The Cold Hard Facts

[Vol4ever]

The bottom line of the trading of Howard to LA tells me a few things...........1. Yep I believe the conspiracy theorist that the NBA is fixed.2. The Hawks lost out on their only chance to get a bona-fide super star player.3. The Hawks will not ever have the talent level of Miami who has two stars.4. If you dont believe the Lakers with Kobe and D12 are not legit contenders then you have issues.Talk about cap room all you want, we will just overpay a low level star player unless we can make a trade for a superstar.Yeah, I'm pissed.........................

Edited August 10, 2012 by Vol4ever

[tonegully]

The bottom line of the trading of Howard to LA tells me a few things........... 1. Yep I believe the conspiracy theorist that the NBA is fixed. 2. The Hawks lost out on their only chance to get a bona-fide super star player. 3. The Hawks will not ever have the talent level of Miami who has two stars. 4. If you dont believe the Lakers with Kobe and D12 are not legit contenders then you have issues. Talk about cap room all you want, we will just overpay a low level star player unless we can make a trade for a superstar. Yeah, I'm pissed.........................

1. I think the league is fixed to an extent. Lets see where Orlando drafts at this and next year. If they get 1 or 2 this its rigged. 2. Howard and Fegan didnt want to come to ATL. So we didnt lose out on anything. We saved our selves from 10 years of lottery basketball 3. We also dont have a Dwade to recruit, We also dont have Pat Riley 4. Lakers are no joke but all their stars on the wrong side of 30 But we do have cap room just incase something goes bad. Bynum lives in ATL doesnt he? Who want to live in Philly lol Edited August 10, 2012 by tonegully

[MrMeltdown]

Please, I agree to a extent but my question is still the same what were people ready to build a statue for anyway? He has not done anything but get rid of undesirable contracts for no talent in return. Look at the players that just got traded. We could use Iggy and or Bynum but this guy can't see pass the bottom line. No matter what you think, they talked about the bottom line in those meetings when he was interviewing and you will see that he is not far from Sund. He may make moves but I seriously doubt he ever does anything to put us over the top, like actually getting Bynum could have done.

Edited August 10, 2012 by MrMeltdown

[tonegully]

This is the type of stuff im talking about. Iggy doesnt do anything for us. Why waste cap space? Bynum knees are bad. Plus we can get him in FA if Ferry wants to.Ferry is working magic and i have the patience to see it through.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Please, I agree to a extent but my question is still the same what were people ready to build a statue for anyway? He has not done anything but get rid of undesirable contracts for no talent in return. Look at the players that just got traded. We could use Iggy and or Bynum but this guy can't see pass the bottom line. No matter what you think, they talked about the bottom line in those meetings when he was interviewing and you will see that he is not far from Sund. He may make moves but I seriously doubt he ever does anything to put us over the top, like actually getting Bynum could have done.

Maybe Bynum but Iggy.... heck no. The ppl in Philly was hoping to get a ham sandwich for him. They can't believe they got Bynum. I guess Denver is willing to take all the players other teams and fans will give away for a hot dog..... Marvin for Devin... Mcgee for Nene... now they help Philly get Bynum for Iggy.... Lord help them. lol Edited August 11, 2012 by Brotha2ThaNite

[tonegully]

Iggy..the problem here is you guys just want people. Iggy does nothing for us. absolutely nothing. Lakers and Orlando didnt want Bynum for a reason and immaturity has nothing to do with it.

[MrMeltdown]

Maybe Bynum but Iggy.... heck no. The ppl in Philly was hoping to get a ham sandwich for him. They can't believe they got Bynum. I guess Denver is willing to take all the players other teams and fans will give away for a hot dog..... Marvin for Devin... Mcgee for Nene... now they help Philly get Bynum for Iggy.... Lord help them. lol

Marvin for Devin was a Utah deal

[MrMeltdown]

Iggy..the problem here is you guys just want people. Iggy does nothing for us. absolutely nothing. Lakers and Orlando didnt want Bynum for a reason and immaturity has nothing to do with it.

I have never seen anything to indicate what you say is true. Yes, Bynum has been injured too often but the guy is in his early to mid 20's and the second best C in the NBA and has a expiring deal. So, you are not even locked into the guy. Makes 0 sense to insinuate teams did not want because he has a injury history. Brook Lopez missed damn near a whole season and just signed a nice big long contract. True Centers are hard to come by.

[Diesel]

This is the type of stuff im talking about. Iggy doesnt do anything for us. Why waste cap space? Bynum knees are bad. Plus we can get him in FA if Ferry wants to. Ferry is working magic and i have the patience to see it through.

