This is exactly what I'm talking about

[GameTime]

I agree that ZaZa didn't do much tonight, but something must be done about this lineup. It simply stinks rebounding wise and you can't win like that.

The "big" lineup wouldn't of been much better this game. We gotta find a way to get Josh off the perimeter.

[Admin]

Maybe its just coincidence but for the 2nd game in a row, a lead vanished when Zaza was taken out of the game and replaced by your favorite player.

My favorite player? You've clearly lost your mind. Just because I understand why Stephenson is on this team and the role he has hardly makes him my favorite player.

And yeah we were up 3 with 6 minutes left when Zaza went out in the 4th. What you like to ignore is that we were up 7 when Zaza came in with 9 minutes left. So in 3 minutes we lost 4 points on the lead with Zaza in there. Then he goes out and Teague and Josh combine for 4 turnovers in the next 4 minutes along with 2 Josh missed jumpers, but I guess that's Deshawn's fault? Got forbid they let Deshawn shoot it since he was only 4-6 from downtown with 12 points tonight. And BTW, who was guarding their PG on the final play and forced him to take a bad 3? Yeah...

I agree that ZaZa didn't do much tonight, but something must be done about this lineup. It simply stinks rebounding wise and you can't win like that.

I agree, I just don't see anything other than effort keeping us from being a better rebounding team. But you're right, you can't win games getting dominated on the glass like this.

Listening to Drew's post game comments and he just doesn't get it. He says the missed box out wasn't Josh's fault? I agree the loss wasn't his fault, but that play was.

Who's fault was it if not Josh's? Let me guess, it was Deshawns fault right PBird??

[Jody23]

My favorite player? You've clearly lost your mind. Just because I understand why Stephenson is on this team and the role he has hardly makes him my favorite player. And yeah we were up 3 with 6 minutes left when Zaza went out in the 4th. What you like to ignore is that we were up 7 when Zaza came in with 9 minutes left. So in 3 minutes we lost 4 points on the lead with Zaza in there. Then he goes out and Teague and Josh combine for 4 turnovers in the next 4 minutes along with 2 Josh missed jumpers, but I guess that's Deshawn's fault? Got forbid they let Deshawn shoot it since he was only 4-6 from downtown with 12 points tonight. And BTW, who was guarding their PG on the final play and forced him to take a bad 3? Yeah... I agree, I just don't see anything other than effort keeping us from being a better rebounding team. But you're right, you can't win games getting dominated on the glass like this. Who's fault was it if not Josh's? Let me guess, it was Deshawns fault right PBird??

I think they did play hard for the most part. I give alot of credit to the Cavs. Al and Josh both played hard tonight as evidenced by their numbers. But there's a ton asked of them being undersized and having to rebound the ball almost by themselves while also doing other things. I don't think it's all an energy thing like Drew tries to make it out to be. Al and Josh need help. Edited December 1, 2012 by Jody23

[Peoriabird]

Who's fault was it if not Josh's? Let me guess, it was Deshawns fault right PBird??

Finally you are starting to get it! -15 +/- is not a made up number!

[Admin]

I think they did play hard for the most part. I give alot of credit to the Cavs. Al and Josh b

They, meaning the majority of the team, got lazy and thought they'd coast when they got that big lead in the 2nd half and that cost us.

Finally you are starting to get it! -15 +/- is not a made up number!

+/- is arguably the worst stat there is out there for a single game, probably as bad as defensive win shares.

[Peoriabird]

+/- is arguably the worst stat there is out there for a single game, probably as bad as defensive win shares.

O.K. he is -24 for the last 2 games!

[Admin]

O.K. he is -24 for the last 2 games!

Anderson Varejao was -5 and -14 his last 2 games so yeah clearly that's a great stat! Certainly more meaningful than his 20 points and 18 rebounds in each of those games.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

How about this Dolfan

Ivan was +15 in 9 minutes. He also grabbed 2 rebounds in those 9 minutes. For the year, Ivan is our 2nd best rebounder amongst the main rotation guys, from a Rebound % standpoint. He's not as good as Zaza, but better than Al and Josh.

And Ivan is our best defensive rebounder, from that same standpoint.

I am against Josh Smith playing SF, if he's going to jack up a ton of jumpers. I'm not against him playing that spot, if he'd play the right way.

Brooklyn takes the complete opposite approach when it comes to their best rebounder . . . Reggie Evans. Reggie is going to get his minutes, and will get rewarded when he makes an impact on games. Drew does the complete opposite with his version of "Reggie" in Ivan.

Teague, Deshawn, and Devin grabbed 2 rebounds . . . TOTAL . . in 103 minutes.

Peoria called this right on the money.

Josh may have failed to box out, but this was a coaching loss from a personnel standpoint. When you score 111 points, but still lose, that's on the coach.

[rusty]

LD lost the game when he started & left in for a large part of the 4th quarter,Harris & Williams .our lead went bye bye. We needed rebounds why the hell didn't he give Ivan minutes.

[AHF]

Free Ivan Johnson!

