And now to pee in your Cheerios!

[thecampster]

Team as currently constructed

Smith - $13,200,000

Horford - $12,000,000

Harris - $8,500,000

Pachulia - $5,248,750

Farmar - $4,250,000 ($1,500,000 against the cap)

Morrow - $4,000,000

Petro - $3,500,000

Teague - $2,433,077

Stephenson - $unknown

Williams - $762,195

Total - $53,894,022 (some unknown)

Total with Farmar buyout - $51,144,022 (Stephenson unknown)

Hawks 2012-2013 cap holds!!!!

Kirk Hinrich - $12,000,000 - 150% of Previous Salary

John Jenkins - $ 1,003,800 - rookie scale 23rd pick

Ivan Johnson - $ 962,195 - QO - cap hold to be $762,195 (one year veteran's minimum) if no QO offered

Jason Collins - $ 854,389

Erick Dampier - $854,389

Willie Green - $854,389

Tracy McGrady - $854,389

Jannero Pargo - $854,389

Vladimir Radmonovic - $854,389

Jerry Stackhouse - $854,389

Hilton Armstrong - $854,389

Randolph Morris - $854,389

Josh Powell - $854,389

Etan Thomas - $854,389

Total Cap Holds - $23,364,274

Total salary with cap holds - $74,508,296 plus Stephenson

Yes...look at that line of unsigned free agents. That is the legacy of BK and Sund. Ferry's mess is still in need of a lot of cleaning.

souce: http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/hawks.jsp

[MaceCase]

Stevenson's contract is reported to be 3 years 6.9 million but only the first year salary of 2.3 million is guaranteed. So you can add that.Hinrich has an offer from Chicago reportedly above the vet min so I'm sure his Bird rights have been rescinded especially with Harris in tow and buying out Farmar.Then I don't know why you listed RandMo, Hilton, Powell and Etan. I mean sure we were already over the cap so maybe Sund didn't go through the trouble of officially rescinding rights on them and they never resigned in the NBA or officially retired but I'd bet it's safe to say they are completely gone now...... but maybe, just maybe when the cap is set in a week, Ferry might decide to hold onto those cap holds to have use of the MLE but there's a nice quirk in the new CBA where teams under the cap actually have access to a different type of MLE.

[thecampster]

Stevenson's contract is reported to be 3 years 6.9 million but only the first year salary of 2.3 million is guaranteed. So you can add that.

Hinrich has an offer from Chicago reportedly above the vet min so I'm sure his Bird rights have been rescinded especially with Harris in tow and buying out Farmar.

Then I don't know why you listed RandMo, Hilton, Powell and Etan. I mean sure we were already over the cap so maybe Sund didn't go through the trouble of officially rescinding rights on them and they never resigned in the NBA or officially retired but I'd bet it's safe to say they are completely gone now...... but maybe, just maybe when the cap is set in a week, Ferry might decide to hold onto those cap holds to have use of the MLE but there's a nice quirk in the new CBA where teams under the cap actually have access to a different type of MLE.

Because it's on Shamsports still for this coming year. No other reason.

[MrMeltdown]

So, exactly whose cheerios are you pissing in? A lot of us have been saying this every since we saw the situation while you were running around talking about think like a GM, but at the end of the day since we already have our 13 I don't think those over the top holds you have apply. We have 13 players and the max is 15 so it is impossible to have all those holds. We are freed up but we still only have the exceptions to play with.

Edited July 3, 2012 by MrMeltdown

[thecampster]

So, exactly whose cheerios are you pissing in? A lot of us have been saying this every since we saw the situation while you were running around talking about think like a GM, but at the end of the day since we already have our 13 I don't think those over the top holds you have apply. We have 13 players and the max is 15 so it is impossible to have all those holds. We are freed up but we still only have the exceptions to play with.

A hold is not a player. 2 different things.

[MrMeltdown]

A hold is not a player. 2 different things.

What? We already have the required amount of players and we are 2 away from the max. Why would we still have holds for all those players when it is impossible to add more than 2? It is quite obvious that we don't have holds for all those players you are needlessly posting about. All this has been stated in simple terms while you were running around telling people to think like a GM they were two steps ahead of you realizing that we only have exceptions after all of this so-called house cleaning. Exceptions, that all we have to work with this season as currently constructed. Edited July 3, 2012 by MrMeltdown

[thecampster]

What? We already have the required amount of players and we are 2 away from the max. Why would we still have holds for all those players when it is impossible to add more than 2? It is quite obvious that we don't have holds for all those players you are needlessly posting about. All this has been stated in simple terms while you were running around telling people to think like a GM they were two steps ahead of you realizing that we only have exceptions after all of this so-called house cleaning. Exceptions, that all we have to work with this season as currently constructed.

Here is your explanation. Read it!

http://www.shamsport...hedeuce.htm#key

"Question: What is a cap hold and why may I want to ask that?

