****Dwight Howard Discussion Thread****

[NJHAWK]

Orlando are giving up a bad contract or two to Cleveland, what's reported is just the basic framework for the deal.

The Rockets were offering their 3 1st round picks they drafted this year plus future picks and taking back all of the bad contracts Orlando wanted them to. Thats better than picks from Clev and getting a bad contract in Varejo while giving up some bad ones. This is the nba so you just never know but I think we should wait and see before we throw in the towel.

[Peoriabird]

Why is Cleveland involved in all of these trade scenarios when the trades really don't benefit them? They will have to give up a bunch of draft picks for a often injured immature 1 year rental on a young team? Plus they were burned 2 years ago with the creation of a super team at their expense. I just don't get it!

Edited July 19, 2012 by Peoriabird

[WraithSentinel]

I say we go after Bynum and Harden next offseason. I think Harden agent is likely advising him to wait before re-signing w/Thunder. There will be plenty of teams with capspace and could offer him the max. He won't be worth it then again Eric Gordon isn't worth his contract; Look at what he got.BynumHorfSmooveHardenTeague

Edited July 19, 2012 by ThunderHawks

[Peoriabird]

We don't need another 2 guard!

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Why is Cleveland involved in all of these trade scenarios when the trades really don't benefit them? They we have to give up a bunch of draft picks for a often injured immature 1 year rental on a young team? Plus they were burned 2 years ago with the creation of a super team at their expense. I just don't get it!

Because Cleveland is bad. And some of you act like you forget how it feels to be bad.

When you're bad, you get desperate and do extreme things. Some of you say that it's best to either be real good or real bad. Ask the real bad teams if they'd rather be "real bad." Charlotte Bobcat fans would've KILLED to have last year's "cap strapped" Atlanta Hawks team in Charlotte.

The fact is that the Cavs have nothing to lose. They got a young PG who looks like he could be a future All-Star. Team that up with a guy who many think is the best big man in the game ( or at the very least the 2nd best ), you now have something significant to sell your fans on.

And you now acquire a guy who you can deal at the trade deadline to get something else significant, if he's dead set on not staying in Cleveland. Gotta give something to get something. And even when you get it, you can give it away to get something else.

As Denzel Washington said in "Training Day" . . .

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gafALL-R1nI

Edited July 19, 2012 by northcyde

[Peoriabird]

Because Cleveland is bad. And some of you act like you forget how it feels to be bad.

When you're bad, you get desperate and do extreme things. Some of you say that it's best to either be real good or real bad. Ask the real bad teams if they'd rather be "real bad." Charlotte Bobcat fans would've KILLED to have last year's "cap strapped" Atlanta Hawks team in Charlotte.

The fact is that the Cavs have nothing to lose. They got a young PG who looks like he could be a future All-Star. Team that up with a guy who many think is the best big man in the game ( or at the very least the 2nd best ), you now have something significant to sell your fans on.

And you now acquire a guy who you can deal at the trade deadline to get something else significant, if he's dead set on not staying in Cleveland. Gotta give something to get something. And even when you get it, you can give it away to get something else.

They will probably end up getting less in return than what they gave away. I bet that they will have to give up unprotected draft picks to make this deal happen. So if you give up your future and the guy that you traded them for, you have screwed yourself!

[coachx]

Hawks Fans: "We got rid of Joe's contract and we can BUILD A CHAMPIONSHIP SQUAD NOW!"

"Lets get Harden and Ibaka to replace Joe...."

Your just making up the "now" stuff. We were not about to win "now" with the old core.

Harden is 9 years younger then Joe. Come the summer of 2013 I think all of us would prefer a 23 year old Harden to a 32 year old Joe.

The Thunder are not losing Harden and Ibaka........they will keep one of them.

Edited July 19, 2012 by coachx

[benhillboy]

I like Harden a lot but definitely wouldn't max him. Ibaka, eh. Chemistry and a good mix of skills in the frontcourt is a big determining factor in where he signs. I still cant see how OKC's frontline did absolutely nothing in the Finals after making short work of Bynum, Gasol, and Duncan. Durant is gonna get a super max whenever he re-ups in a few years, but Perk and Ibaka's stock were damaged for sure when they let a team with only one player at 6'10, and a wiry one at that, dominate them. If he comes at a bargain, say something like 4 for 38 mil, I'd rock with him. It does pay to be long and/ or athletic in these times, though. Batum and Asik took their new team's to the cleaners.

