NBA players are shrinking and here's the proof!.....(ATL does not have a undersized backcourt with the present roster!)

[macdaddy]

The real problem for us is that we're shorter than acceptable and probably shorter than average at every single position now. PG and SG are close and we can survive there but we're a good 2-3" short at SF, 1-2" short at PF and C. We should be able to get by as both of our forwards are good defenders and our PGs are pretty solid defenders as well, but we're definitely going to take a hit defensively next year. Hopefully we're improved enough offensively to offset that!

If the front line is Smoove / Horford / zaza then its not short? I think Zaza proved to be more than a decent backup last season. I'm not saying that should be 35 minutes a night but i've got to think that will be our starting lineup.

[Admin]

If the front line is Smoove / Horford / zaza then its not short? I think Zaza proved to be more than a decent backup last season. I'm not saying that should be 35 minutes a night but i've got to think that will be our starting lineup.

Nope they wouldn't be short but that puts Smoove at his least effective position both offensively and defensively and the stats show that Horford is actually better at C than he is at PF. Zaza is starter quality but we'd lack depth behind him if we started him.

[capstone21]

Smith is not a sf....and thats a good thing. He is terrible there. Zaza will not be starting...he will come in for Smith and/or Horford during the games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

It's really not how big a player is . . it's how big a player PLAYS.The fact is that we now have a backcourt that does NOT play bigger than what they are. Teague and Lou will attack the rim on offense, but neither guy has any shot guarding a guy like Derrick Rose at PG. Anthony Morrow has no shot at guarding a strong 2 guard like Dwyane Wade.That's the problem.People keep looking at one side of the ball, like offense is going to save us.No.If we can't stop people, we're not going to be a better team . . . even if we do score more points as a team.We'll simply be Golden State East, who ironically had to give up their pipe dream of a 6-3 . . 185 lb Stephen Curry at PG . . and a 6-3 . . 185 lb Monta Ellis at SG. Both are PG height and weight and both end up being a distinct liability on defense when having to guard a bigger and heavier 2 guard.Hawks backcourtJeff Teague: 6-2 . . 181 lbsDevin Harris: 6-3 . . 192 lbsLou Williams: 6-1 . . 175 lbsJohn Jenkins: 6-4 . . 220 lbsAnthony Morrow: 6-5 . . 210 lbsDeShawn Stevenson: 6-5 . . 218The problem with this roster, is that the best guards on the team are all PG size . . but will be asked to play some 2. If this team is committed to giving Lou Williams significant minutes, he's going to take minutes from either Teague, Harris, Morrow, or Jenkins.So what are the Hawks going to do at the end of games? Throw 6-2 . . 181 lb Jeff Teague at PG . . . and 6-1 . . 175 lb Lou Williams at the 2? That's the Golden State model . . and it has NEVER worked for them.The last time the Warriors made the playoffs, they had 6-3 . . 215 Baron Davis . . . and 6-6 . . 220 lb Jason Richardson at SG . . . with Monta Ellis being in the 6th man role.Make no mistake about it, our backcourt is undersized like hell. We're also undersized at the 3, which will be an even bigger issue. Josh Smith may be forced to play the 3 because of this midget lineup, and that may be a recipe for disaster for this team.

Edited July 23, 2012 by northcyde

[TheNorthCydeRises]

The fact that the article lists Iggy as a 6-6 PF, pretty much rids it of all credibility. He's skewing the numbers to fit his "vision" of the "shrinking NBA". Even had Ivan listed as a C, when his primary position is PF.Nice try JTB, but citing that article doesn't help your case. Just do your own research. And use NBA.com's player profiles, because they tend to be the most up to date.

[Peoriabird]

Nope they wouldn't be short but that puts Smoove at his least effective position both offensively and defensively and the stats show that Horford is actually better at C than he is at PF. Zaza is starter quality but we'd lack depth behind him if we started him.

Everyone keeps making this argument Smith's past has proven that he can't play Small forward like Smoove hasn't developed more skill or lost weight. No he isn't the best shooter on the team but switching him to Small forward doesn't mean he can't post up or play exactly the way he played while manning the Power forward position. There are plenty of small forwards in this league who's strong suit isn't outside shooting namely Lebron james. On defense, Smoove is plenty quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards and long enough to bother their jump shots while playing off. Heck, we use to see it all of the time with that switching Woodson defense. Will he stop everyone all of the time? no. Will he usual hold his man under 20 ppg? absolutely! Heck there are not many Sm. forwards that can score 20/game on average defenders so we will be alright.

The other thing that I am tired of hearing about is the lack of dept at the center position as the reason we can't start Zaza. Didn't he start over 50 game last years without Horford as depth?

Start Zaza, Horford and Smith!