Answer: Your team's free agents have what is called a "cap hold." This is an amount of money that is charged to your team's salary cap number, even though the player isn't under contract. This is a deliberate ploy that exists to close a loophole; if cap holds didn't exist, it's theoretically possible for a team to have its entire roster become free agents at the same time, have their entire cap to spend on other team's free agents, and then use Bird rights to re-sign their own ones afterwards. And that would be disingenuous. This way, your free agents eat into your cap room, forcing you to prioritise a bit better. And the players below have cap holds (also known as "free agent amounts") that have not yet been renounced, making them technically interesting. Technically.

If you waive a player, they are automatically renounced, and so will not have a cap hold. If a player signs with another NBA team, they also no longer have a cap hold to their former team. And if a player retires (by which I mean he properly retires, sending official retirement paperwork to league and everything, and not just informally saying that they've retired), then their free agent amount is removed too. However, players often don't formally retire until they're eligible for their NBA pension, and the reason for that (other than laziness) is that many of them still have cap holds with NBA teams, which means that they can still be incorporated into sign and trades as salary filler for trades. It would be an extremely impossible thing to imagine had it not already happened: at the 2007 trade deadline, Aaron McKie and Keith Van Horn were both signed and traded to complete deals while being unofficially retired, earning them 7 figures worth of free cheddar. And all they had to do was not file the retirement paperwork. It's implausible, but it happens. (Similarly, if a player's contract with an NBA team expires without him going through waivers, and he then signs with a non-NBA team, he will continue to have a cap hold until he's renounced.)

These cap holds can stick around for years if the team remains over the salary cap in that time. And, as you'll see below, they do. There's some players from the late 90's on here, for God's sake. However, when teams have set themelves up for cap room, they renounce these basically useless free agent amounts to maximize how much room they have. For example, in the summer of 2007, Milwaukee, Orlando and Memphis all figured to have cap room, and so they renounced all their free agents who weren't under contract. These included players from previous years; Orlando renounced Darko Milicic, Grant Hill, Andrew DeClercq, Stacey Augmon, Jaren Jackson, Mark Jones, Shawn Kemp, Sean Rooks, Bo Outlaw and Olumide Oyedeji; Milwaukee renounced Reece Gaines, Jermaine Jackson, Ervin Johnson, Toni Kukoc, Jiri Welsch, Ruben Patterson, Brian Skinner, Jared Reiner and Earl Boykins; and Memphis renounced Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, Junior Harrington, Lawrence Roberts, Mike Batiste, Antoine Carr, Kevin Edwards, Antonis Fotsis, Dahntay Jones, Will Solomon and Doug West. The randomness of those players should help illustrate the randomness of some of the players listed below, and why they're still here. (As you will no doubt see, Indiana hasn't had cap space for a while.)

The cap hold that these free agents have varies, depending on how much the salary in the final year of their last NBA contract was; the cap hold is a percentage of that salary, and is also dependent on what kind of free agent rights the team has on that player. Listed in the "type" column is a brief description of the cap hold that that player has, and a fleshed out description of what those terms mean follows this colon:

250%: The player is a Larry Bird free agent, coming off of a rookie scale contract, and the last year of his previous contract was lesser than the average salary.

200%: The player is a Larry Bird free agent, coming off of a rookie scale contract, and the last year of his previous contract was greater than the average salary.

190%: The player is a Larry Bird free agent, NOT coming off of a rookie scale contract, and the last year of his previous contract was lesser than the average salary.

150%: The player is a Larry Bird free agent, NOT coming off of a rookie scale contract, and the last year of his previous contract was greater than the average salary.

130%: The player is an Early Bird free agent.

120%: The player is a non-Bird free agent.

Min: The player's previous salary was a minimum salary contract, and therefore so is their cap hold. Note that if the player has one year of experience, the second year minimum is used, but if the player has more experience than that, the third year minimum is used instead, even if they're like a 28 year veteran. This is due to the league's rebate policy thing that sees all players with two or more years experience signed to a one year (or rest of the year) minimum salary contract are charged to their team's salary cap as being only third year players, with the league making up the balance between that and their actual minimum salary, so as to not deter teams from signing older players just because they cost more.

Max: If the player had used the correct one of the percentages used above, their contract would have exceeded the maximum salary; therefore the maximum salary is used instead.

3rd year: The player is a free agent after only three seasons of their rookie contract, having had their fourth year option declined. Their cap hold becomes what the value of their fourth year option would have been. Note: such players are NOT eligible for restricted free agency,

2nd year: Same as 3rd year, but a year earlier (i.e. they had their third year option declined).

QO: The player is a restricted free agent, but NOT coming off of the rookie salary scale; their cap hold is for the value of their qualifying offer.

Offer sheet: The player currently has an offer sheet pending; if the first year's salary of that offer sheet is greater than the QO, then the value of the first year of the offer sheet is used as the cap hold."

