Good to see Josh still taking lots of three pointers

[coachx]

Simple situation. Trade him for young talent and/or picks. I'm starting to hate FAcy. 20 teams afraid to make moves in the event that Howard might choose them when it's highly likely that he stays in LA. Don't want him here anyway.I'd rather my Hawks beat them than trade for them...

Highly unlikely that Howard stays in LA ?

Is that a typo or did you intend to say that ?

[AHF]

Not so long ago there were those pointing out how his shooting % from 3 was great and so much better that his long 2 pointers - it was fools gold.

Just to clarify, I think there have been a lot of people who have said that his 3's are better than the long 2's but the vast majority of them also say that he shouldn't be taking any of those shots. Others have said that you take the bad with the good and that the net benefit from Josh's greater intensity when he is allowed to shoot lots of deep jumpers is worth the cost of those shots. There are other views as well, but I don't think there are many people who have said Josh shooting 3's is a good thing.

It is sad to see this continue because it really limit's Josh's potential.

[tbhawksfan]

Highly unlikely that Howard stays in LA ? Is that a typo or did you intend to say that ?

I'd say the odds he leaves LA are slim to none. Longer contract and LA Lakers, could there be more incentive?Smith should've stopped shooting 3's years ago when it became evident to everyone on the planet that he sucks outside, but has a nice inside game. It's time to move him and build the Hawks around Ferry type players..Horford, Teague, Lou Will... Edited January 14, 2013 by tbhawksfan

[MrMeltdown]

I can see Howard coming here but we will need a PG with Howard, Smith, and Horford all needing to be fed

[Wretch]

The one good thing is the solidarity in this thread. Not seeing a lot of "Oh, it's just a few jumpers" pop up on this.

want us all to take a step back for a moment and look at the larger picture. Look at this thing from a distance...this is a joke. I don't want to blame anybody. Not Ferry, not LD, not the team...not even Josh because he's allowed to do what he does. No, what I want us to do is just look at how things have been ran around here and compare that to how the Spurs or the Celtics run things. Look at how championship organizations function and we're sitting here allowing Josh Smith to go apeshit with the ball. Imagine this happening in LA, Boston, or even Chicago. The mindset of these teams and all of there players is just on a completely different level.

The Atlanta Hawks are a damn sitcom. Seriously. It's a comedy when you think about the elite shooters in the game - guys like Durant and LeBron - and you realize that Josh shoots the ball as much as they do and shoots MORE long 2's than they do. HOW...do you run an organization like that? It's laughable. I'm not trying to condemn anybody, I'm just reiterating that there needs to be some change around here. A MAJOR shift in the way we do business.

[BrazilianHawk]

Just to clarify, I think there have been a lot of people who have said that his 3's are better than the long 2's but the vast majority of them also say that he shouldn't be taking any of those shots. Others have said that you take the bad with the good and that the net benefit from Josh's greater intensity when he is allowed to shoot lots of deep jumpers is worth the cost of those shots. There are other views as well, but I don't think there are many people who have said Josh shooting 3's is a good thing.

It is sad to see this continue because it really limit's Josh's potential.

Frankly, I don't give a ****** about Josh's potential. What pisses me off is that he's hindering the team's potential, so it's about time he's gone.

Just like Josh, the fans want their team to win!

TRADE THE CLOWN ASAP. Heck, just let him walk for nothing if there are no takers.

[benhillboy]

Well lets look at the bright side. All the coaches are looking at the tape of the past few games and the jumpers. Another lost bid for All-Star consideration. That should at least buy us a week or 10 days of torrid play like he usually does after he's "snubbed". I've personally given up on him being a remotely heady player. He's infamous for being the opposite, and acts oblivious to it. I'm positive there are some wires crossed up there.

[AHawks89]

Once Josh leaves Atlanta, wonder who will be the next victim for Hawksquawk? Al Horford or Teague?

[TheNorthCydeRises]

Hawks simply need to make a decision between Horford and Smith, as to who to move forward with. I've long said that the Hawks are/were in the same situation that Golden State was in, with Curry and Ellis. They were 2 great guards who were outstanding at times. But the fact that you had to play both guys at least 35 minutes a game to maximize what they could do, also hurt that team. Why? Because Monta was much too small to guard taller and stronger 2 guards in the league. And Golden State didn't have the type of frontline behind them that could correct defensive breakdowns. So the Warriors organization decides to trade Monta Ellis, much to the dismay of fans. Remember this last year, when Chris Mullin's number was retired, and the Warriors owner came out to speak?