[Bamalawdawg]

What is this miracle trade that will make this work? Lakers - Howard Orlando - ? + 2 1sts from each team? Cavs - Bynum Where do all the big contracts from Orlando (Hedo, Richardson, Duhon, etc,) go? Orlando has to take back like $15, right?

[Ruckus]

I'm wrong? Really? Even in your own POST you just said the BEST we could do is GET TO the conference finals. Whoopee freaking do! I'm about winning titles not settling for being once again a good but not great team. You either have superstars or you do whatever it takes to get them. Harden and Ibaka are not superstars.

The all or none mentality of yours is ridiculous. You think championships come out of thin air. The "sign 3 superstars" pipedream doesn't happen except for a few teams, Atlanta not being one of them. You can't force someone to come here that doesn't want to come here. We have to change the culture of the organization first and tanking doesn't do that.

[Plainview1981]

The all or none mentality of yours is ridiculous. You think championships come out of thin air. The "sign 3 superstars" pipedream doesn't happen except for a few teams, Atlanta not being one of them. You can't force someone to come here that doesn't want to come here. We have to change the culture of the organization first and tanking doesn't do that.

Neither does losing in the first or 2nd round. The last 5 years prove that.

[Bamalawdawg]

This is the best I could do:http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6r3u2p4Orlando gets no lottery picks and is still stuck with a bad contract.

[Sothron]

The all or none mentality of yours is ridiculous. You think championships come out of thin air. The "sign 3 superstars" pipedream doesn't happen except for a few teams, Atlanta not being one of them. You can't force someone to come here that doesn't want to come here. We have to change the culture of the organization first and tanking doesn't do that.

No, my all or nothing mentality is the same one I've had for years. I'm in mid mid thirties. I've watched the NBA since I was a toddler. And the one thing that has rung true time and time again is that in the NBA you only win with superstars. Period. This isn't the other sports where just being good is enough to possibly win a title. The NBA demands you have to be great to win a ring. I never said signing three superstars was realistic. What I've said since all this Dwightmare started was that we have to push all in to get Dwight after we traded Joe. You get Dwight and pair him up with Josh and let him come to want to stay here. If he does then there's no doubt in my mind CP3 would come here. Suddenly we have two legit superstars and one All star level player in Josh. If we can't do that then you blew it up completely. That means trading Josh and Horford because they are just good enough to keep us floating around the playoffs or just under it and killing our chances of getting a high lottery pick. You think we should be good first and then the superstars will come? It will NEVER HAPPEN. This team we just blew up was good. Not ONE guy wanted to come here. Not ONE. You have to have a superstar to get a superstar. Miami already had Wade before it got Lebron and Bosh.

[Sothron]

What is this miracle trade that will make this work? Lakers - Howard Orlando - ? + 2 1sts from each team? Cavs - Bynum Where do all the big contracts from Orlando (Hedo, Richardson, Duhon, etc,) go? Orlando has to take back like $15, right?

All of the bad contracts go to Cleveland. The Lakers give up Bynum and picks, Magic give up Howard and bad contacts and take back Vareajo and draft picks from LA and CLE. The Cavs take all the bad contracts plus Bynum.

[Jody23]

All of the bad contracts go to Cleveland. The Lakers give up Bynum and picks, Magic give up Howard and bad contacts and take back Vareajo and draft picks from LA and CLE. The Cavs take all the bad contracts plus Bynum.

I thought the Lakers moved their picks in the sign and trade for Steve Nash?

[wolvetigers]

I'm wrong? Really? Even in your own POST you just said the BEST we could do is GET TO the conference finals. Whoopee freaking do! I'm about winning titles not settling for being once again a good but not great team. You either have superstars or you do whatever it takes to get them. Harden and Ibaka are not superstars.

