I can't help but to wonder if the Joe Johnson ERA was really the hawks ceiling?

[JTB]

Team Chemistry is the key! Team Chemistry is success! Team Chemistry is this new Atlanta Hawks!

We made it to the 2nd round 3 or 4 times I believe in the Joe Johnson era and ALL of us said "ya know what? thats the hawks ceiling!...they can't go any higher!"

Why? Because joe johnson was.......

-selfish by accident

-not a leader he could have been

-never spoke out

Look squawkers I just dont believe we had really hit our ceiling! Had the team chemistry been better we would have better instantly!...Look at this year's Hawks team!....10 new players added to the roster!...Already better chemistry!...Already more heart!...Already more hustle!

I guess Im saying I feel that Joe Johnson held back a talented team! He held back players! I tell you one thing! Talent is so damn overrated! Just look at this talent of the Lakers! and they are 12-13....I will never understand why team chemistry is underrated but it is! I dont think the spurs are a stacked team but they will kick yo ass and compete with the best of the best! This Hawks team has so much more heart and hustle than all the previous hawk teams of the Johnson era it isnt funny! and the roster does not look nearly as talented.

(on a side note) I think had johnson done some things better. this hawks team would have gotten further or at the least put up a strong 2nd round run. It's sad but if you put this new hawks team in similar situations of these past hawk teams I honestly know they will show up better!

Edited December 17, 2012 by JTB

[hawkrule152]

As much as I hate to say it, I think it might have been the ceiling depending on what Ferry does in the offseason.

Its just hard for me to think about the Hawks winning a championship. When thinking about all Atlanta teams, Hawks, Falcons, and Braves. The last two of which all seem to make great additions to the team in hopes of winning a championship. I just cant imagine the Hawks making a huge move to be in SERIOUS contention. (meaning competing with Miami in the playoffs).

You see the Falcons move up to get Julio. Drafted Matty Ice, got burner Turner. Made a move to get the best TE of all time in Tony Gonzalez. All key moves in hoped of winning a championship when they realize the team then wouldnt cut it.

The Braves are making key aquisitions this off season in hopes of making another run at the championship. Right now, they are trying to make a move to bring in Mark Trumbo (a phenomenal outfielder not even in his prime yet) who would be a key asset.

Dont get me wrong, I like the trades that Ferry made, I just hope and pray that this offseason really pays off for us fans.

Hopefully Ferry will be the next Arthur Blank, Frank Wren, or Ted Turner. God knows we could all use it as Hawks fans.

On another note, how about that FALCONS win today? RISE UP ATLANTA.

We may not be getting a Hawks championship in the next few years, but if I did not no any better, I would say the Falcons and Braves are in line for one in the near future.

[Guest]

We are in year #1 of Ferry joining the Hawks. The Falcons did not acquire the team they have now in ONE year. It takes time to get where they are today. This year 5 of Matt's career. 5 years to get to this point.

[DrReality]

Totally agree about chemestry. JJ often times sucked the life out of our offense. Now it is a different guy every night. That's exciting

[frankthetank966]

Completely agree with the OP. I had said that before anyways. JJ is a talented player, however he lost a step the past few years. Additionally, he was not a superstar and was being paid superstar type money. He would have done very well complementing a player like Lebron or Kobe, however the Hawks envisioned JJ as their Lebon/Kobe. He would have never lived up to those expectations. It was necessarily his fault, it was because of his contract.

[capstone21]

Team Chemistry is the key! Team Chemistry is success! Team Chemistry is this new Atlanta Hawks!

We made it to the 2nd round 3 or 4 times I believe in the Joe Johnson era and ALL of us said "ya know what? thats the hawks ceiling!...they can't go any higher!"

Why? Because joe johnson was.......

-selfish by accident

-not a leader he could have been

-never spoke out

Look squawkers I just dont believe we had really hit our ceiling! Had the team chemistry been better we would have better instantly!...Look at this year's Hawks team!....10 new players added to the roster!...Already better chemistry!...Already more heart!...Already more hustle!

I guess Im saying I feel that Joe Johnson held back a talented team! He held back players! I tell you one thing! Talent is so damn overrated! Just look at this talent of the Lakers! and they are 12-13....I will never understand why team chemistry is underrated but it is! I dont think the spurs are a stacked team but they will kick yo ass and compete with the best of the best! This Hawks team has so much more heart and hustle than all the previous hawk teams of the Johnson era it isnt funny! and the roster does not look nearly as talented.

