For those of you who want scoring vs rebounding in the draft.

[EazyRoc]

Pau is career 9.2/game and 9.6 in playoffsSmoove is career 7.9/game and 8.6 in playoffsSmoove had one good year without al at 9.6 rebounds this year, a number pau has matched/beat the past 4 yearsJosh did have an outlier in a FIVE game series of 13.8 against the celtics but otherwise 9 was his previous best a much longer seriesPau has had double digits in playoffs 2 times in past 4 years with 23 games each, a more statistically significant sample sizePau also has a higher career reb% than smoove, the same drating and greater winshares/48 and of course much better offensive game overall and as a fit for our team

True, but Josh is 26 and Pau is like 31 or 32. Josh is improving and Pau is not. Joshs career numbers are likely to improve. We can speculate how Pau is a good fit offensively, but the fact is with almost the same usg% he's had with Lakers his numbers are getting worse. We can hope for a Steve Nash like career revival, but the odds are he continues to be less productive than he has been in previous years.

[Diesel]

True, but Josh is 26 and Pau is like 31 or 32. Josh is improving and Pau is not. Joshs career numbers are likely to improve. We can speculate how Pau is a good fit offensively, but the fact is with almost the same usg% he's had with Lakers his numbers are getting worse. We can hope for a Steve Nash like career revival, but the odds are he continues to be less productive than he has been in previous years.

Is Josh improving? If you mean when Horf is out, Josh gets more opportunities.. then yeah. However, what happens when Horf is back in again? For all the improvement we have seen in Josh, we have also seen destructive team behavior that will never allow him to really be what is needed to be competitive on a higher level.

[AHF]

That's all. We don't have the same destination.

I am not seeing that destination as being achievable under current ownership given our existing roster. You?

[AHF]

On Josh improving, if we are only getting 1 more year of Josh then I am not that concerned about career growth anymore. A big part of this depends on whether he is returning or is going to leave. Some not-so-good signs in that department.

[EazyRoc]

Is Josh improving? If you mean when Horf is out, Josh gets more opportunities.. then yeah. However, what happens when Horf is back in again? For all the improvement we have seen in Josh, we have also seen destructive team behavior that will never allow him to really be what is needed to be competitive on a higher level.

Josh is entering his prime. Of course, he's improving. Trying to blame our inability to compete at a higher level on one player is completely false.

[EazyRoc]

On Josh improving, if we are only getting 1 more year of Josh then I am not that concerned about career growth anymore. A big part of this depends on whether he is returning or is going to leave. Some not-so-good signs in that department.

True, but indepedant of him leaving, I still think he's improving defensively. Even though he takes dumb shots, his game (overall skills) has gotten better offensively too.

[AHF]

Josh is entering his prime. Of course, he's improving. Trying to blame our inability to compete at a higher level on one player is completely false.

I agree. Josh continues to improve almost everything but his shot selection (which gets worse instead of better and results in declining %s instead of improving ones).I just don't heavily weight improvement into the equation unless I think he will be here for a significant amount of time. The incremental improvement we might see year over year while being coached by Larry Drew won't be something that moves the needle. Edited June 5, 2012 by AHF

[High5]

That's all. We don't have the same destination.

We're a thousand miles away from winning a championship. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Jeff Teague (right now anyway), Marvin Williams, and the vet minimums that round out our bench...these are not championship players. Horford might be, but I still have my doubts about even him. I'm just being realistic. It would take a major overhaul, not just with the roster, but with the coaching and ownership for us to win the whole thing. So with that in mind, the ECF is an achievable, but lofty goal considering Atlanta has never made it that far.

[Joker]

We're a thousand miles away from winning a championship. Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Jeff Teague (right now anyway), Marvin Williams, and the vet minimums that round out our bench...these are not championship players. Horford might be, but I still have my doubts about even him. I'm just being realistic. It would take a major overhaul, not just with the roster, but with the coaching and ownership for us to win the whole thing. So with that in mind, the ECF is an achievable, but lofty goal considering Atlanta has never made it that far.

You think they are a thousand miles, I think they just need a true center and a PnR PG and they are right there.

[MaceCase]

You think they are a thousand miles, I think they just need a true center and a PnR PG and they are right there.

Seeing as the team has already traveled ten thousand miles and passed by only one rest stop advertising one of those things I would suggest that you take a more accurate stock of the distance. Either you woefully underestimate the availability of such pieces or you overestimate the effect of plugging in Andre Miller and Hasheem Thabeet would have on the team.

[Joker]

Seeing as the team has already traveled ten thousand miles and passed by only one rest stop advertising one of those things I would suggest that you take a more accurate stock of the distance.Either you woefully underestimate the availability of such pieces or you overestimate the effect of plugging in Andre Miller and Hasheem Thabeet would have on the team.

BSAndre Miller? Since when have I mentioned Miller. I am v. Miller at this stage of his career.Thabeet is nothing special, just a rim protector with height who blocks shots and rebounds above average. With Horf, he can stay on the court even with his horrible lateral quickness. He can be useful for us but nothing special, just a quality cheap signing.I swear you just talk CTC.

[AHF]

BSAndre Miller? Since when have I mentioned Miller. I am v. Miller at this stage of his career.Thabeet is nothing special, just a rim protector with height who blocks shots and rebounds above average. With Horf, he can stay on the court even with his horrible lateral quickness. He can be useful for us but nothing special, just a quality cheap signing.I swear you just talk CTC.