Tone... Here's the problem. We're sitting up talking about who can't help us... on paper... and how this guy can't win... on paper... but we've just given ourselves a whole lot of Journeymen and we did it for the capspace. The problem is that if you think we're going to get some Superstar to drop what he's doing to come and play for us... You're drinking the kool aide. Hell, we all hoped that Dwight would come home and lead us to our first title with Smoove in tow. Now, we know that that is not going to happen. What now? We have gone from a franchise that was maybe one to two pieces away to one that will be sifting though the draft hoping to find the next Bobby Fisher. Well, at least we will have money along the way. Maybe that means that our owners won't sell???@?!??

[DJlaysitup]

...True Centers are hard to come by.

I think we have a real shot at getting D12 and Smoove together here in the ATL. //////////////// FutureNews: "Today Dwight Howard signed a one year contract to play alongside his old AAU buddy Josh Smith for the Atlanta Hawks. Even at the age of 41 Howard feels he can do spot duty in the paint and help the Hawks with his veteran influence. Said Head Coach Shelden Williams "Dwight and Josh will be able to serve as veteran leaders for our young core". The Hawks young core, coupled with Dwight and "Smoove", have made it plain in the "rising back up" ads around the city that they expect the Hawks to be back in the playoffs after a decade-long absence. Additionally, the Atlanta Ownership Group, now known as the "Atlanta Sports Alliance" has bought half ownership in the Woman's Semi-Professional Volleyball team...the "Atlanta Gold Diggers"...who will play bi-monthly at the Gwinnett Center...tickets will be available soon...don't miss out !! Edited August 11, 2012 by PetroBlast

[Guest Walter]

We have gone from a franchise that was maybe one to two pieces away to one that will be sifting though the draft hoping to find the next Bobby Fisher. Well, at least we will have money along the way. Maybe that means that our owners won't sell???@?!??

A franchise in the LT with a seemingly untradeable contract that was one or two superstars away with no means through which to acquire it/them compared to a team with $35-45 million in cap space who will lose a few more games this year but who can make creative deals, sign FAs, and if not then rebuild (rather than waiting 3 years to do so due to JJ's contract). I've never seen so many whinny ninnies in all my life. Never. In one week Danny Ferry did what everybody had wanted and besides the most cap space this franchise has ever had next year he got a future 1st, Devin Harris, and Morrow for the worst existing NBA contract and MW (who had an opt in clause). I don't get it. He moved the immovable contract and people are clamoring for the weight of that albatross back around the franchise's neck. Soon Diesel will be begging for MW back. We were in the worst situation in NBA sports. Aging, capped out mediocrity and financial inflexibility. We're still mediocre but we can at least be flexible. I don't know what the future holds but I do know our chance at a title within the next 8-10 years increased the day we traded JJ. They couldn't have gotten much lower with him and his contract however. W

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Marvin for Devin was a Utah deal

Damn, I keep forgetting that. lol Thanks!

[Diesel]

A franchise in the LT with a seemingly untradeable contract that was one or two superstars away with no means through which to acquire it/them compared to a team with $35-45 million in cap space who will lose a few more games this year but who can make creative deals, sign FAs, and if not then rebuild (rather than waiting 3 years to do so due to JJ's contract). I've never seen so many whinny ninnies in all my life. Never. In one week Danny Ferry did what everybody had wanted and besides the most cap space this franchise has ever had next year he got a future 1st, Devin Harris, and Morrow for the worst existing NBA contract and MW (who had an opt in clause). I don't get it. He moved the immovable contract and people are clamoring for the weight of that albatross back around the franchise's neck. Soon Diesel will be begging for MW back. We were in the worst situation in NBA sports. Aging, capped out mediocrity and financial inflexibility. We're still mediocre but we can at least be flexible. I don't know what the future holds but I do know our chance at a title within the next 8-10 years increased the day we traded JJ. They couldn't have gotten much lower with him and his contract however. W

The problem here. NO MEANs? Really? YOu think that... with all the tradable pieces we had?? Marvin got us Devin Harris. What would Smoove or Horf have gotten us? Imagine Harris and Gasol coming in? After watching Gasol play yesterday.. I'm still pissed that we obviously turned down a trade for him. Horf, Gasol, and Joe would have been a very good big three.