Yes you are wrong...Tell me the last time the Hawks have been to the ECF. You have to crawl before you walk. And that team as constructed could give Miami a run..but let's be real our team even with those new players I proposed would have to extremely over perform to beat two potential Hall of Famers (Wade and Lebron) and a Star in Bosh...Let's just be real. The only way to beat a team like that is to wear them down - meaning our bench would have to be extremely prolific and we need ability to play in the post heavily. Hopefully luck would shine on us and we would attack the rim and hit open shots to have a shot. Sports History alone would teach you that Good Teams (even without Super Stars can win against "Super stars" can win... As hawks fans we must certainly hope so as the NBA has about 6 or 7 true superstars and 32 teams Edited July 19, 2012 by wolvetigers

[Sothron]

Yes you are wrong...Tell me the last time the Hawks have been to the ECF. You have to crawl before you walk. And that team as constructed could give Miami a run..but let's be real our team even with those new players I proposed would have to extremely over perform to beat two potential Hall of Famers (Wade and Lebron) and a Star in Bosh...Let's just be real. The only way to beat a team like that is to wear them down - meaning our bench would have to be extremely prolific and we need ability to play in the post heavily. Hopefully luck would shine on us and we would attack the rim and hit open shots to have a shot.

Sports History alone would teach you that Good Teams (even without Super Stars can win against "Super stars" can win... As hawks fans we must certainly hope so as the NBA has about 6 or 7 true superstars and 32 teams

Really guy? Really? You are going to tell a person in their mid thirties about sports history that's been following the Hawks since he was a toddler? lol ok then let's play that hand out and see where it goes.

You know how many teams that have ever won a title without at least one superstar? Two. Ever. That's twice EVER in the history of the NBA. The late 70's Sonics and the early 2000's Pistons. That's it. So you want to put our hopes in lightning striking one every thirty or forty years on average? No thanks to that.

You talk about "being real"? Let's be real. The only way you beat a team with two superstars is to have at least two superstars on your team. In the playoffs those superstars play almost the whole game on both ends of the court. You can have a deep bench and a good team and you know what? At NO point in time are you going to put on the court a better player than those opposing superstars. That's the reality of the NBA. That's "being real". This isn't the NFL or NHL or MLB where being good means you have a chance of winning a title. This is the NBA where you have no chance of winning if you are just good. You have to be great.

[Watchman]

No, my all or nothing mentality is the same one I've had for years. I'm in mid mid thirties. I've watched the NBA since I was a toddler. And the one thing that has rung true time and time again is that in the NBA you only win with superstars. Period. This isn't the other sports where just being good is enough to possibly win a title. The NBA demands you have to be great to win a ring.

I never said signing three superstars was realistic. What I've said since all this Dwightmare started was that we have to push all in to get Dwight after we traded Joe. You get Dwight and pair him up with Josh and let him come to want to stay here. If he does then there's no doubt in my mind CP3 would come here. Suddenly we have two legit superstars and one All star level player in Josh.

If we can't do that then you blew it up completely. That means trading Josh and Horford because they are just good enough to keep us floating around the playoffs or just under it and killing our chances of getting a high lottery pick.

You think we should be good first and then the superstars will come? It will NEVER HAPPEN. This team we just blew up was good. Not ONE guy wanted to come here. Not ONE. You have to have a superstar to get a superstar. Miami already had Wade before it got Lebron and Bosh.

Wow, I didn't know you were clairvoyant. CP3 isn't going to come here even if we got Howard. Too much money to be made in the mega market cities.

[Sothron]

Wow, I didn't know you were clairvoyant. CP3 isn't going to come here even if we got Howard. Too much money to be made in the mega market cities.

I didn't say it was guaranteed to happen I specifically in MY mind there's no doubt we could sign him. CP3 said in the past he'd like to play for the Hawks. A potential Big 3 of CP3, Dwight and Josh is enough to bring him here.

[Watchman]

I didn't say it was guaranteed to happen I specifically in MY mind there's no doubt we could sign him. CP3 said in the past he'd like to play for the Hawks. A potential Big 3 of CP3, Dwight and Josh is enough to bring him here.

I think the thought of playing with Josh would not be one he would be particularly partial to, unless Josh was the 4th option.