Danny Ferry - the Grim Reaper

[MrMeltdown]

It's only false hope when you don't have any solid proof that anything will be done... Ferry has shown that he is not afraid to make moves. The ownership have backed off and Smoove is back in our good graces. Jenkins looked like our starting 2 guard of the future in SL and Lou Williams sign the MLE with us. This time last year, I had no hope at all for the Hawks. I was really hoping the season was going to be cancelled... IFWT

There is already plenty of solid proof that teams going the cap space route or rebuild route fail to get to the point we were currently at the overwhelming majority of the time.

[MaceCase]

There is already plenty of solid proof that teams going the cap space route or rebuild route fail to get to the point we were currently at the overwhelming majority of the time.

You are applying the wrong example to back your opinion. In fact there simply is no proof to back your opinion up unless you took the time to compile data and I doubt that. In fact, weren't you saying that you wouldn't be surprised if such proof was actually invented......as in you are forming an opinion based on a hunch that maybe scientists 20 years from now would maybe prove right. The only actual study was on teams that blatantly tank in hopes of taking a big leap that end up eventually failing. The study actually proved that teams that stayed in the average to good ratio tended to make a much easier (and likely) leap than the tank for lotto balls crowd. Now, if Danny Ferry was in the former camp.....explain why he burned cap resources collecting proven veterans Louis Williams and Kyle Korver? Explain why instead of drafting pure projects he went with more NBA ready prospects instead? Yea, this is definitive signs of a GM going the save money and rebuild route..... That and OMG, he didn't get Bynum!!!

[Guest Walter]

There is already plenty of solid proof that teams going the cap space route or rebuild route fail to get to the point we were currently at the overwhelming majority of the time.

There is absolute proof that mediocre luxury tax teams outside the large markets cannot progress to win a title. A small chance is better than no chance.

[MrMeltdown]

You are applying the wrong example to back your opinion. In fact there simply is no proof to back your opinion up unless you took the time to compile data and I doubt that. In fact, weren't you saying that you wouldn't be surprised if such proof was actually invented......as in you are forming an opinion based on a hunch that maybe scientists 20 years from now would maybe prove right. The only actual study was on teams that blatantly tank in hopes of taking a big leap that end up eventually failing. The study actually proved that teams that stayed in the average to good ratio tended to make a much easier (and likely) leap than the tank for lotto balls crowd. Now, if Danny Ferry was in the former camp.....explain why he burned cap resources collecting proven veterans Louis Williams and Kyle Korver? Explain why instead of drafting pure projects he went with more NBA ready prospects instead? Yea, this is definitive signs of a GM going the save money and rebuild route..... That and OMG, he didn't get Bynum!!!

There is plenty of proof to back just what I said. The Bulls decided to move on from a 6 x champion team and go in another direction which included significantly cutting payroll and they have yet to get back to that point. The same thing has happened in several locations during several different times in history and teams have rarely come back stronger after they prematurely break a team up in favor of gaining significant cap flexibility. I don't even get your logic here and don't think we are even talking about the same things. Edited August 11, 2012 by MrMeltdown

[Ruckus]

"The Panic Factory"I'm getting a kick out of this.

[ViperXX79]

JJ was just about to win us 7 straight championships. Joe just wanted some other teams to get one before he started his run. Joe's so elite on and off the court.

[MaceCase]

There is plenty of proof to back just what I said. The Bulls decided to move on from a 6 x champion team and go in another direction which included significantly cutting payroll and they have yet to get back to that point. The same thing has happened in several locations during several different times in history and teams have rarely come back stronger after they prematurely break a team up in favor of gaining significant cap flexibility. I don't even get your logic here and don't think we are even talking about the same things.

That's your proof?!?!?!? The 99' Bulls "prematurely" broke up their core.....Really? You keep saying "plenty" of proof but I'm not actually seeing any examples that fit.........or examples at all. Let me know when the Hawks "traded" away Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.....because last I checked the only core member worth a damn that checked out was Joe Johnson by himself and he was closer to Toni Kukoc than any of those guys......and the Hawks weren't even winning a 1st round series yet alone a championship to be lamenting that move. Why don't you use the more recent Bulls example though? They went from a treadmill team (just like the Hawks) to the best in the league after letting Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Duhon, Salmons and Thomas walk from their previous playoff core for nothing but capspace. They seemed to have taken quite a significant leap don't you think?

[Gray Mule]

Explain Amnesty.