[Nicholasp27]

Everyone keeps making this argument Smith's past has proven that he can't play Small forward like Smoove hasn't developed more skill or lost weight. No he isn't the best shooter on the team but switching him to Small forward doesn't mean he can't post up or play exactly the way he played while manning the Power forward position. There are plenty of small forwards in this league who's strong suit isn't outside shooting namely Lebron james. On defense, Smoove is plenty quick enough to stay in front of most small forwards and long enough to bother their jump shots while playing off. Heck, we use to see it all of the time with that switching Woodson defense. Will he stop everyone all of the time? no. Will he usual hold his man under 20 ppg? absolutely! Heck there are not many Sm. forwards that can score 20/game on average defenders so we will be alright.

The other thing that I am tired of hearing about is the lack of dept at the center position as the reason we can't start Zaza. Didn't he start over 50 game last years without Horford as depth?

Start Zaza, Horford and Smith!

He is the worst shooter on the team and playing him at sf means you lose his positives like help defense unless he leaves his man open for an easy 3 to go help inside

[Peoriabird]

He is the worst shooter on the team and playing him at sf means you lose his positives like help defense unless he leaves his man open for an easy 3 to go help inside

We no longer have Bibby on the team so the help defense is not as critical unless someone is being posted up where the defense can then rotate. I don't expect our guards to get beat off the dribble as much or get beat on a cut to the basket like in the pass. Keep in mind Zone is legal in the NBA.

[Peoriabird]

He is the worst shooter on the team

He will shoot from the outside whether he is playing center, power forward or small forward...That will not change!

[Admin]

He will shoot from the outside whether he is playing center, power forward or small forward...That will not change!

What you're failing to see, apparently, is that starting Zaza and Horford and Smith and wanting Smith to play inside means he's got A LOT less room to operate than he would at PF in our current lineup. That means that we're further encouraging him to sit outside and shoot because now we don't have a SF who can shoot from outside and we have 2 other bigs in the paint so Smith would automatically be forced to shoot more of his favorite shot. And what does Zaza starting last year without Horf have to do with anything depth related? Guess what, our depth at C SUCKED last year! If we started Zaza and Horf it would suck again! We're far better off bringing Zaza off the bench playing 20-25 minutes and playing him next to Josh or Horf when he's out there.

He is the worst shooter on the team and playing him at sf means you lose his positives like help defense unless he leaves his man open for an easy 3 to go help inside

Yep this too!

We no longer have Bibby on the team so the help defense is not as critical unless someone is being posted up where the defense can then rotate. I don't expect our guards to get beat off the dribble as much or get beat on a cut to the basket like in the pass. Keep in mind Zone is legal in the NBA.

Teague is no Bibby but his man gets by him A LOT and we need as much help defense as possible.

[Peoriabird]

What you're failing to see, apparently, is that starting Zaza and Horford and Smith and wanting Smith to play inside means he's got A LOT less room to operate than he would at PF in our current lineup. That means that we're further encouraging him to sit outside and shoot because now we don't have a SF who can shoot from outside and we have 2 other bigs in the paint so Smith would automatically be forced to shoot more of his favorite shot.

Not necessarily, Zaza has nice touch on his 10-12 foot shot and Horford can definitely hit shots from 15-18 feet consistently so Smith roll won't really change. He can continue to post up like he did when playing with either Horford or Zaza on the floor.

And what does Zaza starting last year without Horf have to do with anything depth related? Guess what, our depth at C SUCKED last year! If we started Zaza and Horf it would suck again! We're far better off bringing Zaza off the bench playing 20-25 minutes and playing him next to Josh or Horf when he's out there.

Not necessarily...When the other team's bench comes into the game you can slide Horford to center and slide Smoove to Power forward and bring in either Kover or another shooter to play small forward

[Peoriabird]

Heck I would even play Keith Benson a few minutes at center or Power forward.

[Gray Mule]

Our big three starts thusly:Center -----ZazaPF ----------SmooveSF-----------HorfordWhat? Huh? You can't! Horford can't possibly play SF because? Is he tall enough? Can he shoot from further than 2 or 3 feet?Is he fast enough to get down the floor on a fast break?Other SF players would run past him so fast that ----???If we gotta play these three and we musn't play Smoove at the SF,then we have the choice of Zaza or Horford there. Which one ofthese two do you want at the SF Since Smoove "gotta" play PF?No one has mentioned this because ---? Horford cant possibly do this because ---??

[JTB]

The fact that the article lists Iggy as a 6-6 PF, pretty much rids it of all credibility. He's skewing the numbers to fit his "vision" of the "shrinking NBA". Even had Ivan listed as a C, when his primary position is PF. Nice try JTB, but citing that article doesn't help your case. Just do your own research. And use NBA.com's player profiles, because they tend to be the most up to date.

Iggy did play many minutes at PF. The article written stated that he put players at the positions they played most minutes at. So 76ers lineup on the court for most minutes per game was probably holiday,lou williams, turner, iggy, brand now you said i need to do my own research...ok well lets look at this http://www.nba.com/sixers/stats/2011/playoffs as you can see the lineup of the names above are the main players on the floor for the 76ers by the average of their minutes. So yes again Iggy did indeed play alot of minutes at PF believe it or not. Good try? not trying at all! facts are facts! .....by the way ivan johnson did play minutes at center just as much as he did at powerforward this year nice try "northcyde" but you gotta come harder than that!