[Diesel]

I've never seen so many whinny ninnies in all my life. Never. In one week Danny Ferry did what everybody had wanted and besides the most cap space this franchise has ever had next year he got a future 1st, Devin Harris, and Morrow for the worst existing NBA contract and MW (who had an opt in clause). I don't get it. He moved the immovable contract and people are clamoring for the weight of that albatross back around the franchise's neck. Soon Diesel will be begging for MW back. We were in the worst situation in NBA sports. Aging, capped out mediocrity and financial inflexibility. We're still mediocre but we can at least be flexible. I don't know what the future holds but I do know our chance at a title within the next 8-10 years increased the day we traded JJ. They couldn't have gotten much lower with him and his contract however. W

You know why people are whining. Cause we have freakin been here before. Where we are going is not for the faint at heart and you know this. It won't take but two losing seasons and being amoungst the Wizards and the Cavs before we all become little whinny ninnies. Why am I so pissed? I'm pissed because we had our hands on good possibilities and we traded it all away for nothing. We kowtowed. We played to the marching drum of those who have less than us. We gave away everything so that we can say... we have capspace. In a time when winning teams are putting 3 superstars together to be competitive, what do we do.. we trade away our only bonafide star in order to have capspace? If you think we were ridiculed for giving Joe a large contract... Just wait and see how badly they will talk about us for trading him for capspace. You Hawks fans better hope that Brooklyn doesn't win the East or win it all...

[macdaddy]

You know why people are whining. Cause we have freakin been here before. Where we are going is not for the faint at heart and you know this. It won't take but two losing seasons and being amoungst the Wizards and the Cavs before we all become little whinny ninnies. Why am I so pissed? I'm pissed because we had our hands on good possibilities and we traded it all away for nothing. We kowtowed. We played to the marching drum of those who have less than us. We gave away everything so that we can say... we have capspace. In a time when winning teams are putting 3 superstars together to be competitive, what do we do.. we trade away our only bonafide star in order to have capspace? If you think we were ridiculed for giving Joe a large contract... Just wait and see how badly they will talk about us for trading him for capspace. You Hawks fans better hope that Brooklyn doesn't win the East or win it all...

So you think Joe is going to take a team that couldn't make the playoffs to a title? You think Joe, Pau, Horf would get us there when Kobe, Artest, Pau, Bynum couldn't? You think it was a mistake to trade our 'only bonafide star' on the downside of his career when no one thinks he's a star anyway. Especially not the ticket holders. You think it was a mistake to get rid of one guy to gain the ability to have more than 4 nba quality players on the team?

This isn't what BK did despite your insistence because we have two guys still on the roster who are bona-fide stars and in their prime. Those are the guys you don't dump. Did Pau make it to the finals or did he get beat by a bunch of young guys in their prime?

The point of having cap space isn't only to sign a big time free agent. Its to be able to make trades for big time players. When guys are on the move at the trade deadline you have to able to pull the trigger.

[AHF]

Lakers and Orlando didnt want Bynum for a reason and immaturity has nothing to do with it.

The Lakers didn't want Bynum in the same way that a team could trade Dwayne Wade for Kevin Durant suddenly wouldn't want Wade. It isn't that the Lakers were looking to get rid of Bynum....it is that they had a chance to seriously upgrade the position. Orlando didn't want Bynum because it knows Bynum won't resign and that they will suck in the short-term either way so you might as well go for the future and avoid Bynum costing you a top pick next season by playing well and then leaving.

[wolvetigers]

Not sure if I agree that the league is fixed...1) Howard going to LA is not a surprise...2) Hawks could of drafted Paul, Deron Williams and effectively change the course of our Franchise...Due to poor decisions we pass on every opportunity to build a legit franchise..3) Luckily the Hawks have Horford & Smith to build around but to be seen as elite you have to act Elite. Teams like the Lakers just reload. You never here lakers talking about 'tanking' or building through the draft etcFerry was brought in to improve the team, change culture, and enhance the image of team. Hawks No shortcuts for the Hawks..we will have to build a team the right way...and if the NBA somehow derails us then you can scream 'Fixed'

[Diesel]

So you think Joe is going to take a team that couldn't make the playoffs to a title? You think Joe, Pau, Horf would get us there when Kobe, Artest, Pau, Bynum couldn't? You think it was a mistake to trade our 'only bonafide star' on the downside of his career when no one thinks he's a star anyway. Especially not the ticket holders. You think it was a mistake to get rid of one guy to gain the ability to have more than 4 nba quality players on the team?

This isn't what BK did despite your insistence because we have two guys still on the roster who are bona-fide stars and in their prime. Those are the guys you don't dump. Did Pau make it to the finals or did he get beat by a bunch of young guys in their prime?