Doesn't that mean that you release the player, still owe him all the money his

contract calls for. Then, for that player you no longer have to count any of his

money toward the luxury tax limit.

You mean we could have just released JJ and kept on paying him just like before.

He would no longer have been a Hawk and his payroll wouldn't count toward taxes.

Gee. Wouldn't that be great! And, we wouldn't have all those mediocre players,

IE, those players not worthy of the D-league whose contracts expire at seasons end.

For some strange reason, doing the trade, for some of us, makes more sense.

And, all those completely useless players we took back, we'll see. Maybe they are.

[Ruckus]

JJ was just about to win us 7 straight championships. Joe just wanted some other teams to get one before he started his run. Joe's so elite on and off the court.

Nice.

[Diesel]

When you remodel a house, the first step is demolition... Also, it takes long than one month to "remodel" a team. Danny completed the first two steps in that he cleared cap and then brought in a few pieces for the future. Step 3 won't happen until next offseason...

Usually, when you remodel a house, you have a plan of how you want your house to look afterwards. If not a plan, then definitely a style. With Ferry we have neither a plan nor a style. We just have money in one of the worst free agent drawing markets in basketball and draft picks that don't mean much. Unfortunately, having money doesn't mean that we will automatically get what we want. For instance D-12. He's a Laker now. Notice what the Lakers do. They get talent... and they move talent for better talent. They moved Vlade for Shaq and Kobe. I forget what they moved for Mailman and Payton but it wasn't much. They moved Kwame for Pau Gasol. They moved Bynum for Howard. What do we do? We move talent for nothing. Then we call it addition by subtraction. BUT.. we never go anywhere?

[AHawks89]

I didn't know Hawksquawk had so many GM's!

[DrReality]

Looks like the league is evolving with the super franchises. Heat, lakers maybe others? And then there is the rest of the team stuck in limbo. Don't think we qualify for That rare club. Bthe nba needs some parody before this gets out of control

[Sothron]

Looks like the league is evolving with the super franchises. Heat, lakers maybe others? And then there is the rest of the team stuck in limbo. Don't think we qualify for That rare club. Bthe nba needs some parody before this gets out of control

Due to the nature of the sport itself you'll never have parity. Go look back at the NBA throughout history up until now and you'll see the same thing: superstar led teams win titles while good but not great teams that might be deeper but lack superstars almost never win a title. And by almost never I mean only twice in NBA history has a team without a superstar won a title. What we are seeing now is a more diluted concentration of elite teams. It used to be perhaps five to six teams that might win a title to now only two or three teams that might win a title.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Oh, yeah. Great idea. There are a lot of Russian billionaire owners who publicly indicate they "don't care about the lottery". JJ a year older, slower with a the worst 3 yr remaining contract in the NBA and Pikoff N'dropoff or Yuri N'sane would be begging to take JJ off our hands in 2013 (even knowing they wouldn't be able to ever amnesty him). Begging! Two "assets" even. Probably 3. Seriously, even without the tighter LT rules I don't see how anyone believes that there would have been other, future offers for JJ that wouldn't cost us 1-2 1st rders much less garner us a 1st rder. I also don't get people who see an exchange of MW for Harris as us "getting the last piece". Seriously, the "luxury tax mediocrity or bust" crowd cannot be taken seriously. W

There is a guy in Dallas who would've definitely considered taking a guy like JJ off of our hands, especially after he lost the opportunity to get D-Will and Dwight Howard. Another guy in Cleveland would've done the same thing. A desperate Charlotte franchise would've probably done it too. As well as a few other Western Conference teams. You would've been surprised what kind of offers the Hawks may have gotten, if the franchise simply announced that JJ was on the trading block. Remember, it was the Nets who contacted the Hawks about the possibility of getting JJ, not the other way around. Most NBA teams ( and certainly Hawk fans ) never even considered the possibility that JJ was on the block. Guys with "bad contracts" get traded in this league all the time, because there will always be someone around that either think they need him, or they simply want to get rid of other players.

[Diesel]

Due to the nature of the sport itself you'll never have parity. Go look back at the NBA throughout history up until now and you'll see the same thing: superstar led teams win titles while good but not great teams that might be deeper but lack superstars almost never win a title. And by almost never I mean only twice in NBA history has a team without a superstar won a title. What we are seeing now is a more diluted concentration of elite teams. It used to be perhaps five to six teams that might win a title to now only two or three teams that might win a title.

