Josh/Gasol have explained why and the one guy who doesn't like it has told us many, many times why it isn't a good trade. What's left to kick the tires on?

Maybe we can talk about how you feel about the ASG?

[Joker]

We stopped what little PnR we ran because Horford got hurt and he's the only PnR player on our roster since Josh likes to camp around at the 3pt line instead of setting picks. Zaza tries but he's not a weapon as a mid-range shooter and he's slow as well so the PnR with him is easily defended.

We cut a lot of the PnR when Hinrich was the PG as well. Teague's idea of the PnR is to not feel his man and attack the paint at will. Not saying it doesn't lead to good results at times but it's far from a bread and butter type of play. Teague treats the PnR like Westbrook does but with worse results.

[Joker]

Josh has low offensive BBIQ, he could never be more than below average at the PnR.

[Sothron]

In Memphis he was inconsistent as a #1 option and he was 6 years younger. Bynum helps Gasol on defense and on the boards and Kobe helps Gasol times a million since he is a #1 option and a superstar. To even down Kobe is the pure stupidity of this forum adulation of Gasol. He has become Wilt on this forum. Even though Atlanta is a terrible fit, he doesn't have an elite Batman and Horford and him are BOTH PF's. This is stupid. Please get a PnR PG and end the cycle of stupidity.

SAR stats in Atlanta:

Two seasons and more than half:

19.8 PER

19.9 PER

19.9 PER

Gross stats:

21.2 ppg 9.0 rpg TS% .536

19.9 ppg 8.4 rpg TS% .566

20.1 ppg 9.3 rpg TS% .568

The fact you seem to think he wasn't good in Atlanta is simply and patently absurd. The man put up close to 20/10 on good shooting and was a good defender. He was the last time we had a true low post threat as well. The fact you seem to hate SAR and Gasol equally only further strengthens how good Gasol is and how good I feel Gasol could do here.

And btw since you seem to encourage Josh's shooting woes it is only fair to point out Josh had a true shooting percentage of .499. That is beyond horrible.

[Admin]

SAR was definitely a good player for us and vastly underrated... but man I'm glad we don't have to see him hold onto the ball in the paint for too long and then have it stripped away anymore.

[Joker]

I don't care about SAR stats, I watched him play. He was ass. He was probably the most blocked player in NBA history with his stupid go to move. The only decent team he was on, he was averaging 10ppg. He was terrible. Just awful, you want to call Smoove stats a wash but Smoove actually has a major impact. SAR was the biggest fraud in NBA history. I hate SAR.

[Joker]

SAR is vastly overrated if you think he is anything more than trash. He was probably the 4th best player on those teams. I would take Mad Dog, Ratliff, Nazr, and JT over SAR anyday of the week. He had some talent but was like a low post version of Corey Maggette.

[Sothron]

I don't care about SAR stats, I watched him play. He was ass. He was probably the most blocked player in NBA history with his stupid go to move. The only decent team he was on, he was averaging 10ppg. He was terrible. Just awful, you want to call Smoove stats a wash but Smoove actually has a major impact. SAR was the biggest fraud in NBA history. I hate SAR.

I can't put into words how completely wrong you are. And yes, I love SAR. He was fantastic for us and was surrounded by bad talent and yet he still quietly put up 20/10 numbers on good shooting, played good defense and never complained. I have to honestly question how much of the game of basketball you know if you hate a player like this.

[Sothron]

SAR was definitely a good player for us and vastly underrated... but man I'm glad we don't have to see him hold onto the ball in the paint for too long and then have it stripped away anymore.

Honestly? I'd trade Josh Smith in a nanosecond to get SAR back in his prime and with no knee injuries. He would be great on our team now as opposed to .499 true shooting Josh Smith.

[Joker]

Honestly? I'd trade Josh Smith in a nanosecond to get SAR back in his prime and with no knee injuries. He would be great on our team now as opposed to .499 true shooting Josh Smith.

You couldn't pay me enough to do something that crazy. Smith>>>SAR. I would rather Zaza than SAR. You can question me all you want but look at the W/L, the tape, and his overall impact. I don't like negative impact players. Guys like SAR, Gooden, and Maggette are players I NEVER want on my team.

[Joker]

I don't even want him for the MLE in his prime.

[Joker]

How the hell do you want SAR over Smoove? Seriously how?