The point of having cap space isn't only to sign a big time free agent. Its to be able to make trades for big time players. When guys are on the move at the trade deadline you have to able to pull the trigger.

I think Joe and Deron make up the best Backcourt in the NBA. I think that Lopez and Crash are not slouches. I think that Last year was the combination of injuries, tank, and Deron wanting to leave. I think that going from NJ to Brooklyn will give them new fans and new excitement.

I also think that yes sir indeed that Horf, Gasol, and Joe would have definitely taken us farther than the 2nd round.

Do I think it was a mistake to get rid of 1 guy for the possibility of getting 4? Show me the 4!!!

What you fail to understand MD is chemistry. Get your Chem book out.. turn it to section 2.3.. where it talks about synergy. Better yet, start at section 1.4 where it talks about Kinetic vs. Potential energy. You see, what we had was Kinetic energy. It was energy that does something. It was Energy that was measurable. What we have now is potential energy. IF nobody pushes that rock, it will go nowhere. That energy does nothing. Having capspace is potential energy.. however, it is dependent on somebody else.

[AHF]

I think Joe and Deron make up the best Backcourt in the NBA. I think that Lopez and Crash are not slouches. I think that Last year was the combination of injuries, tank, and Deron wanting to leave. I think that going from NJ to Brooklyn will give them new fans and new excitement.

We will see it this season and the proof will be in the pudding. If JJ can lead a team to a championship, he now has his shot as his current team has some assets and no major holes on the court. I don't think that team is a contender but I don't think JJ can lead a contender.

[thecampster]

I think Joe and Deron make up the best Backcourt in the NBA. I think that Lopez and Crash are not slouches. I think that Last year was the combination of injuries, tank, and Deron wanting to leave. I think that going from NJ to Brooklyn will give them new fans and new excitement.

I also think that yes sir indeed that Horf, Gasol, and Joe would have definitely taken us farther than the 2nd round.

Do I think it was a mistake to get rid of 1 guy for the possibility of getting 4? Show me the 4!!!

What you fail to understand MD is chemistry. Get your Chem book out.. turn it to section 2.3.. where it talks about synergy. Better yet, start at section 1.4 where it talks about Kinetic vs. Potential energy. You see, what we had was Kinetic energy. It was energy that does something. It was Energy that was measurable. What we have now is potential energy. IF nobody pushes that rock, it will go nowhere. That energy does nothing. Having capspace is potential energy.. however, it is dependent on somebody else.

Diesel,

I still can't believe you don't understand this. It isn't even the "possible 4". Keeping Joe would have meant losing others and here is the important part "AND NOT BEING ABLE TO REPLACE THEM WITH EQUAL PIECES".

D, let's pretend for a minute the Hawks kept Joe. Fast forward to 2013. You have $38 million on the roster. Jenkins, Teague, Horford, Smith. You can afford one free agent. You've lost Marvin, Smith, Paculia, Johnson. You have $20 million to spend and then you get nothing but vet minimums. Let's pretend you somehow miraculously got Bynum to sign for the max (because letting Smith walk, Howard wasn't coming). You'd have Teague, Joe, someone, Horford, Bynum. That is a good start. But Teague is up the next season and will command 5-9 million. You'll have a rookie mandatory you must shell out and you have to fill 8 slots with about 14 million. No one who wants a multi-year deal is coming.

Trading Joe wasn't about getting 4 scrubs, it was choosing to keep the young, in their prime players. If you don't trade Joe, you can't do the Marvin deal because Harris added salary. You can't do the Korver deal, you don't have Morrow or Lou Williams. Its basic math Diesel. Nobody hates Joe and the ASG aren't cheap. They were living with a reality of a bad contract.

You will see with NJ this year how much JJ's contract will affect them. They have no real bench. Every time one of their starters is injured, they will struggle. If Deron goes down for any length of time they will down right suck.

The problem with building the team like NJ has is that each individually talented offensive player needs shots to continue to be that player. There aren't enough on a team when you build for 5 offensive talents. Each of their 5 will be on the floor for 35 minutes a night. 30 of those minutes they will be with each other. In those 30 minutes, they will see 60 possessions - an average of 12-13 points each. Joe won't average close to his 20 ppg, nor will Lopez. There aren't enough shots to go around. They will all become mortal. When the bench comes in, the team will struggle mightily.

By the way, this is part of the reason Marvin's numbers were low here. He had to share the ball with Horford, Joe, Crawford, Smith. I fully expect Marvin to mystically be a 15/7 guy in Utah.