No. Maybe at the start of the league. But historically, after they expanded beyond 20 teams, there was parity. Especially right before Stern entered. Remember, Stern's legacy is promote the stars. However, before him.. you had Phoenix, NY, Washington, Seattle, LA, Boston, etc. Even in the Stern early years, you had parity...because every team had a star. The last two expansions have watered down the league. Stern also shaved the draft down to 2 rounds... Made the draft more interesting but a lot of talented guys missed out on their chance to make a team. Finally, you have your big name stars conspiring to win a championship by getting together. It's a sign of punkbitchassness. What I mean by that is that guys start saying I can't win. That's the problem.

[Diesel]

There is a guy in Dallas who would've definitely considered taking a guy like JJ off of our hands, especially after he lost the opportunity to get D-Will and Dwight Howard. Another guy in Cleveland would've done the same thing. A desperate Charlotte franchise would've probably done it too. As well as a few other Western Conference teams. You would've been surprised what kind of offers the Hawks may have gotten, if the franchise simply announced that JJ was on the trading block. Remember, it was the Nets who contacted the Hawks about the possibility of getting JJ, not the other way around. Most NBA teams ( and certainly Hawk fans ) never even considered the possibility that JJ was on the block. Guys with "bad contracts" get traded in this league all the time, because there will always be someone around that either think they need him, or they simply want to get rid of other players.

Are you kidding me... Cuban with Dirk and Joe? I'm sure Kobe would have wanted to play with Joe also. It's the difference between a winner's attitude and a loser's attitude. A winner knows that only talent wins. A loser believes that you need more prospects. That's why we have rebuilt 4 times in the last 25 years and have gotten no farther than the 2nd round. That's why the Lakers have never rebuilt but have reloaded 5 to 6 times and have only been in the lottery three times that I can remember in that same period... yet they stay in contention.

[Guest Walter]

Usually, when you remodel a house, you have a plan of how you want your house to look afterwards. If not a plan, then definitely a style. With Ferry we have neither a plan nor a style. We just have money in one of the worst free agent drawing markets in basketball and draft picks that don't mean much. Unfortunately, having money doesn't mean that we will automatically get what we want. For instance D-12. He's a Laker now. Notice what the Lakers do. They get talent... and they move talent for better talent. They moved Vlade for Shaq and Kobe. I forget what they moved for Mailman and Payton but it wasn't much. They moved Kwame for Pau Gasol. They moved Bynum for Howard. What do we do? We move talent for nothing. Then we call it addition by subtraction. BUT.. we never go anywhere?

1) The "house" called the 2012 Atlanta Hawks no longer had a certificate of occupancy. Its present and future were uninhabitable IF your desire was to have a championship banner over your head. It HAD to be torn down! When a lone Russian Billionaire agrees to foot the bill for the Dozer and pay you a 1st for the rubble, you take it and then work out the rebuild details. 2) "Worst FA market"....THAT is the point of flexibility. The only super-team created outside a major basketball market occured through FAcy in Miami. Also, remember JJ came here as a FA. We can at least get the next JJ in FAcy. That MAY be Harden, although I think Harden is better. 3) What the Lakers do has little bearing on what we CAN do. They are in 1 of the 2 super-major markets. They trade talent for more talent because they have deep pockets and because players demand to go there. In sum, no, "having money" doesn't mean we get to build the house we want, especially given major market favoritism, but because we would NEVER hang a championship banner from the rafters of the house in which we used to live and due to the fact that its demolition went so swimmingly, we are posed to rebuild however we must in hopes that the house we build this time will accommodate many banners. W

[atlbraves93]

I can't believe there are people who disagree with Ferry's decision to trade Joe. This was a pretty universally lauded move by everyone in the NBA community. We were never ever going to win a title with him on this team. We got more than we could have asked for.

Edited August 12, 2012 by atlbraves93

[tonegully]

I can't believe there are people who disagree with Ferry's decision to trade Joe. This was a pretty universally lauded move by everyone in the NBA community. We were never ever going to win a title with him on this team. We got more than we could have asked for.

Exactly. Joes contract was killing us. We are in a great position right now.

[Vol4ever]

I would have not have traded Joe unless we made a major move to replace. I thought that Dwight was that move and now I hear the Hawks were never really in it. Once again the good teams like the Lakers get better and we tread water. That is unacceptable to me. Am I asking or expecting too much?