Houston will pursue Josh Smith if they fail to get Dwight Howard

[Joker]

Umm no you don't. The other team has to agree to the snt and must be well under the cap for you to get an trade exception.

I don't see it in the current CBA. Show me where you see this at?

[Joker]

camp is without a question right. No one will sign Josh Smith for near max. No one thinks he's a #1 option. He is the player you have to compliment others. He is not even Joe who was seen as Robin and the perfect sidekick to a superstar.

[AHF]

Lotto protected 13' top 1 14' unprotected 15'.

$13 million buys you that. Not sure how this relates to Josh.

[Joker]

$13 million buys you that. Not sure how this relates to Josh.

Ben Gordon contract is cancerous.Josh Smith talent+skill+value+contract=Golden

[AHF]

Ben Gordon contract is cancerous.Josh Smith talent+skill+value+contract=Golden

Detroit paid a first round pick to unload a cancerous contract. You aren't seriously viewing this as a basketball trade where the skills of the players involved had anything to do with it, are you? This is purely a deal about managing the salary cap.There is no connection to Josh Smith here.

[Joker]

Detroit paid a first round pick to unload a cancerous contract. You aren't seriously viewing this as a basketball trade where the skills of the players involved had anything to do with it, are you? This is purely a deal about managing the salary cap.There is no connection to Josh Smith here.

I would have too. Gordon contract had to go. I would take one year of trash Maggette instead of that contract.

[Admin]

I don't see it in the current CBA. Show me where you see this at?

I have less than this much --> || interest in looking something up to prove something to you that a) is common knowledge* and b) you will disregard as soon as you are proven wrong.*Barring some radical change in the new CBA that I've not seen anyone talk about.

[Joker]

I have less than this much --> || interest in looking something up to prove something to you that a) is common knowledge* and b) you will disregard as soon as you are proven wrong.*Barring some radical change in the new CBA that I've not seen anyone talk about.

What you said wasn't common knowledge and please cite it next time if you want to put me down. I don't mind admitting when I am wrong but don't do that please unless you have the proof.Now, before I got angry I still feel the same. 14, 16,18 and Scola for Smith and 23 is a fair deal. Otherwise no. No point in doing the deal. Rather try to move into the top 5 or wait till the regular season and stick with what we have.

[thecampster]

camp is without a question right. No one will sign Josh Smith for near max. No one thinks he's a #1 option. He is the player you have to compliment others. He is not even Joe who was seen as Robin and the perfect sidekick to a superstar.

You missed the point of my post I think. My point was, you don't get Josh Smith talent to sign a FA deal for 13 million in the NBA next year. In that list, there are only 6 players I value equally or more than Josh and all make more than 13 million a year.AHF was making the case that putting Josh in the context of value because his expiring status was ludicrous. I was seconding his comment but clarifying. Something about AHF you might want to know is that he tends to leave out details. The details are typically common knowledge to him and he leaves them out assuming other's know these things as well. As far as contracts, trades, go...he's as knowledgable as anyone here. Player evaluation and play style is something he and I argue about occasionally but in the area of CBA, Salary Cap, Trades, etc....you could do alot worse than asking him for clarification. Edited June 27, 2012 by thecampster

[Buzzard]

What you said wasn't common knowledge and please cite it next time if you want to put me down. I don't mind admitting when I am wrong but don't do that please unless you have the proof.

Now, before I got angry I still feel the same. 14, 16,18 and Scola for Smith and 23 is a fair deal. Otherwise no. No point in doing the deal. Rather try to move into the top 5 or wait till the regular season and stick with what we have.

It is if you know the correct name, its called a "traded" player exception. Meaning you aquire it in the first place by making a trade.

Traded Player Exception

Wondering how a team obtains a Traded Player Exception? Here you go: If a team makes a trade and as a result of that trade is over the salary cap (whether or not they were below it before the trade), and exception is created for the difference in player salaries. The team who sent out the lower amount of salary receives the exception. These exceptions are good for one year from the official date of the trade, cannot be used to sign a player, and are subject to use restrictions.

link: http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salaries

[Joker]

Thanks Buzz for the link. Sac town needs a rim protector and an anchor. Josh Smith for #5 and Chuck Hayes.

