Brandon Bass > Josh Smith

[lethalweapon3]

More salivating from the Celt faithful. Smoove plays flag football with fellow Celts in LA, and... "OMG, Paulie, he's already working out with us!" http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=60026.0 ~lw3

[hawkman]

Any article that says Bass is better than Smoove should be used for toilet paper. I know there are some here who hate Smoove, but has it really come to this? REALLY???

[AHawks89]

Pssshh, did you make this thread, thinking people would agree with the article? You pointed out that this article is very interesting. What do you exactly mean by this?

[TheFuzz]

Trading Josh to the Celtics ain't worth it if Rondo ain't coming back (and he's not). Bradley's not that good.Edit: Unless we're having a fire sale and decide to really tank it. And tanking ain't happening.

Edited September 27, 2012 by TheFuzz

[Kimsey]

Bass ain't really better than Ivan quite frankly. We can assume Ivan can give us some solid play with a proper training camp. Celtics must think we are Orlando or something.

[lethalweapon3]

Pssshh, did you make this thread, thinking people would agree with the article? You pointed out that this article is very interesting. What do you exactly mean by this?

You know you're supposed to use green font! (oh, wait, that's a RealGM rule). At least a wink or something! ;)

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

General league-wide rule in place for many years: depress Smoove's perceived value in hopes it will make it easier to acquire him, either outright in free agency or via trade.

Other teams' fans and coaches and the major-market media are complicit in this. Refrain from clamoring for accolades or recognition when he does well. Howls and screeds when he doesn't.

"Josh had a good month. But let's give the award to Paul Pierce. You know, just to troll."

"No one leading the league in defensive win shares has missed even the All-Defensive Second Team in the last 15 seasons, you say? Hmmm... let's buck the trend this year..."

"Heck, Josh isn't any better than Avery Bradley! Maybe Atlanta will beg us to take Josh Smith for him!"

~lw3

Edited September 27, 2012 by lethalweapon3

[MaceCase]

You telling me there's a league and media wide conspiracy against Josh? Tsk, politics.

[lethalweapon3]

From back in the day (as in, June...) http://hawksquawk.net/community/topic/369870-rumor-celtics-might-trade-josh-for-brandon-bass/ Where's Arnold when I need him to exclaim: "IT'S NOT A WUMAH!" ~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Honestly, I'm kinda shocked when I pulled up Bass' Synergy numbers from last year ( which include regular season + playoffs )OFFENSEShot 47.4% FG overallFavorite shot was the spot up jumper ( no surprise ), but made 46.6% of his shots from that rangeDEFENSEThe man he ends up guarding in any particular possession shot 31.3% FG, which is outstandingEven more outstanding was his defense in ISO situations, in which his man shot 25.5% FG and only gave up 0.58 points per play ( ranking him #14 in the leauge ).Even better than that was his post up defense, in which his man shot 28.3% and only gave up 0.56 points per play ( ranking him #2 in the league ).If you break their skill sets down individually . . yeah . . you CAN probably make a case for Bass > Smith.But the reason why you CAN'T put Bass > Smith, is that Smith impacts the game in so many areas, that it would be silly to take him over Bass ( unless you had a superstar player playing alongside him . . . which he has borderline superstars playing with him in Boston ). Smith makes game changing plays ( both good and bad ). Bass is just going to be steady with very few peaks or valleys. Josh is more likely to make a game winning block or steal or grab a key rebound, than Bass is to make a crucial late game shot or grab a big rebound.If you're looking for a guy to be a 3rd or 4th option on a real good team, then Bass is probably a better alternative than Josh. If you're looking for an impact player on both ends of the floor, Josh is by far the better choice.Josh > Bass

