Josh and Gasol

[Watchman]

I think it's apples and oranges. These two players are polar opposites all the way around. SAR carried a double team around like an umbrella on a rainy day. I have never seen Josh Doubled by design. Josh has a defensive impact, SAR doesn't. SAR had low post scoring down to a science, Josh barely visits the low post. SAR probably put up about 4 three pointers over his career, Josh does that in his first quarter of play of a game. Interestingly enough, they were both from Atlanta. I really liked SAR because he brought a much needed skillset and he was good at it. Josh on the other hand is good at Defense and things that require athleticism.. however, what everybody has to agree on is that Josh's impact is high but his BBIQ isn't.

And, SAR was good at drawing fouls and actually making his free throws. He did get his shot blocked a good bit but I've been surprised to see how many of Smith's shots get blocked. How can someone with that kind of hops get blocked so frequently?

[Admin]

I think it's apples and oranges. These two players are polar opposites all the way around. SAR carried a double team around like an umbrella on a rainy day. I have never seen Josh Doubled by design. Josh has a defensive impact, SAR doesn't. SAR had low post scoring down to a science, Josh barely visits the low post. SAR probably put up about 4 three pointers over his career, Josh does that in his first quarter of play of a game. Interestingly enough, they were both from Atlanta. I really liked SAR because he brought a much needed skillset and he was good at it. Josh on the other hand is good at Defense and things that require athleticism.. however, what everybody has to agree on is that Josh's impact is high but his BBIQ isn't.

Hard to argue with this. They're both excellent at what they're best at, but I just have to go with the 2 way player vs the 1 way player.

[Diesel]

Hard to argue with this. They're both excellent at what they're best at, but I just have to go with the 2 way player vs the 1 way player.

Are you saying that you would rather have Andrew Bogut over Deke in his prime?Of course not. It all depends on Situation and how good that 1 way player was.Moreover, Josh delivers a defensive impact, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a good defender.

[Admin]

Are you saying that you would rather have Andrew Bogut over Deke in his prime?Of course not. It all depends on Situation and how good that 1 way player was.Moreover, Josh delivers a defensive impact, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a good defender.

I don't really consider Bogut a 2 way player. Now, would I take Dwight over Deke in his prime? hell yes. Would I have taken Alonzo Mourning over Deke in his prime? Hell yes.I'm not saying that Josh is a good positional defender, but he does make a huge positive defensive impact and that shows by his being #1 or #2 in defensive win shares.

[Diesel]

I don't really consider Bogut a 2 way player. Now, would I take Dwight over Deke in his prime? hell yes. Would I have taken Alonzo Mourning over Deke in his prime? Hell yes.I'm not saying that Josh is a good positional defender, but he does make a huge positive defensive impact and that shows by his being #1 or #2 in defensive win shares.

The question is why would you not consider Bogut a two way player?

[AHF]

The question is why would you not consider Bogut a two way player?

I think he has been reasonably effective on both sides of the ball and would consider him a two way player.

[Admin]

The question is why would you not consider Bogut a two way player?

He's a good player when healthy but he doesn't take over games on either end, let alone both sides like Josh does.

[EazyRoc]

Bogut is a great defensive player, but has not proven to nearly as effective offensively.

[Joker]

Bogut is a great defensive player, but has not proven to nearly as effective offensively.

Bogut can't stay healthy either.

[Diesel]

His health doesn't determine his style of play.I would say he's a two way player.I think because he doesn't have the hall of fame pedigree that you want that you will immediately eliminate him from the analogy but Smoove is no hall of famer neither. Neither is SAR.. but at least SAR is a 20/10 player which is more akin to Deke and his shot blocks and rebounds.. than Smoove is in anyway compariable to Dwight Howard or Alonzo Morning.

[Joker]

Smoove has a shot at the HOF, he just has to go to the right fit with the right personnel. SAR is a legit candidate for the Hall of Shame.

[Sothron]

Smoove has a shot at the HOF, he just has to go to the right fit with the right personnel. SAR is a legit candidate for the Hall of Shame.

Do you have any idea how outright laughable and deluded you sound making statements like this? A 20/10 player should be in the "Hall of Shame" LOL ok there kid.

[Joker]

Do you have any idea how outright laughable and deluded you sound making statements like this? A 20/10 player should be in the "Hall of Shame" LOL ok there kid.

Look at his impact on wins and losses son, he is the big man's Corey Maggette. Edited June 7, 2012 by Joker

[Admin]

His health doesn't determine his style of play.I would say he's a two way player.I think because he doesn't have the hall of fame pedigree that you want that you will immediately eliminate him from the analogy but Smoove is no hall of famer neither. Neither is SAR.. but at least SAR is a 20/10 player which is more akin to Deke and his shot blocks and rebounds.. than Smoove is in anyway compariable to Dwight Howard or Alonzo Morning.