[Buzzard]

You missed the point of my post I think. My point was, you don't get Josh Smith talent to sign a FA deal for 13 million in the NBA next year. In that list, there are only 6 players I value equally or more than Josh and all make more than 13 million a year.

What you say is true but if said team we trade Josh to will be additionally 7 mill under, they can add in Josh's 13 and be clear 20 to sign a max player. That would be our ideal trade partner simply because they could afford to lose Josh, whereas from a talent standpoint and cap standpoint we cannot.

[thecampster]

What you said wasn't common knowledge and please cite it next time if you want to put me down. I don't mind admitting when I am wrong but don't do that please unless you have the proof.Now, before I got angry I still feel the same. 14, 16,18 and Scola for Smith and 23 is a fair deal. Otherwise no. No point in doing the deal. Rather try to move into the top 5 or wait till the regular season and stick with what we have.

Now as far as 14, 16, 18, Scola being fair for Smith and 23.Fair, yes I'd agree. Best course, not so much unless there is a background deal to it (like moving Joe and 18 to get into the top 5). Unless you are completely remaking the roster and rebuilding around Horford, Teague - there is no point to just loading up draft picks. Dropping Smith now is the same as saying...we won't win this year. Trading Smith for prospects is giving up on next season. Sure you might make the playoffs but you aren't competing replacing Smith and our bench vets with Scola and draft picks. You need shot creators and you will definately need a defensive stopper. So by the time your 3 draft picks grow up, Scola, JJ will be gone/too old.You have to approach this draft by looking at what salary you have tied up 2+ years from now. Next year we have 60 million spent on 6 players (10 million average). The next year, 51 million on 5 players (10.2 million average). The next year, 2 players signed...Joe, Scola and Al for 35 million dollars...17.5 million each. Let's assume you traded Smith and 23 for 14,16,18 (scola has 3 years left). This year you would have 9 players under contract (skola and 3 picks plus the remaining 5) for about 60 millions. the next year, 9 players for 66 million, the next 6 players for 50.5 million. But that's 3 years from now. Scola and Joe are dinosaurs. The rest of your roster are 3 mid level picks that are growing and 2 years of mid level draft picks. AHEM....lottery.Just because it's fair value doesn't make it a good idea. I could trade my wife's Mini Cooper convertible for a house in stripper alley in East Point and it's a fair trade. That doesn't make it a good idea.

[Buzzard]

Just because it's fair value doesn't make it a good idea. I could trade my wife's Mini Cooper convertible for a house in stripper alley in East Point and it's a fair trade. That doesn't make it a good idea.

Really the housing market in Atlanta is that bad? A used Mini for a get away home in stripper alley; buy a used Cooper on the side and do the deal. Wifey does not have to know about it!

[thecampster]

Really the housing market in Atlanta is that bad? A used Mini for a get away home in stripper alley; buy a used Cooper on the side and do the deal. Wifey does not have to know about it!

I bought my home in the western suburbs for $215k in 2007. I thought I got a good deal when it appraised for $239k. Recent appraisal was $125.5K. Yes, the housing market is that bad and the Cooper is almost new. I look like Fred Flintstone driving it but she loves it.

[thecampster]

Because I obviously don't value quality relationships, I researched a list for this discussion. These were NBA salaries this past season. Highlighted are players making more than Josh Smith with either less production or whose teams performed poorly. The idea here is about risk vs value. There is a reason that with Horford out, Joe out we still won a few games. Horford/Smith are the types of players you must have on your roster to win. They help you win games you shouldn't. Go through this list and you'll see it peppered with similar names. The highlighted players are just people who the stats obviously bear out in favor of Smith.

This isn't a defense of Smith, his behavior, the rumors about trade requests. It's just a stop and think about this moment. There aren't a lot of these top 3 type talents out there and most of them make more money than Smith. The NBA is a commodities game and you don't sell short on commodities.