[Jody23]

How about this Dolfan Ivan was +15 in 9 minutes. He also grabbed 2 rebounds in those 9 minutes. For the year, Ivan is our 2nd best rebounder amongst the main rotation guys, from a Rebound % standpoint. He's not as good as Zaza, but better than Al and Josh. And Ivan is our best defensive rebounder, from that same standpoint. I am against Josh Smith playing SF, if he's going to jack up a ton of jumpers. I'm not against him playing that spot, if he'd play the right way. Brooklyn takes the complete opposite approach when it comes to their best rebounder . . . Reggie Evans. Reggie is going to get his minutes, and will get rewarded when he makes an impact on games. Drew does the complete opposite with his version of "Reggie" in Ivan. Teague, Deshawn, and Devin grabbed 2 rebounds . . . TOTAL . . in 103 minutes. Peoria called this right on the money. Josh may have failed to box out, but this was a coaching loss from a personnel standpoint. When you score 111 points, but still lose, that's on the coach.

I agree about Josh North, but I think we've seen that Josh is going to jack some jumpers no matter what position he's playing. I think the Hawks are going to have to make rebounding a bigger priority even if it means putting Josh at SF more regularly. I think it's been shown that playing a lineup that will help more on the boards is more important than playing Josh at a position where they think he'll get better individual numbers. We can't keep going this way.

[BrazilianHawk]

I would think that tonight would have been a good time to roll out the big lineup with the way that Andy V has been owning the glass. I suspect that if we come out and are getting handled there that we'll see Drew get Zaza in the game early. I'm guessing that LD is more worried about Waiters and the Cavs scorerers than he is their bigs, so we'll see if that's the right strategy or not.

I'm sure that if we lose tonight that LD "will be an idiot" but if we win tonight it will be *crickets around here from the anti-LD crowd.

See, Dolfan, you were right on the money.

LD is an idiot, and it just got proved once again. He tried to lose the game vs the Wiz and the 'Cats, and now he finally succeeded.

Edited December 1, 2012 by BrazilianHawk

[MaceCase]

The "big" lineup wouldn't of been much better this game. We gotta find a way to get Josh off the perimeter.

Yea, It's not like LD ran it for the last 2 minutes of the 3rd (and the 2nd where Ivan amassed the majority of his vaunted +/-) and first 6 minutes of the 4th.......wait are you telling me he had Ivan at SF before replacing him with Josh 3 minutes into the 4th and the Hawks were still losing? I thought that was the remedy to all problems, going big? Oh wait, as an aspect of the big lineup Teague needs to be in but what doomed the Hawks more in that 4th then? Getting outrebounded by 4 or turning the ball over 5 more times (3 of them by Teague alone)?

[Peoriabird]

The other biggest problem with LD is that he just throws line ups together at critical points in the game...I'll be willing to bet that the team has never even practised once with Ivan at small forward. But y'all keep fighting the good fight for him.

[AHawks89]

I like Stevenson as a starter when we don't have the big line up consisting of Teague Korver Smoove Horford and Zaza.

[Admin]

Jody I am all for Ivan getting a lot more PT than he's getting and I really can't understand why he's not getting more. I don't know if he would have made a difference in the outcome last night if he had played more minutes but I would have loved to see him get those minutes either way. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

[Jody23]

Jody I am all for Ivan getting a lot more PT than he's getting and I really can't understand why he's not getting more. I don't know if he would have made a difference in the outcome last night if he had played more minutes but I would have loved to see him get those minutes either way. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah. Drew's handling of Ivan is something else that makes me question his competence as head coach.

[MaceCase]

The other biggest problem with LD is that he just throws line ups together at critical points in the game...I'll be willing to bet that the team has never even practised once with Ivan at small forward. But y'all keep fighting the good fight for him.

But but but Ivan was plus 15 at SF! I thought that's what mattered?!

[Peoriabird]

<p></p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="MaceCase" data-cid="588556" data-time="1354384477"><p>But but but Ivan was plus 15 at SF! I thought that's what mattered?!</p></blockquote><p></p>Ivan didn't play small forward all 9 minutes last night! I don't know whether you are defending Larry Drew or just trying to irritate me but the guy's in game substitutions are just plain terrible and these make shift line ups look lost at times because they have not played or practised together. And I am willing to bet that they look lost because no one knows their role ore when the shot is going up or who is responsible for boxing out and rebounding the missed shot

[MaceCase]

He amassed the majority of his positive plus/minus during runs where he was at SF or at least was sharing a lineup with both Al and Zaza at the same time. Don't believe me, check popcornmachine's gameflows, Dol might still have the link up top.It's okay I'm used to seeing fields chewed up after the goalpost has been moved so many times.LD doesn't start big lineup, he's clueless!LD uses the big lineup, but with Ivan. Idiot!Ivan performs well in the big lineup, so stupid I bet he's never ran that in practice!LD replaces Ivan with Josh, team loses. LD!LD plays Zaza, only 2 rebounds. But +3, big lineup!LD plays Josh, -14 and gets out rebounded by 6'6" SF on pivotal play. Big lineup you dummy!LD sits Teague to start 4th, what a moron!LD puts Teague in the 4th, proceeds to get torched and turn the ball over on reckless drives. LD is clueless!! LD LD LD!It's fine to have a preset scapegoat and all but I enjoy reasonable arguments or at least coherent ones.