Deron says JJ is big reason he changed his mind and went back to the Nets

[NJHAWK]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/eye-on-basketball/19520452/deron-williams-joe-johnson-trade-helped-me-pick-nets-over-mavericks The way Deron talks about JJ's game it reminded me of what we are going to miss. Still we had to get rid of that contract .They are going to be a sick duo for a couple years though.

[Diesel]

I think it was a really good move by the Nets to get Joe. Even though Joe will eventually move to the 3. They will be formidable. If Marshon Brooks can taylor his game to doing what he does efficiently that team will be hell to stop.

[hawkman]

Yep. Deron and JJ will be the best backcourt in the Eastern Conference until Wall and Beal get up to speed.

[Diesel]

http://www.cbssports...-over-mavericks The way Deron talks about JJ's game it reminded me of what we are going to miss. Still we had to get rid of that contract .They are going to be a sick duo for a couple years though.

What if we could have gotten rid of Marvin and some other deadwood and somehow gotten Deron? Would Joe's contract still have to go? There's a difference between basketball decisions and GM decisions. We had enough talent to go out and get anther star, we just chose not to. Joe's contract never hindered us.

[KB21]

What if we could have gotten rid of Marvin and some other deadwood and somehow gotten Deron? Would Joe's contract still have to go? There's a difference between basketball decisions and GM decisions. We had enough talent to go out and get anther star, we just chose not to. Joe's contract never hindered us.

Joe's contract absolutely was a hinderence, and it is ridiculous to argue otherwise. The only way you could bring back talent to go along with Joe is to trade one of Josh Smith or Al Horford, if not both of them to create the room needed to get a Deron. However, a Deron Williams and Joe Johnson backcourt is not a championship combination. At this point in their careers, the two of them will combine for about 12-14 win shares. I'm sorry, but that's not going to get you a championship. Al and Josh combined will get the Hawks 18 win shares. The translation of that is this. Al and Josh will do more things that contribute to wins that Deron and Joe. Deron and Joe are two shot happy players that will dominate the ball, and they will be a below average defensive combination. Joe's contract was the biggest obstacle for the Hawks going forward, and now it is New Jersey's biggest obstacle because a team built around Joe and Deron is going to top out as a lower level playoff team at best, depending upon the role players New Jersey is able to put around them. As is, New Jersey is a 35 win team with Deron and Joe. The Hawks are a 45 win team right now with Josh and Al.

[niremetal]

At this point in their careers, the two of them will combine for about 12-14 win shares. I'm sorry, but that's not going to get you a championship. Al and Josh combined will get the Hawks 18 win shares. The translation of that is this. Al and Josh will do more things that contribute to wins that Deron and Joe.

Every single NBA coach just spit out their margarita and started laughing. Edited July 7, 2012 by niremetal

[KB21]

Every single NBA coach just spit out their margarita and started laughing.

Wait and see. Most NBA coaches don't buy into the numbers yet, but the numbers are very apparent. Shot TAKING is not what wins games. Shot MAKING is what contributes to wins, and between Joe and Deron, there will be a lot of shots taken and much fewer shots made.

[Supporter]

Every single NBA coach just spit out their margarita and started laughing.

lol!!! josh and al better than deron and Joe.....that'll be the day

[WraithSentinel]

I have seen where some Mavs fans are pissed off at the Hawks now. lol

[capstone21]

Deron and joe are the best backcourt in the nba...maybe second best if Nash can play well in la

[KB21]

lol!!! josh and al better than deron and Joe.....that'll be the day

Josh and Al have been better for the past three years. This is very apparent when looking at both win shares and adjusted plus/minus. Over the past 3 years, Josh and Al have combined for 44.6 win shares. Joe and Deron have combined for 40.8 win shares. Basically, the combo of Josh and Al will contribute at least 3 more wins than the combo of Joe and Deron. Now, if you combine Josh and Dwight, that is 57.8 win shares over the past 3 years combined. A Josh and Dwight combo would absolutely be much better than a Joe and Deron combo. Josh has a 2 year adjusted +/- of 9.77, by far the best on the Hawks. Dwight's 2 year adjusted +/- is 7.6. Joe Johnson's is 1.24, while Deron Williams's is 2.14. Even with Joe and Deron, Gerald Wallace is the player that will contribute the most to winning on that New Jersey team.

[NJHAWK]

I will admit I know nothing about these win share stats. It sounds as though that they are F/C friendly since F and C typically and obviously shoot at higer %s than guards do.

[Buzzard]

I will admit I know nothing about these win share stats. It sounds as though that they are F/C friendly since F and C typically and obviously shoot at higer %s than guards do.

That is kind of like a Duh except for those who think win/shares is the best thing since cooked grits. Stat heads ( I am one of them ) have a hard time accepting flaws. This win/share is a classic example of a huge flaw. Its the ugliest stat to use in my honest opinion. Volume shooters are highly rewarded. You want to be a win share all star, just keep shooting no matter how badly it really hurts your team.

[MaceCase]

Lost in all this, Joe almost equaled Josh's aggregate winshares last season in 200 less minutes (you know, since it's a cumulative stat) on the court and posted a higher WS/48.Selective stat biases for the win!!!!!!And Buzz, PER is actually the one that rewards volume. WinShares give greater credit to efficacy in multiple categories given opportunity.