Kobe Bryant L.A. Lakers $25,244,493 Kevin Garnett Boston Celtics $21,247,044 Tim Duncan San Antonio Spurs $21,164,619 Rashard Lewis Washington Wizards $21,136,630 Dirk Nowitzki Dallas Mavericks $19,092,873 Pau Gasol L.A. Lakers $18,714,150 Carmelo Anthony New York Knicks $18,518,574 Amar'e Stoudemire New York Knicks $18,217,705 Dwight Howard Orlando Magic $18,091,770 Joe Johnson Atlanta Hawks $18,038,573 Elton Brand Philadelphia 76ers $17,059,727 Chris Paul L.A. Clippers $16,359,805 Deron Williams Brooklyn Nets $16,359,805 Chris Bosh Miami HEAT $16,022,500 LeBron James Miami HEAT $16,022,500 Dwyane Wade Miami HEAT $15,512,000 Kevin Durant Oklahoma City Thunder $15,506,632 Paul Pierce Boston Celtics $15,334,334 Zach Randolph Memphis Grizzlies $15,200,000 Antawn Jamison Cleveland Cavaliers $15,076,715 Rudy Gay Memphis Grizzlies $15,032,144 Andrew Bynum L.A. Lakers $14,900,000 Al Jefferson Utah Jazz $14,000,000 Andre Iguodala Philadelphia 76ers $13,531,750 Carlos Boozer Chicago Bulls $13,500,000 Tyson Chandler New York Knicks $13,107,837 Nene Washington Wizards $13,000,000 Manu Ginobili San Antonio Spurs $12,981,038 Marc Gasol Memphis Grizzlies $12,922,194 Marcus Camby Houston Rockets $12,866,332 Chris Kaman New Orleans Hornets $12,700,000 Tony Parker San Antonio Spurs $12,500,000 Emeka Okafor New Orleans Hornets $12,492,500

[Guest]

A trade exception in this case is created when a free agent is sign and traded to a new team. The free agent agrees to the sign and trade because it nets him the same Bird right advantages such as the pay raises and extra year that he would get with his original team but just for a new team.The new CBA eliminated this. A sign and trade in the new CBA is the equivalent to signing with a new team outright without one so there is zero incentive for a player to bother with it. There are also extra limitations that will be added to sign and trade deals starting the very summer Josh is a free agent. A pick can be included but it can protected in a manner that it will never be conveyed to the team such as the 2nd rounder the Knicks owe Phoenix for the Amar'e deal.So you've gone from balking at a mid lotto pick for Josh to hoping that when he leaves he's nice enough to go through the extra trouble of a process that nets him zero advantages and will reward the team with a conditional much lower pick on the ass end of forever.I say wait it out.

Thanks for the clarification on how it works.

[Joker]

campster is posting realistic news. Nothing crazy and sillly. You don't sell low on commodities. Maybe sell low on Jordan Crawford but you never sell low on Josh Smith.

[Guest Walter]

Ben Gordon contract is cancerous.Josh Smith talent+skill+value+contract=Golden

About Gordon's contract, in one year you may be able to turn around that contract and acquire a second 1st rder in trade. This is a much better deal for a 1st than what GS paid for Jefferson/1st. I actually think the Bobcats made out. They may get another first out of this should they trade Gordon's deal down the road. Their cap situation will allow for that.I think in this case JS's expiring contract hurts any deal and eliminates a great many teams (like Toronto) unlike in the case of an expiring contract where you wouldn't likely want to resign the player. I think JS's "value" (see thecampster's post in this thread page) is only for a certain number of teams as his next contract will be difficult to play up to. Houston may be one such team if they are really interested in plucking Howard from Orlando. I will say this, if I'm taking on Scola's contract without getting rid of MW, I better get a boat load of draft picks (preferably in this draft). $40 million committed to MW/Scola/JJ in 2 years boggles my mind. If paying for 2 years of Gordon gets you a likely mid-first, paying for 3 of Scola should also. That and JS is at least worth a mid-1st to a team like the Rockets. W

[MaceCase]

Thanks for the clarification on how it works.

My pleasure. The new CBA has eliminated players from having their cake and eating it too in their favorite locale but at the same time they've put the onus on teams to resolve their free agent issues before it gets to that point.