If you could, would trade JJ for a lottery pick?

[thecampster]

Now moving forward with "the plan". I love Jeff Teague. But this isn't about liking a player. This is about "The Plan".If there was any way to move Teague, Marvin or Zaza to move up high enough in the draft for Kendall Marshall (14th should do it), you do it and don't look back. Ignore his defense, he is a legit pass first creator.If there is any way to move JJ for a player plus 6-10 and you can replace him with Brandon Beal who is a good shooting combo guard. Cleveland for Luke Walton and the 4th pick would work. Then with the 23rd pick, you pray Fab Melo is still there and you take him.Let's assume you move Teague to Phoenix for the 13th pick and draft Marshall. Move JJ to Cleveland for Walton, filler and the 4th pick. You then have.MarshallBealSmith/Marvin/WaltonHorford/IvanPachulia/Fab MeloIn committed Salaries you are still below the cap (about 51 million plus cap holds)..no where near the LT and only 4 spots to fill. That is a plan...You now have the point guard to run pick n roll, pick n pop with your 3 bigs, you have size and defense. Marvin and Walton would be expirings (Marvin does have a 7.5 player option)...you could resign Smith and make a run at quality free agents or trade for someone else's cap excess (a Marvin for a 14 million dollar player kind of a thing to get someone under the LT).Execute something like that and in 2013 Free Agents will take notice that you have a plan to win and are executing it.

[Diesel]

We lost in essence 2 drafts picks for a "win now" mentality. For a series win over the Magic. It stings now but trading away pieces, bad drafting, offering excessive contracts, not re-up'ing pieces and making them test the market (ie..bad blood) consistently cost us. At the time I was all for acquiring Hinrich and still love Kirk....but the price was too steep. I'm man enough to admit I was wrong.

Trading is a gamble. Always. But what if Hinrich didn't get injured and we pushed past Chicago? It would have been well worth it.

[Diesel]

Now moving forward with "the plan". I love Jeff Teague. But this isn't about liking a player. This is about "The Plan".If there was any way to move Teague, Marvin or Zaza to move up high enough in the draft for Kendall Marshall (14th should do it), you do it and don't look back. Ignore his defense, he is a legit pass first creator.If there is any way to move JJ for a player plus 6-10 and you can replace him with Brandon Beal who is a good shooting combo guard. Cleveland for Luke Walton and the 4th pick would work.Then with the 23rd pick, you pray Fab Melo is still there and you take him.Let's assume you move Teague to Phoenix for the 13th pick and draft Marshall. Move JJ to Cleveland for Walton, filler and the 4th pick. You then have.MarshallBealSmith/Marvin/WaltonHorford/IvanPachulia/Fab MeloIn committed Salaries you are still below the cap (about 51 million plus cap holds)..no where near the LT and only 4 spots to fill. That is a plan...You now have the point guard to run pick n roll, pick n pop with your 3 bigs, you have size and defense. Marvin and Walton would be expirings (Marvin does have a 7.5 player option)...you could resign Smith and make a run at quality free agents or trade for someone else's cap excess (a Marvin for a 14 million dollar player kind of a thing to get someone under the LT).Execute something like that and in 2013 Free Agents will take notice that you have a plan to win and are executing it.

That's the problem... Smith is not likely to resign. If he does resign it's because we gave him the max. He's not a max player. .. we'd hear the same things about Smoove that we have heard about JJ.Moreover, your plan has a lot of projects involved. Players often look good in college and are nothing special in the nba.

[thecampster]

That's the problem... Smith is not likely to resign. If he does resign it's because we gave him the max. He's not a max player. .. we'd hear the same things about Smoove that we have heard about JJ.Moreover, your plan has a lot of projects involved. Players often look good in college and are nothing special in the nba.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhaTKn8oFg8Marshall is no project. He is a point guard...true as can be.

[thecampster]

Bradley Beal can flat out shoot, the perfect complement for a draw and kick point guard.with Horford/Smith running pick n roll the SG double has to come and that leaves Beal in the corner for 3. It's Utah all over again. Beal and Marshall are ready right now.

[thecampster]

That's the problem... Smith is not likely to resign. If he does resign it's because we gave him the max. He's not a max player. .. we'd hear the same things about Smoove that we have heard about JJ.

Moreover, your plan has a lot of projects involved. Players often look good in college and are nothing special in the nba.

JJ is one or two years from an 8 million dollar a year player. Mark my words, JJ will be our 3rd option in 2 years. Best to get better now. Plan for the long haul, not win now.

[Nicholasp27]

It's very simple, reallyPeople that want to keep smoove are campaigning to dump joe for a bag of bugles because they know we can't resign smoove as we stand right now, even if he wanted to staySo you have plans that involve dumping an all-star and then overpaying smoove to play SF(!!!?!???!??!!!!!!??????????!!) and continue jacking up shots and ruining our offense and hindering the development of our other players all so they can see a few highlight blocks and never feel secure with even a 15 point lead because bad josh can always show up and be the other teams 6th man to catch them back up

[NineOhTheRino]

I don't understand why the Hawks would hold on to Joe for 2 more years. What has the guy done to deserve this level of trust? Forget about ASG, his contract, and all other surrounding circumstances. The fact is when he got here the Hawks were a joke, and all these years later the Hawks are still a joke.If we all agree that Joe Johnson's contract is indeed a bad contract why in the world would you not take whatever in return to get the contract off the books.

