How to get a Superstar

[tbhawksfan]

For those looking for a SuperstarGuess there are two possibilities; get a ready made superstar or get a guy wholl become one while with us.The 3 ways to get one :FA:A few teams seem to have success with this. The rest get the leftovers. The Hawks get JJ / Mutombo / ClaxtonTrade:A trade can be a very good way to get a superstar. Seems the same teams as in the FA group seem to do real real with trading for available superstars. The last time the Hawks traded for one?Draft:Got to get into the top of the lottery or hit on the 1 in a 100,000So whats the Hawks best chance or path to their Superstar?

[willthepureshooter]

Have a genie on payroll??? MAybe???

[coachx]

Sad to say but the best chance we have is in free agency with Dwight Howard and that is not much of a chance.

I don't think we have the assets to trade for a top 10 player. One reason is that all of the top players are playing for teams who are serious about competing. A few years ago we had the T-Wolves wanting to start over and the Super Sonics wanting to start over and both had superstars around 30 years of age who did not fit a rebuilding plan. That is how Boston traded a young Al Jefferson for Garnet and a lottery pick (Jeff Green) for Allen. Same with Pau Gasol in Memphis.

I don't see any lottery teams in that type of situation right now. Though the Lakers could be there real soon. The Mavericks are holding on to Dirk in hopes he helps them attract a free agent to Dallas with l of their cap space. Dirk is too old to trade for any way in my opinion.

Hawks do not have a lottery pick so that is not even an option. When we were in the lottery for 6 consecutive seasons all we have to show for it is Al Horford. We missed on Sheldon Williams, Acie Law, Josh Childress, and Marvin Williams.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Trade for James HardenOh wait . . .

[MaceCase]

I believe we discussed this a few years back when an article came out that stated the majority of superstars are acquired either through the draft or trade and that only a minuscule amount arrived through free agency. I don't think it'll be any different for the Hawks next season but the beauty of of capspace is that it extends well beyond just getting a guy to sign a contract.

[macdaddy]

Kevin Love is the only one who fits the bill this year and i'd say he is borderline on the superstar scale. The celtics had great luck to land both KG and Allen but they already had Pierce who is the real star on that team (i just threw up in my mouth a little typing that). I'm not sure KG and Allen w/o Pierce is a championship team.

[Wretch]

There's so many ways to get elite talent, but there are some things you just have to understand...

LUCK is involved. There is no way around it. Doesn't matter if your drafting, trading, or trying to get a free agent. Nobody knows how these players are going to turn out. If they did, there's no way Kobe Bryant gets picked 13th and swapped for Vlade Divac. God...I could sit here all day and talk about drafts and trades like MJ, Dirk, and Mookie/Rumeal. The point is, you've got to stop worrying about luck. Problem here is...we can't. Guys just can't get over that fact and it's like this brick hard determination to quantify the process of getting talent. It's just not possible.

Once you get passed that, you also have to come to the understanding that elite talent is required to win big. I have had arguments with people until the cows come home - but at the end of the day, having Kevin Durant is better than having Al Horford. Having Derreck Rose is better than having Josh Smith. Having LeBron James is better than having Jeff Teague. DUR...! Right? You'd be surprised at how many people say "f*** that" and think that building a decent team from spare parts is going to win.

The last thing you have to understand is that it takes TIME. It happens organically, over time. Miami had no idea that LeBron James would be joining them along with Chris Bosh. If you'd have told me a 7 foot jump shooting German would lead a team to a ring, I would have laughed you off the planet. But over time, players get DAMN good, chemistry happens, and contending teams just seem to come together. (For those who like to take the wrong meaning from my words...teams don't magically form together. Shrewd GM's know how to build around key players.)

What this team needs to do is stop pussyfooting around and grow some balls. We have been so protective of our players and coaches and our playoff seeding and anything else that is valuable to us...that we've really just shot ourselves in the face. What we need to do is focus on getting ONE elite talent and grow the team from that. That is step one. The rest will happen as you build around that player.

How?