[frosgrim]

Reading through everyone's posts, and I think the general consensus is that the Hawks need more size, preferably at the wing. I would like another banger, but that is secondary to the need to add at least one long wing defender.I personally feel the roster is no where near set. Right now the Hawks are a collection of assests that Ferry will use to build the team he acutally wants.

[AHF]

Iggy did play many minutes at PF. The article written stated that he put players at the positions they played most minutes at.

Iggy played 83% of his team's minutes at SF and 4% of his team's minutes at PF last season. http://www.82games.com/1112/11PHI7.HTM#bypos Any analysis that excludes him from a discussion of wings because of his minutes at PF should be questioned in terms of the meaningfulness of its methodology, IMO.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Iggy played 83% of his team's minutes at SF and 4% of his team's minutes at PF last season. http://www.82games.c...1PHI7.HTM#bypos Any analysis that excludes him from a discussion of wings because of his minutes at PF should be questioned in terms of the meaningfulness of its methodology, IMO.

Thank you. Because that was the exact link I was about to pull up. Anybody that watches basketball knows that Iggy is a SF and not a PF. Honestly, a lot of these people these days that write basketball blogs, are no more qualified to give an opinion about a subject than you, I or anybody else. But it's obvious that some of these "basketball writers" have no idea what they are talking about. Or they'll skew facts to fit whatever opinion they want to express. That's why I told JTB to do his OWN research concerning this.

[Sothron]

I can't believe we have people that think Iggy is a PF and Smoove is a SF. Next I'll hear that Dwight Howard is a PG and Chris Paul is a C.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Sothron

[benhillboy]

It's really not how big a player is . . it's how big a player PLAYS. The fact is that we now have a backcourt that does NOT play bigger than what they are. Teague and Lou will attack the rim on offense, but neither guy has any shot guarding a guy like Derrick Rose at PG. Anthony Morrow has no shot at guarding a strong 2 guard like Dwyane Wade. That's the problem. People keep looking at one side of the ball, like offense is going to save us. No. If we can't stop people, we're not going to be a better team . . . even if we do score more points as a team. We'll simply be Golden State East, who ironically had to give up their pipe dream of a 6-3 . . 185 lb Stephen Curry at PG . . and a 6-3 . . 185 lb Monta Ellis at SG. Both are PG height and weight and both end up being a distinct liability on defense when having to guard a bigger and heavier 2 guard. Hawks backcourt Jeff Teague: 6-2 . . 181 lbs Devin Harris: 6-3 . . 192 lbs Lou Williams: 6-1 . . 175 lbs John Jenkins: 6-4 . . 220 lbs Anthony Morrow: 6-5 . . 210 lbs DeShawn Stevenson: 6-5 . . 218 The problem with this roster, is that the best guards on the team are all PG size . . but will be asked to play some 2. If this team is committed to giving Lou Williams significant minutes, he's going to take minutes from either Teague, Harris, Morrow, or Jenkins. So what are the Hawks going to do at the end of games? Throw 6-2 . . 181 lb Jeff Teague at PG . . . and 6-1 . . 175 lb Lou Williams at the 2? That's the Golden State model . . and it has NEVER worked for them. The last time the Warriors made the playoffs, they had 6-3 . . 215 Baron Davis . . . and 6-6 . . 220 lb Jason Richardson at SG . . . with Monta Ellis being in the 6th man role. Make no mistake about it, our backcourt is undersized like hell. We're also undersized at the 3, which will be an even bigger issue. Josh Smith may be forced to play the 3 because of this midget lineup, and that may be a recipe for disaster for this team.

Me and North have gone at it in the past, but I can't agree more here. My logic tells me I want a slightly larger backcourt than average. This newer NBA wants to tell you that you want speed and quickness over size. That's disregarding the defensive end. Like North said, our guard depth doesn't play big enough. And sometimes a player could be average size, but have outstanding wingspan like a Rondo. None of these guys have that, nor the defensive tools how to use it if they did. Joe and Kirk saved our bacon many a night with their ability to check 1s through 3s with no problem. And with all that speed and quickness from smaller or average sized guards, in today's NBA it's just a higher probability for a charge call against a bigger player whose taking up more space. I'll take a larger guard who has no problem defending his position, can rebound for his position, and post over some small, quick gunner any day, regarless of what the trends say. I'm positive Ferry intends to increase our average guard size considerably before the 2013 season starts. Our defensive ranking in points allowed is gonna take a nose dive, and our frontcourt will be unchanged. It won't take a rocket scientist to figure out why.

[JTB]

Thank you. Because that was the exact link I was about to pull up. Anybody that watches basketball knows that Iggy is a SF and not a PF. Honestly, a lot of these people these days that write basketball blogs, are no more qualified to give an opinion about a subject than you, I or anybody else. But it's obvious that some of these "basketball writers" have no idea what they are talking about. Or they'll skew facts to fit whatever opinion they want to express. That's why I told JTB to do his OWN research concerning this.

ok i can admit when im wrong but the nba is still getting smaller nonetheless