So Andre Miller and Thabeet arean't good enough.Who are these available pieces you see making us champions in the near future if we just make the right moves? I am struggling to remember the last impact UFA center who signed for a MLE. Marshall isn't going to be available at our pick so I assume your vision is for us to draft Machado. How do you add your impact center and do you really think Machado is a transformative player who moves us to champion contender?

[MaceCase]

BSAndre Miller? Since when have I mentioned Miller. I am v. Miller at this stage of his career.Thabeet is nothing special, just a rim protector with height who blocks shots and rebounds above average. With Horf, he can stay on the court even with his horrible lateral quickness. He can be useful for us but nothing special, just a quality cheap signing.I swear you just talk CTC.

No, you are just talk, Supe. You said the team is just a PnR PG and True C away from being in the Finals.......well Andre Miller is a PnR PG and Hasheem Thabeet is a True C. Those two are available and attainable and satisfy your assessment of the missing pieces the team needs for a championship run.....If you feel that your initial scouting assessment was indeed faulty and needs refinement then please do offer a more in depth one so as to avoid further confusion in the future.

[Joker]

A PnR PG is a playmaker. I would just say true PG if I was talking about Miller. Machado isn't ready yet, he can be in a year or two but he isn't ready yet. He can get 8 assist per a game as a rookie but his overall game isn't ready. Miller was a playmaker but now he's just a very good role player who can pass the rock.I want a PnR PG. Those guys can create for others.http://hoopspeak.com/college/2011/11/ionas-scott-machado-has-entered-elite-point-guard-territory/

[Joker]

So Andre Miller and Thabeet arean't good enough.Who are these available pieces you see making us champions in the near future if we just make the right moves? I am struggling to remember the last impact UFA center who signed for a MLE. Marshall isn't going to be available at our pick so I assume your vision is for us to draft Machado. How do you add your impact center and do you really think Machado is a transformative player who moves us to champion contender?

Machado isn't ready yet but Jeff can spot for a year till he's ready. Machado has a lot of talent but need some seasoning while Marshall is ready ASAP. Machado can be just as good as Marshall but with Horford he will be much better. Horford is a difference maker for playmaking PG's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8CK0R47N1Y

[Joker]

No, you are just talk, Supe. You said the team is just a PnR PG and True C away from being in the Finals.......well Andre Miller is a PnR PG and Hasheem Thabeet is a True C. Those two are available and attainable and satisfy your assessment of the missing pieces the team needs for a championship run.....If you feel that your initial scouting assessment was indeed faulty and needs refinement then please do offer a more in depth one so as to avoid further confusion in the future.

CTC, seriously son? Thabeet would just be a role player for us.Nothing special, Zaza is better. He is just someone who can protect the rim since Zaza can't do it. Smoove can but Smoove will probably be traded. Edited June 5, 2012 by Joker

[MaceCase]

Supe, perhaps you don't realize the world laughing at you and your assessments.....ironic considering thy you've decide to rename yourself "Joker". Your statement holds as much merit as any poster saying "get a superstar and we will win a ring". I took your statement to task and now you are backtracking off of it. You say all the team needs is a PnR pg and legit C.......well1) Why is it that you also don't believe just any one of those satisfy your criteria even though you stated it as such?2) Who else is logically available that would satisfy your criteria?Either way you are contradicting yourself.

[Joker]

Supe, perhaps you don't realize the world laughing at you and your assessments.....ironic considering thy you've decide to rename yourself "Joker". Your statement holds as much merit as any poster saying "get a superstar and we will win a ring". I took your statement to task and now you arebacktracking off of it. You say all the team needs is a PnR pg and legit C.......well1) Why is it that you also don't believe just any one of those satisfy your criteria even though you stated it as such?2) Who else is logically available that would satisfy your criteria?Either way you are contradicting yourself.

I am glad to know the world is as big as a jackass as you.Then again, since I know a lot of people who know a lot about Basketball who are superiors to clowns, they would agree with me 10 out of 10 times over you. You can't even read. I never stated I ever wanted guys like Andre Miller at this stage. Just young guys or guys who can still do it like Steve Nash. Please go back a read my post but you can't, you can't even comprehend anything. This is what I come to expect of you. A straight up illogical hack with nothing to do but troll my post with stupidity.

[MaceCase]

I'm sorry, I couldn't read your post over all of your whining.

Andre Miller is an example of a PnR PG.

Hasheem Thabeet is an example of a true center

You think they are a thousand miles, I think they just need a true center and a PnR PG and they are right there.

So tell me how players like those two will get this team to the next level?

AHF asked you the same question and you went off on some tangent about Machado. Answer the actual question. It's not hard. What "PnR PG that is obviously not someone like Andre Miller" and what "true center that is obviously not Hasheem Thabeet" is so easily available out there? Or you can whine some more and call me names. I'll await your next tap dance.

[Joker]

Andre Miller is old and he doesn't impact the game like he used to. He's more of a true PG at this point than a PnR PG. He could play the PnR but he wouldn't be extremely effective at it no matter if it's with Horf or not. Common sense silly.Thabeet is a true center. No one is saying otherwise but I am not saying he is a quality player either.Miller doesn't make the impact. Machado would be better simply because of his age, ability to grow and his shooting ability.