Use your imagination. I'll tell you what though, having a good team and waiting on an elite player to fall into it is a whole lot different than having an elite player and finding the right pieces to fit around him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Wretch . . . I have to disagree somewhat. While it may take luck to be in the position to get that superstar, it also takes aggressiveness and a GM that knows what the hell he's doing. If the Hawks would've gotten that #1 pick in 2007, who do we take? Greg Oden or Kevin Durant? As much as BK got ripped for not drafting for need by taking the potentially more talented Marvin Williams in 2005, I could easily see him passing on Durant in favor of Oden. That wouldn't be "luck", that would be a GM not identifying who a true superstar talent is. Oden was always hyped as a Bill Russel type of dominant defensive center who could give you timely offense. With JJ, Josh, Marvin, and then Childress still in the mix, there's no way we'd taken Durant over Oden. But that would've been the correct pick, if you're looking for a superstar. What Jerry West did in trading for Kobe was not luck. It was West KNOWING that Kobe was a potential superstar, despite his age, and doing everything possible to move into a position to draft him. http://dimemag.com/2010/02/jerry-west-talked-john-calipari-out-of-drafting-kobe/ What Pat Riley did to lure Lebron and Bosh to Miami was not Luck. It was a master plan. Everyone knew about the free agents that were about to hit the market in 2010. So Riley prepared the Heat for that moment, even having his superstar Wade plant the seeds of it as early as 2006, when they played each other on the USA National team. Then Riley stepped in himself and basically manipulated Lebron into coming to Miami. http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html People called me crazy 2 years ago, when I flat out said that I would trade ANY two of the three stars we had on our team ( JJ, Smith, Horford ) for Dwight Howard. To me, that's the type of move we had to do, in order to bring in a superstar. The minute Dwight started talking about "testing the free agent waters", that would've been the time I would've basically told Orlando to name whatever they wanted, and let's make a deal. I wouldn't have cared if Dwight was on the team just one year. Those are the risks that you have to take sometimes to get to that next level. Look what Houston did with the James Harden deal. Now I know a few people still don't believe this guy is a star, but he looks every bit of at least the 2nd coming of Tracy McGrady. And he's young. And he plays a dynamic style of basketball. And his look is marketable. Houston could've cared less about their young draft picks. They saw a chance to get a guy who they thought could be a superstar. And when OKC thought they were getting a decent deal out of it, the trade was done. And honestly, the same goes with Joe Johnson in Brooklyn. He's not a superstar, but the move enabled them to do the two other things they needed to do. 1) re-sign Deron Williams . . 2) make a long term commitment to another good player Brook Lopez. So now they have their version of the Big 3 . . . a version that "on paper" is much better than our former Big 3 that was a 2nd round team. Yeah, it may take a little luck. But it takes more smarts than luck. Look at Toronto. Ever since Bargnani went down, they've been one of the hottest teams in the Eastern Conference. That team is 10 - 4 without him . . . 4 - 18 with him. Now he has talent, but now is the prime moment to trade him. Trade him for young talent or even a wiley vet that can help that Raptor team even more. But the nature of GMs are to hang onto talent that they drafted, to see if they can get all they can out of him, before moving them. Sound familiar? People have been calling for the Hawks to deal some of their talent for better players for years. We gave JJ away for nothing but cap space, and hope that will be enough to entice a better player to come here. But as people in this thread have said, superstars are normally obtained either via a trade, or through the draft. We're not bad enough to draft a Kyrie Irving . . so will we use a trade to possibly get that superstar? Not if we value Josh Smith and Al Horford like THEY'RE the superstar talent.

Edited January 12, 2013 by northcyde

[Wretch]