(on a side note) I think had johnson done some things better. this hawks team would have gotten further or at the least put up a strong 2nd round run. It's sad but if you put this new hawks team in similar situations of these past hawk teams I honestly know they will show up better!

I agree that he isn't really a leader or outspoken but Joe was not a selfish player....he carried the team for many years and he was our closer and go to guy. The offense was designed for him and his iso plays but the guys Brick and Horford were still developing and maybe it was time for Joe to leave for them to become more the man but Joe was not selfish.

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

I completely agree! This team has very good chemistry something that the team during the Joe era never had! I don't think you can blame just one person for it: Sund made a team he could around giving one player a max deal, Joe was never the talent that could be a #1 option nor did he have enough help to be successful, Marvin never became the player we all hoped, and we had coaches that didn't play their starters to their correct position - things that LD & DF are able to do now! Although we are smaller now than we were before, we are a deeper team w/o having that BIG contract on the books! I'd take a cheaper Joe back in a heartbeat! Joe is worth maybe $12 mil/yr!!!

[WraithSentinel]

I don't know if anyone saw this the other night. Horf touch on the chemistry of this team compare to previous years. Start around the 1:40 mark.

Edited December 17, 2012 by ThunderHawks

[hawkrule152]

We are in year #1 of Ferry joining the Hawks. The Falcons did not acquire the team they have now in ONE year. It takes time to get where they are today. This year 5 of Matt's career. 5 years to get to this point.

I agree with you, im just saying, before Ferry took over. We kept the same exact teams for like 5 years. Knowing we werent going anywhere. I hope that in 5 years under Ferry we get to the Finals. But as we all know, the Hawks have always struggled since the beginning of their time in Atlanta to get their. Thats the only reason I said we could be at the ceiling. I just hope we can make a huge signing for D12 or CP3. But I just dont see CP3 leaving LAC with their success. ANd with Dwight going to be the main figure in LA once Kobe retires, which could be anytime in the next 3-4 years.

I agree with you, im just saying, before Ferry took over. We kept the same exact teams for like 5 years. Knowing we werent going anywhere. I hope that in 5 years under Ferry we get to the Finals. But as we all know, the Hawks have always struggled since the beginning of their time in Atlanta to get their. Thats the only reason I said we could be at the ceiling. I just hope we can make a huge signing for D12 or CP3. But I just dont see CP3 leaving LAC with their success. ANd with Dwight going to be the main figure in LA once Kobe retires, which could be anytime in the next 3-4 years, its hard for me to see him leaving a huge market like that known for success and championships.

[Wretch]

I agree with you, im just saying, before Ferry took over. We kept the same exact teams for like 5 years. Knowing we werent going anywhere. I hope that in 5 years under Ferry we get to the Finals. But as we all know, the Hawks have always struggled since the beginning of their time in Atlanta to get their. Thats the only reason I said we could be at the ceiling. I just hope we can make a huge signing for D12 or CP3. But I just dont see CP3 leaving LAC with their success. ANd with Dwight going to be the main figure in LA once Kobe retires, which could be anytime in the next 3-4 years.

...and I agree with you about how we've struggled to really get the talent in here. This, to me is problem #1 when you're talking about how high a team can go and you're right on the money about the Braves/Falcons. Though I don't follow them anymore, the methodology is the same. In sports, you have to go up or you have to go down. You can't sit on a "decent" team and expect them all of a sudden to get better. Teams that are good will stay good and teams that suck will eventually rise.

Look at New York and Seattle/OKC...look at how many times Miami and Orlando have "lapped" us...

Teams that are truly in title contention, or even in the discussions about a finals appearance...or a conference finals appearance for that matter, these teams can be cautious about their core. I mean...they're winning and they're winning big. So why screw that up? The thing is, EVEN THESE TEAMS MAKE BIG CHANGES. And it's like, in all my years here there exists this hard-headedness surrounding the Hawks - no coaching changes, no big trades, nothing. Nothing until it is ABSOLUTELY too late and SOMETHING has to happen. You just can't WIN like that...especially when your team is basically stuck at the 2nd round of the playoffs. And even more maddening is the fact that so many people defend this middling and ***proven*** MEDIOCRE methodology!