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Gotta love Boston fans. Next they'll be trying to trade Jeff Green for Al Horford.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Having said that . . . if I were a team looking for a solid 4th option who can be efficient on both ends of the court, I probably would take Bass over Josh. A player like Bass has to have good to great players around him who can maximize his abilities. If you need that solid offensive forward who can play defense ( especially in ISO situations . . . 0.56 ppp . . ranking a whopping #2 in that category in the NBA last year ), then Bass may be a solid choice.If you break their games down piece by piece, you may can actually make a case that Bass is at least more "skilled" than Josh in his offense, and fundamentally with his defense.But if you're a team that needs a game changer, there's no way you take Bass over Smith. Despite all of the bad things that Smith tends to do, you just can't overlook the good things either. Josh can flat out save a game with his defensive abilities, especially as a team/help defender. And Josh is by far the superior passer, even with some of the turnovers he commits at times.All I know is that Josh is much more likely to get a game-saving block or steal, than Bass is more likely to make game-clinching shot or assist.Only in Leprechaun Land would a deal of Bass for Josh even be entertained.

Edited September 27, 2012 by northcyde

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Pssshh, did you make this thread, thinking people would agree with the article? You pointed out that this article is very interesting. What do you exactly mean by this?

I knew no one would agree with it. The reason I posted it is because another team's blogger was able to point out the main flaw with Smoove. It's amazing how many people outside of Hawksland thinks that Teague should be an All Star when most on here realize that he has problems with setting up an offense and misses more layups than he makes. Teague is a long way from being an All Star. They think that he should be because he makes great plays on ESPN and the series against Rose. A lot of people thought Joe was the best player on the Hawks, when most of us realize that Horf and Smoove were better. Most peoples opinions of Smoove outside of Hawksquawk is that he takes bad shots and is disgruntled... What I found interesting is that someone outside of the fanbase was able to pinpoint what I believe is Smoove's biggest flaw: He doesn't play within his role and limitations. This makes me ask the question, if the fanbase and the rest of the NBA realize that this is a problem with Smith, then why doesn't he realize it?

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

General league-wide rule in place for many years: depress Smoove's perceived value in hopes it will make it easier to acquire him, either outright in free agency or via trade.

Other teams' fans and coaches and the major-market media are complicit in this. Refrain from clamoring for accolades or recognition when he does well. Howls and screeds when he doesn't.

"Josh had a good month. But let's give the award to Paul Pierce. You know, just to troll."

"No one leading the league in defensive win shares has missed even the All-Defensive Second Team in the last 15 seasons, you say? Hmmm... let's buck the trend this year..."

"Heck, Josh isn't any better than Avery Bradley! Maybe Atlanta will beg us to take Josh Smith for him!"

~lw3

I wouldn't put it pass Boston or LA fans to do something like that... Try and lower his value to pick on a small market team. Off topic, but is there a such thing as a medium market team?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I knew no one would agree with it. The reason I posted it is because another team's blogger was able to point out the main flaw with Smoove. It's amazing how many people outside of Hawksland thinks that Teague should be an All Star when most on here realize that he has problems with setting up an offense and misses more layups than he makes. Teague is a long way from being an All Star. They think that he should be because he makes great plays on ESPN and the series against Rose. A lot of people thought Joe was the best player on the Hawks, when most of us realize that Horf and Smoove were better. Most peoples opinions of Smoove outside of Hawksquawk is that he takes bad shots and is disgruntled... What I found interesting is that someone outside of the fanbase was able to pinpoint what I believe is Smoove's biggest flaw: He doesn't play within his role and limitations. This makes me ask the question, if the fanbase and the rest of the NBA realize that this is a problem with Smith, then why doesn't he realize it?

Because he wants to be "the man". And when you're "the man", you have the leeway to not only play outside of your comfort zone, you're almost encouraged to do so. So while Coach Drew called Smith a "kamikaze" last year, he did nothing to reign him in, out of fear of limiting the good things that come out of Josh playing "kamikaze".

When you saw in that interview earlier this week in the AJC about Josh probably not entertaining ( or being given ) an extension, you saw Ferry mention "Josh and his handlers/associates". And I'm sure that his "associates" are constantly telling Josh that if he just did "this and this", he can become an All-Star, even a superstar.