Edited June 4, 2012 by NineOhTheRino

[Joker]

I would prefer to keep Jeff at all cost. He's a damn good player and can help us win but he's not a starting PG in the NBA. He's a combo guard with no PG skills. He is not extremely talented like Westbrook where he can get away with it.

[Joker]

Now we're in a situation in which they MUST get this Josh Smith situation right. If they mess it up, the results could be catastrophic.

I agree.

[Diesel]

I don't understand why the Hawks would hold on to Joe for 2 more years. What has the guy done to deserve this level of trust? Forget about ASG, his contract, and all other surrounding circumstances. The fact is when he got here the Hawks were a joke, and all these years later the Hawks are still a joke.

If we all agree that Joe Johnson's contract is indeed a bad contract why in the world would you not take whatever in return to get the contract off the books.

first you say.. Forget the contract. Then you say... consider the contract.

Let's work on the forget the contract first...

Forgetting the contract and looking at the on-court Joe Johnson.

[*]6 time Allstar with the Hawks.

[*]Lead the Hawks in Scoring and Assist for Five years until Teague did assists this year.

[*]Well respected by the basketball community of coaches as one fo the hardest players to defense.

[*]Can defend both the Sf and the Sg position.

[*]Is the only player on this team that has the will and the ability to create for himself.

Adding Joe Johnson contract....

[*]Amnestying Joe right now gets you nothing.

[*]Joe's still playing at an allstar level right now.

[AHF]

Adding Joe Johnson contract....

[*]Amnestying Joe right now gets you nothing.

[*]Joe's still playing at an allstar level right now.

There should be no consideration of amnestying JJ, IMO.

That is very different than getting a lottery pick.

All this, however, is secondary to getting new owners who can set a direction for the franchise.

[Diesel]

There should be no consideration of amnestying JJ, IMO.That is very different than getting a lottery pick.All this, however, is secondary to getting new owners who can set a direction for the franchise.

I think new owners can make a difference, it could be good or bad, but I just hope our next owners have money and are more willing to go after a winner than the bottom line.

[thecampster]

There should be no consideration of amnestying JJ, IMO.

That is very different than getting a lottery pick.

All this, however, is secondary to getting new owners who can set a direction for the franchise.

Exactly and like I said, Cleveland seems to be the perfect target to offload Joe's contract, get a high level pick and player in return.

[Guest Walter]

Exactly and like I said, Cleveland seems to be the perfect target to offload Joe's contract, get a high level pick and player in return.

I don't see how JJ is "perfect" for Cleveland other than he can't walk for many years. Regardless, there is NO WAY they give up the 4th overall pick for JJ. None. IMO a team that would want JJ badly enough to take his contract and give us a lottery pick would be a team "one player away" from jumping out of the lottery into the playoffs. IMO that's GS who I think already improved with the trade for Bogut. Portland would also be a team although I'm not certain they have the contracts to = JJ's salary and they would give up 11, not 6. I really see GS, Portland, Houston, and maybe Sacramento as the only lottery teams that would have any interest in JJ.

[warcore]

Walter, you don't think Toronto would make the playoffs if they added Joe, Valanciunas and had Bargnani healthy?Even though, they could probably get better i.e. Rudy Gay / Iggy

[thecampster]

I don't see how JJ is "perfect" for Cleveland other than he can't walk for many years. Regardless, there is NO WAY they give up the 4th overall pick for JJ. None. IMO a team that would want JJ badly enough to take his contract and give us a lottery pick would be a team "one player away" from jumping out of the lottery into the playoffs. IMO that's GS who I think already improved with the trade for Bogut. Portland would also be a team although I'm not certain they have the contracts to = JJ's salary and they would give up 11, not 6. I really see GS, Portland, Houston, and maybe Sacramento as the only lottery teams that would have any interest in JJ.

Add Joe to Kyrie Irving and you have a good back court. IrvingJJGeeJamisonVarejaoIs a nice starting 5. Contender, no but back in the playoffs...probably. They have a second 1st round pick (24) and an early 2nd round pick. They need to sell tickets and have salary room.

[Joker]

We haven't even used Joe up to his potential, why trade him for?

Edited June 5, 2012 by Joker

[NineOhTheRino]

We haven't even used Joe up to his potential, why trade him for?

Excuse me for being harsh, but JJ and potential should never be used in the same sentence. We've seen the best of Joe. There is no potential left. From this point on the Hawks should only expect diminishing returns.

[Joker]

Excuse me for being harsh, but JJ and potential should never be used in the same sentence. We've seen the best of Joe. There is no potential left. From this point on the Hawks should only expect diminishing returns.

We haven't used him to his potential. He needs to be a Robin, not a Batman. He doesn't fit that role at all. I don't care what FGA say, no one treats Josh like a #1 or even #2 option. They treat Joe like he's Kobe. Joe has potential to be more efficient and effective. More skilled or talented? No. Edited June 5, 2012 by Joker