It has nothing to do with being a HOF player. And yes his healthy absolutely does determine his play. To be a true 2 way player, in my eyes, you HAVE TO be able to take over a game on both ends and Bogut is not able to do that. When he's constantly nursing some injury that limits his impact even more. Even when healthy, nobody is intimidated by him offensively or defensively and he can't just take over a game at either end at will. Sure he'll have some quarters or maybe even a game here and there where he's an impactful player, but I just don't see him in the same class as Josh as far as being a 2 way player.I agree that neither SAR nor Smoove are HOF players. If Smoove were 2" taller he'd absolutely be comparable to Alonzo (although Alonzo is clearly the better player as it stands). As it is he feels the need to try and score too much outside and that limits his scoring. Still though, look at their career #'s.Alonzo averaged 17.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 2.8bpg and 1.1apgJ Smith averaged 15.1ppg, 7.9rpg, 2.2bpg and 3.1apgThat's with Josh being an undersized PF who shoots far too much from the outside, while Alonzo knew his role and dominated inside.

[Admin]

Do you have any idea how outright laughable and deluded you sound making statements like this? A 20/10 player should be in the "Hall of Shame" LOL ok there kid.

Look at his impact on wins and losses son, he is the big man's Corey Maggette.

There's no need for the kid and son remarks. Please keep it civil.And joker, you need to realize that SAR never played on a roster that was put together well and never played for a good coach either, at least not that I can remember. The "best" team he played on included an undersized SG trying to play PG in Jason Terry, an aging Glenn Robinson, a broken down and severely undersized for position Theo Ratliff and Dion freaking Glover. So saying that he didn't have impact on wins and losses is kind of ridiculous since nobody short of a superstar was going to win much with that group.

[Joker]

There's no need for the kid and son remarks. Please keep it civil.And joker, you need to realize that SAR never played on a roster that was put together well and never played for a good coach either, at least not that I can remember. The "best" team he played on included an undersized SG trying to play PG in Jason Terry, an aging Glenn Robinson, a broken down and severely undersized for position Theo Ratliff and Dion freaking Glover. So saying that he didn't have impact on wins and losses is kind of ridiculous since nobody short of a superstar was going to win much with that group.

Outside of Joe, the difference between those Hawks and these Hawks aren't that great except Josh is a superior player to SAR like Lebron is a superior player to Josh. Josh lead these Hawks in a much better NBA to a winning record and a 4th seed. SAR was fighting with teams who best players were Hinrich and Deng or Iggy or even teams like Toronto was better. I would take Ratliff and Nazr over any center at that time on this current roster.I never seen such a loser before like SAR. I hate everything about him, we make a major improvement when he was traded.

[coachx]

Outside of Joe, the difference between those Hawks and these Hawks aren't that great

Agree with your 1st line.There is a HUGE difference between Dion freaking Glover and JJ.Put Joe Johnson on that team with JT in the backcourt with Reef in the post and you may have something. At the least its playoff team like this years 2011-12 team was.Put Dion Glover on the 2011-12 Hawks, minus Joe, and this team misses the playoffs just like SAR's Hawks teams did. No way Josh Smith could carry the scoring load for this starting 5: Teague / Glover / Marvin / Smith / ZaZa. That would be an absolute train wreck. Edited June 7, 2012 by coachx

[Diesel]

It has nothing to do with being a HOF player. And yes his healthy absolutely does determine his play. To be a true 2 way player, in my eyes, you HAVE TO be able to take over a game on both ends and Bogut is not able to do that. When he's constantly nursing some injury that limits his impact even more. Even when healthy, nobody is intimidated by him offensively or defensively and he can't just take over a game at either end at will. Sure he'll have some quarters or maybe even a game here and there where he's an impactful player, but I just don't see him in the same class as Josh as far as being a 2 way player.I agree that neither SAR nor Smoove are HOF players. If Smoove were 2" taller he'd absolutely be comparable to Alonzo (although Alonzo is clearly the better player as it stands). As it is he feels the need to try and score too much outside and that limits his scoring. Still though, look at their career #'s.Alonzo averaged 17.1ppg, 8.5rpg, 2.8bpg and 1.1apgJ Smith averaged 15.1ppg, 7.9rpg, 2.2bpg and 3.1apgThat's with Josh being an undersized PF who shoots far too much from the outside, while Alonzo knew his role and dominated inside.

There's nothing consistent in Josh.If you say that he can take over an offense, you can say the same about the Crawford.Smoove may take over and get you what you want in one quarter and then piss it all away in the next.

[Joker]

But he wasn't playing in 2002-03 either. Teams in the East who made the playoffs were trash. Smith would be one of the best players in the NBA in 2002.

[Joker]

SAR is not even any good. Stop putting him the same list with Smith. Smith is actually really good. I am not even a fan of this guy due to me liking championship players but guys like SAR and guys you guys are overrating like Gasol isn't going to do. You guys just turned your backs on Smith for a soft Euro who is more finesse than Horf.