Edited July 7, 2012 by MaceCase

[Diesel]

Joe's contract absolutely was a hinderence, and it is ridiculous to argue otherwise. The only way you could bring back talent to go along with Joe is to trade one of Josh Smith or Al Horford, if not both of them to create the room needed to get a Deron. However, a Deron Williams and Joe Johnson backcourt is not a championship combination. At this point in their careers, the two of them will combine for about 12-14 win shares. I'm sorry, but that's not going to get you a championship. Al and Josh combined will get the Hawks 18 win shares. The translation of that is this. Al and Josh will do more things that contribute to wins that Deron and Joe. Deron and Joe are two shot happy players that will dominate the ball, and they will be a below average defensive combination. Joe's contract was the biggest obstacle for the Hawks going forward, and now it is New Jersey's biggest obstacle because a team built around Joe and Deron is going to top out as a lower level playoff team at best, depending upon the role players New Jersey is able to put around them. As is, New Jersey is a 35 win team with Deron and Joe. The Hawks are a 45 win team right now with Josh and Al.

Uhm... Marvin and Zaza = 13 Million. HInrich = 9 Million. Smoove = 12.5 Million. So you're telling me that with ~34 Million more... and we still got Teague and Horford. that we couldn't have put together a formidable team? The truth is that many of the people who say that Joe's contract was a HInderance were only looking from a Joshcentric point of view. There's a definite clash between Josh and Horf that still haven't been answered. We made a move but we still haven't addressed the major issue.

[Joker]

KB21, you gonna have to drop the hate. Deron is probably the best PG in the NBA and Joe is a top 3 SG. Those two aren't PER type of players. You take the PER way too serious. Those stats are important to a degree but Joe can do it all very good and nothing elite and fits next Deron and Wallace. You take your Joe hatred too far.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Joker

[Diesel]

Josh and Al have been better for the past three years. This is very apparent when looking at both win shares and adjusted plus/minus. Over the past 3 years, Josh and Al have combined for 44.6 win shares. Joe and Deron have combined for 40.8 win shares. Basically, the combo of Josh and Al will contribute at least 3 more wins than the combo of Joe and Deron. Now, if you combine Josh and Dwight, that is 57.8 win shares over the past 3 years combined. A Josh and Dwight combo would absolutely be much better than a Joe and Deron combo. Josh has a 2 year adjusted +/- of 9.77, by far the best on the Hawks. Dwight's 2 year adjusted +/- is 7.6. Joe Johnson's is 1.24, while Deron Williams's is 2.14. Even with Joe and Deron, Gerald Wallace is the player that will contribute the most to winning on that New Jersey team.

Josh and Al are the easiest to stop Duo ever... that's why coaches are spitting in their margarita laughing... Josh will return to being a Diva on the three point line trying to make a shot from outside because the big mean men are inside. Tito will request a trade for Horford. We better pray that we trade for Howard.

[Joker]

Man sometimes you just gotta watch the tape. That's why Joe is a 6th time All Star and Deron is an elite player. PER says Ryan Anderson is very good, tape says is a product of Dwight Howard.

[Bamalawdawg]

Where is everyone getting that Joe is a premier 2 or 3? It is like we are all just remembering the good times from 2005-2008 when he was in his prime. Some see, to think going to a team that was worse than the Hawks will somehow turn this 31 year old into his 27 year old self again. I was a huge JJ fan, BUT, a reminder:1. His scoring average has fallen 4 of the past 5 years. 2. He has not averaged 20+ per game since the 2009-2010 season3. The # of games he has played in has dropped each of the past 4 seasons 4. His minutes per game have dropped each of the past 5 seasons These are trends people. Not flukes. I will root for Joe, but I fully expect his days of playing 80 games, more than 36 minutes, and taking 19 shots are over. He will be a valuable shooter and 17ppg scorer for as many as 5-6 seasons IMO. Would love to see him back at 1/3 price in 4 seasons in a 2012 Ray Allen role, but in 2 seasons I expect him to be a top 50 player at best and the NBA's highest paid player.

[tonegully]

Where is everyone getting that Joe is a premier 2 or 3? It is like we are all just remembering the good times from 2005-2008 when he was in his prime. Some see, to think going to a team that was worse than the Hawks will somehow turn this 31 year old into his 27 year old self again. I was a huge JJ fan, BUT, a reminder: 1. His scoring average has fallen 4 of the past 5 years. 2. He has not averaged 20+ per game since the 2009-2010 season 3. The # of games he has played in has dropped each of the past 4 seasons 4. His minutes per game have dropped each of the past 5 seasons These are trends people. Not flukes. I will root for Joe, but I fully expect his days of playing 80 games, more than 36 minutes, and taking 19 shots are over. He will be a valuable shooter and 17ppg scorer for as many as 5-6 seasons IMO. Would love to see him back at 1/3 price in 4 seasons in a 2012 Ray Allen role, but in 2 seasons I expect him to be a top 50 player at best and the NBA's highest paid player.

I agree with everything stated. Joe's contract is murderous. We had to move it. Ferry is thinking ahead, not now. Im going to miss Joe as i am a Joe fan but it had to be done. It was a business move.