I know we're waiting on Ferry to do what he has to do, but the mindset has to be different this time. There can't be any untouchables and the focus has to be on getting the right kind of talent AND chemistry here. There can be no if's, and's, or but's about it. It just has to be done and the sooner we figure that out the better. Short of that, this team has to play the right way. Which brings me to why I actually disagree about our ceiling with Joe. JJ wasn't the issue as much as coaching and one other GLARING problem...

What do these guys have in common:

LeBron James, Keven Durant, Kobe Bryant, Russel Westbrook, & Brandon Jennings...

Give up...?

These are the

only players in the league last year that out shot JOSH SMITH (look). Now consider that almost HALF of his shots (540 to be exact) are coming from 12 feet and further.

No you think about that...and you let that settle in your gut. You think about how that affects the team, chemistry, and player development. Man...some stuff has to change around here...I don't care what our record looks like right now. Seriously...? That's how we're rolling?

LOL...HOW are we gonna win like that?

[Plainview1981]

I think it depends on how you look at it.

It appears the Hawks still have a team that will beat most of the bad teams and average teams and they will get a good win every now and then, but will come up short against quality teams most of the time. That's the team the Hawks have had for years, and that is the team that the Hawks appear to still have. That doesn't mean the team is the same... The team has traded size and defense at the guard spots for shooting and better ball movement. Overall, it looks like the results will still largely be the same.

But they are obviously getting a better value this season without Joe's contract.

But the win pattern seems to be the same. As I said, coming up short against the Heat and teams with a balanced offensive attack. But this team can get a win here and there over the Thunder and Memphis. Which they have done in the post. The results are largely going to be the same. Or so it appears right now.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Hotlanta1981

[Randy]

The more I think about, the more convinced I am that the only reason Joe was given a max deal, was ASG wanted to sell the team, and figured they needed to have their star player under contract, and figured they wouldn't be the ones paying his salary for 6 years.

I've watched the Nets a few times. It has been interesting watching Joe play. Doesn't seem like he really fits, though he does contribute and help them win. I had to laugh the other night when he hit the winning basket against the Pistons. Seems like he always beats up on them.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

LOL @ this thread.

Until Jamal Crawford joined this team in 2009, the Hawks literally had only JJ, and ( insert guy who he would pass it to ), to close out games. Bibby could make a big shot . . if set up by JJ. Josh could make a play around the rim . . if set up by JJ with an alley-oop. Horford could hit a midrange jumper . . if JJ passed him the ball.

The entire time Joe Johnson was in ATL, he didn't play with a legit low post scorer, nor a playmaking PG.

Yet people think HE was a chemistry problem? A selfish player?

It's just the opposite. JJ is a little TOO MUCH of a team player at times. It was times in ATL when he definitely should've looked to carry the team himself on offense, instead of passing to a wide open Josh Smith or Marvin Williams. Even Nets fans want JJ to be more aggressive and look for his offense more.

This current group of Hawks are nice to watch. But the jury is still out on them. We got to see how they play against the East elite. That will determine how good these guys really are.

As of right now, they're winning at the same pace of the 2009 - 10 Hawks.

[Gray Mule]

Resentment can mess with your mind and change the outcome of things.

Marvin was always resented by Hawk fans, not necessarily because of

his talent and the way he played, but because of where he was chosen

in the draft and who we passed up.

Joe J. was resented because he was being paid super star money and

he wasn't. He was very good. He brought the Hawks up out of the basement

and into the playoffs. He just wasn't good enough, great enough, to take

Atlanta deeper.

Why would other Hawk players resent JJ? How about the fact that he was

being paid three or four times what they were and was not the super star

that we see around the NBA. Always an all star but never elected.

If you get three or four times as much money to do the very same job that

I do, there had better be a good reason why you get paid this amount and

my pay is so small. If JJ was the only reason the Hawks were in the playoffs,

then, by reason, we have to assume that he is the reason we could get no

further than we did.

We can't blame Marvin for where he was drafted. He didn't draft himself.

Hawks made JJ the offer and he took it. Whose fault was that?

Some see Dwight Howard as the ultimate answer to all our problems. He

signed with who he wanted to and he's playing where he wants to play. If

he's so super, doesn't it stand to reason that his team has to be super also?

Check the standings in the west where he plays. That team may win all the

rest of their games this season and win the championship. Do you believe?

Me either. He has become the JJ of the Lakers. Very good but not the

greatest thing that ever was.

Chemestry is great. A must have. If you could somehow bottle it up and sell

it, teams in all sports from Little League to the Majors would be in line to

purchase it.

No super stars here. Just super chemestry. I like that better.