Wretch . . . I have to disagree somewhat. While it may take luck to be in the position to get that superstar, it also takes aggressiveness and a GM that knows what the hell he's doing. If the Hawks would've gotten that #1 pick in 2007, who do we take? Greg Oden or Kevin Durant? As much as BK got ripped for not drafting for need by taking the potentially more talented Marvin Williams in 2005, I could easily see him passing on Durant in favor of Oden. That wouldn't be "luck", that would be a GM not identifying who a true superstar talent is. Oden was always hyped as a Bill Russel type of dominant defensive center who could give you timely offense. With JJ, Josh, Marvin, and then Childress still in the mix, there's no way we'd taken Durant over Oden. But that would've been the correct pick, if you're looking for a superstar. What Jerry West did in trading for Kobe was not luck. It was West KNOWING that Kobe was a potential superstar, despite his age, and doing everything possible to move into a position to draft him. http://dimemag.com/2010/02/jerry-west-talked-john-calipari-out-of-drafting-kobe/ What Pat Riley did to lure Lebron and Bosh to Miami was not Luck. It was a master plan. Everyone knew about the free agents that were about to hit the market in 2010. So Riley prepared the Heat for that moment, even having his superstar Wade plant the seeds of it as early as 2006, when they played each other on the USA National team. Then Riley stepped in himself and basically manipulated Lebron into coming to Miami. http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/inside_the_decision_miamis_cou.html People called me crazy 2 years ago, when I flat out said that I would trade ANY two of the three stars we had on our team ( JJ, Smith, Horford ) for Dwight Howard. To me, that's the type of move we had to do, in order to bring in a superstar. The minute Dwight started talking about "testing the free agent waters", that would've been the time I would've basically told Orlando to name whatever they wanted, and let's make a deal. I wouldn't have cared if Dwight was on the team just one year. Those are the risks that you have to take sometimes to get to that next level. Look what Houston did with the James Harden deal. Now I know a few people still don't believe this guy is a star, but he looks every bit of at least the 2nd coming of Tracy McGrady. And he's young. And he plays a dynamic style of basketball. And his look is marketable. Houston could've cared less about their young draft picks. They saw a chance to get a guy who they thought could be a superstar. And when OKC thought they were getting a decent deal out of it, the trade was done. And honestly, the same goes with Joe Johnson in Brooklyn. He's not a superstar, but the move enabled them to do the two other things they needed to do. 1) re-sign Deron Williams . . 2) make a long term commitment to another good player Brook Lopez. So now they have their version of the Big 3 . . . a version that "on paper" is much better than our former Big 3 that was a 2nd round team. Yeah, it may take a little luck. But it takes more smarts than luck. Look at Toronto. Ever since Bargnani went down, they've been one of the hottest teams in the Eastern Conference. That team is 10 - 4 without him . . . 4 - 18 with him. Now he has talent, but now is the prime moment to trade him. Trade him for young talent or even a wiley vet that can help that Raptor team even more. But the nature of GMs are to hang onto talent that they drafted, to see if they can get all they can out of him, before moving them. Sound familiar? People have been calling for the Hawks to deal some of their talent for better players for years. We gave JJ away for nothing but cap space, and hope that will be enough to entice a better player to come here. But as people in this thread have said, superstars are normally obtained either via a trade, or through the draft. We're not bad enough to draft a Kyrie Irving . . so will we use a trade to possibly get that superstar? Not if we value Josh Smith and Al Horford like THEY'RE the superstar talent.

We're on the same page.

I agree with you 150%. My point was that luck was INVOLVED and that you can't worry about that when you're trying to build a team. It's not the main factor - it's just A factor. You just have to keep panning for gold until you get it. I think all too often, people (even those who get paid to build teams) look at the odds of getting a superstar and just throw it out of the window.

And I can promise you that I didn't call you crazy for wanting to trade two players for Dwight. :) I was thinking the same thing. I wanted to reload the team 3 years ago when we got stomped by Orlando. I also thought the Love/Smoove deal people were bringing up was intriguing.

What I was mainly getting at is the understanding of what we're talking about here...

We need elite talent. We know how it's acquired. We know our limitations going through every route - we've been over it a 1000 times in here. The situation kind of spells itself out. As this team bounces up and down in the middle of the standings, hopefully some folks will start to see that. HOPEFULLY, the brass already sees it and is truly working to change the identity of this club.

[Vol4ever]

Bottom line in my mind is if DF thinks Smoove is the star to build around, we are doomed to middle of the pack basketball for the next 5 years or more.....

[Ruckus]

Exactly. His big plays don't even break even with his bonehead plays. One sick pass, then two out of bounds. One sick dunk, then six bricks from well beyond his range. Smoove=DOOM. If he doesn't bring Dwight which seems to be what everyone is hoping for, then he needs to go. Plain and simple.

Edited January 13, 2013 by HawkFan

[coachx]

I'd rather dump Smith and take our chances in the draft lottery then stick with him, play bad basketball, and fight for 5 or 6 seeds in the playoffs. Ferry preaches 3 buzz words to describe how he wants the Hawks to play (smart, solid, and fast). Josh only buys into 1 of DF's 3 core beliefs.