Edited July 3, 2012 by thecampster

[frankthetank966]

Just let this relax. We've seen what Ferry can do. I'm sure Kirk will not be return. At least I hope he isn't. He was below average during his time and never seemed to really "care."

[thecampster]

Just let this relax. We've seen what Ferry can do. I'm sure Kirk will not be return. At least I hope he isn't. He was below average during his time and never seemed to really "care."

No, it's just a game they need to play. Hold the cap holds for potential sign and trades...then release them at the right time. It's weird but Ferry will have to work on that list as well.

[MrMeltdown]

I don't need to read all that. I will just use common sense. Why hold something that you will never pick up? 15 player max. We already have 13 only 2 of those extra holds are even possible, but the bigger point remains you are not making this sour for anyone we already figured that out why you were telling people to think like a GM we were doing just that and realized we only have exceptions because we are over the cap. Those holds are just meaningless. We only have exceptions regardless of how many holds you want to talk about because we are up against the salary cap. I get what you are saying but just don't see how you are making this sour for people that understood this even before the deal was made just by hearing of the contracts coming back our way.

[coachx]

I don't think this is pee in anyone's cheerios.I mean........its clear as day the plan is to maximize cap room for next year's free agency class......not for the present.All we have under contract next year is Horford and Jenkins. Teague's qualifying offer will be $3.5 mill to make him a RFA. Stevenson contract is not guaranteed next season. The rest of th 1 year rentals Birds rights can be waived so there are no cap holds next summer. Hawks could have over $30 mill in cap space next summer....orthey could resign Josh Smith and add a max contract free agent. Cap flexibility in 2013 is the plan.

[vext]

This doesn't matter at all. If there is a free agent we need to go after then we can renounce rights to everyone of those players. The bottom line is that we are still around 7m lower in salary than we were a day ago with more players on the roster. Plus, we can renounce those players and have 4.5m (including Stevenson at 2.3m guaranteed for this year) to spend on a player. We can also use the MLE once we go over the salary cap for a total of 5m. I am assuming that we will keep Jenkins at 1m and spend the 900k on Ivan if no one else makes a run at him. That means we could finish at ~63m with this roster and adding two free agents at 2.5 & 5 million salaries. That's a total of 13 players (not including Mike Scott although we could potentially sign him) at 63 million. 5 million and 2-2.5 million could get us a starting SF and a backup SF. That will at least get us through the year. 24 hours ago we would have 63 million with 8 players assuming we signed Ivan and didn't trade Jenkins. That in itself is impressive. We have also drastically increased the franchise's reputation and enhanced our general image while putting ourselves in position to potentially trade for a superstar this year or sign one next summer.So yeah, those cap holds look bad, but who cares? We weren't going to bring most of those guys back anyways. So, I wouldn't say that this is "peeing in our cheerios" in my opinion (although great use of the phrase lol). We will be fine. Change always ruffles feathers and everyone in the media will either want to jump on the "Ferry is Great" bandwagon while a smaller section will want to find something negative with the trades to report something differently. Nothing wrong with looking at in a different light, but the sky isn't falling either.

[Sothron]

All Ferry has to do is renounce the guys that don't get signed in the offseason. It really isn't that big of a deal.

[coachx]

All Ferry has to do is renounce the guys that don't get signed in the offseason. It really isn't that big of a deal.

Agreed.

[NineOhTheRino]

pee and cheerios is actually a good way to build up your muscle density during muscle training.

[tonegully]

Who cares about this year. I dont. Im already thinking about 2013. Personally I would limit Al and Josh minutes this year just to reload for next season. I hope we tank and get in the lottery

[DJlaysitup]

So we are basically trading JJ for cap space:

In exchange for Johnson, the Hawks are set to receive Jordan Farmar, former Georgia Tech standout Anthony Morrow, Johan Petro, DeShawn Stevenson and Jordan Williams from the Nets. Atlanta also would receive a 2013 first-round draft pick that is lottery-protected through 2016.

Once the trades become official, the Hawks would be left with less talent but with more financial mobility to stake out their future. The Hawks are sending out roughly $100 million in future salary commitments while taking back about $25 million.

[AHF]

I don't think this is pee in anyone's cheerios.I mean........its clear as day the plan is to maximize cap room for next year's free agency class......not for the present.All we have under contract next year is Horford and Jenkins. Teague's qualifying offer will be $3.5 mill to make him a RFA. Stevenson contract is not guaranteed next season. The rest of th 1 year rentals Birds rights can be waived so there are no cap holds next summer. Hawks could have over $30 mill in cap space next summer....orthey could resign Josh Smith and add a max contract free agent. Cap flexibility in 2013 is the plan.

Exactly. I read the title and then the post and was kind of like....ummm...yeah....this is why we are excited!