Josh does not have a "role player's mentality". He wants to be the star. And it doesn't help when we have a part owner that says that Josh is the "closest thing to Lebron we have in the league." That encourages Josh to be an even bigger star.

Stars take chances. Stars take bad shots. Stars play "hero ball" ( which you'll see a lot of that out of Josh this season ). But the thing that makes you an All-Star or a superstar, is if you can do the things that stars do, and do them well.

[lethalweapon3]

Fun quiz question since I have nowhere else to put it:Q: Among players taking at least one jumpshot per game (minimum 20 games played) from 16-23 feet out last season, Brandon Bass and Kevin Garnett of the Celtics ranked in the top ten in FG%. Which current Atlanta Hawks player ranked higher than both of them, ranking in the top five in FG%?~lw3

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Fun quiz question since I have nowhere else to put it: Q: Among players taking at least one jumpshot per game (minimum 20 games played) from 16-23 feet out last season, Brandon Bass and Kevin Garnett of the Celtics ranked in the top ten in FG%. Which current Atlanta Hawks player ranked higher than both of them, ranking in the top five in FG%? ~lw3

In 2010 - 11, the answer would've been Horford/ I know Lou Williams was very good from the midrange last season, so I'll guess him. It'll probably be someone I'd never guess though. Heck. Jamal Crawford used to be very good from midrange, but he'd lower his overall shooting percentage on all shots 16+ feet, with all of those 3s he took. Edited September 27, 2012 by northcyde

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Because he wants to be "the man". And when you're "the man", you have the leeway to not only play outside of your comfort zone, you're almost encouraged to do so. So while Coach Drew called Smith a "kamikaze" last year, he did nothing to reign him in, out of fear of limiting the good things that come out of Josh playing "kamikaze".

When you saw in that interview earlier this week in the AJC about Josh probably not entertaining ( or being given ) an extension, you saw Ferry mention "Josh and his handlers/associates". And I'm sure that his "associates" are constantly telling Josh that if he just did "this and this", he can become an All-Star, even a superstar.

Josh does not have a "role player's mentality". He wants to be the star. And it doesn't help when we have a part owner that says that Josh is the "closest thing to Lebron we have in the league." That encourages Josh to be an even bigger star.

Stars take chances. Stars take bad shots. Stars play "hero ball" ( which you'll see a lot of that out of Josh this season). But the thing that makes you an All-Star or a superstar, is if you can do the things that stars do, and do them well.

Josh isn't "playing outside his comfort zone", he is trying to be someone he is not. He is trying to be LeBron, Kobe, or Jordan. If Smoove would just be Smoove, then he would excel in this league and be an All Star. That's why Horf was an All Star after only 3 years. Horf does what he does best and flies high doing so. You don't see Horf trying to jack up three's or attempting to run the point. Horf hustle, gets rebounds, and knocks down that mid-range shot of his. Smoove offensive game is attacking the hoop either from the outside in or after a rebound, not jacking up long twos or threes, breaking down an opponent, or attempting to run the offense.

Fun quiz question since I have nowhere else to put it:

Q: Among players taking at least one jumpshot per game (minimum 20 games played) from 16-23 feet out last season, Brandon Bass and Kevin Garnett of the Celtics ranked in the top ten in FG%. Which current Atlanta Hawks player ranked higher than both of them, ranking in the top five in FG%?

~lw3

I have a feeling it has something to do with Josh...

[TheNorthCydeRises]

( looking up the answer ) . . lol.And like I said about Brandon Bass. If you just need him to play a role, he can do it. 48% FG from 16 - 23 feet is damn impressive.

[Admin]

Forgive me if it wasn't this SPECIFIC Celtics blog, but last season there was a "Jeff Green > Josh Smith" thread floating in the water up there. ~lw3

I'm sure most comments from Boston fans fit that description of floating in the water!

( looking up the answer ) . . lol. And like I said about Brandon Bass. If you just need him to play a role, he can do it. 48% FG from 16 - 23 feet is damn impressive.

Horf could do that drunk and with 1 hand tied behind his back!