The fans were pissed that their fan favorite was gone. But guess what? The Warriors organizations was RIGHT !! They moved the great scoring, but somewhat inefficient playing Monta Ellis, who was also a defensive liability . . . and gave complete control to Steph Curry. And how did they replace Monta? They didn't. They simply gave guys like Klay Thompson an expanded role, and added Jarrett Jack ( a starting caliber combo guard ) to play the dual role that Monta did ( on a smaller, but more efficient scale ). The result of that has seen Golden State post a 23 - 13 record . . and a #5 seed in the West. And all of this without the guy that they traded Monta for, in Andrew Bogut. Curry has been outstanding. Thompson has turned into one of the better 3 point shooters in the league. And adding Jarrett Jack has proved to be a much better defensive option to play alongside Curry, when the Warriors do play small. The Hawks proved last year that they could survive without Al Horford in the mix. Yes, we may have needed him come playoff time, but we weren't falling off of a cliff without him either. And the same will hold true if Josh Smith weren't on this team, if it came to that. The fact is that the type of shots that Josh takes, can be replaced by players who can and will shoot a higher percentage on those shots. At that point, the thing we need to replace concerning Josh, is his defense. Maybe one guy can't do that. Maybe it will take 2 guys to do it. But it can be done. And I still say that the same way we saw Josh's overall numbers improved without Horford here, that you'd see the same thing if Josh weren't here and Horford had to assume a much bigger responsibility. You'd also see Ivan's numbers improve ( as they always do ) when he gets extended minutes. And you'd see Jeff Teague handling the ball much more in transition situations, making him more effective. Contrary to what Josh Smith fans believe, this team will NOT fall off a cliff without Josh Smith in the mix. That's not to devalue his importance to this team. But he can be replaced. It may not be a popular move, but he can be replaced. The same goes for Al Horford. It's just that if you keep Smith, we'd need a center that is more apt to playing around the rim much more than Horford. We probably need that anyway. The Hawks just can't continue forward with both of these guys basically taking the same types of shots, then act like we need more "energy" when neither of them are in position to rebound the basketball.

[AHF]

Frankly, I don't give a ****** about Josh's potential. What pisses me off is that he's hindering the team's potential, so it's about time he's gone.

I thought this was too obvious to need to be stated, when he shoots the long jumpers and trends toward inefficient offense, it kills his potential and hurts the team's potential. When Josh realizes his potential, it promotes the team's potential. Therefore, I want to see each player moving to realize their potential, to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses.

IMO, Josh has the most potential of anyone on this team and he does the worst job of playing to his strengths of anyone on the team. For the sake of the team, I am probably more invested in seeing him realize his potential than anyone else on the roster.

I don't think that is going to happen under Woodson or Drew (a pair of "enabler" coaches who refused to step up like you know Pops would if that was going on in SA).

[Guest]

I thought this was too obvious to need to be stated, when he shoots the long jumpers and trends toward inefficient offense, it kills his potential and hurts the team's potential. When Josh realizes his potential, it promotes the team's potential. Therefore, I want to see each player moving to realize their potential, to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses.

IMO, Josh has the most potential of anyone on this team and he does the worst job of playing to his strengths of anyone on the team. For the sake of the team, I am probably more invested in seeing him realize his potential than anyone else on the roster.

I don't think that is going to happen under Woodson or Drew (a pair of "enabler" coaches who refused to step up like you know Pops would if that was going on in SA).

I think what he may be trying to say is this should not be about "potential" with JOsh anymore. He has been in the league too long to still be talking about potential. This is who Josh is.

[TheFuzz]

I imagine the moment Dwight says he's staying in LA or going to Dallas Josh gets shipped out. We'll try to sign and trade him if it takes till free agency or we'll simply let him walk.

Or we'll re-sign him, but Ferry likes players that can shoot, pass and adequately defend. Josh only does two of those things and Howard does one of those things.

Edited January 14, 2013 by TheFuzz

[Guest]

Only time will tell but I'd say that Ferry would still retain him regardless of how the summer turns out. If it proves as beneficial as now (don't hold your breath on it "clicking" for Josh) then it could be longterm if not (and even if so) he could be shipped off like Nene was because he'd have a much greater trade market given that he'd be locked in longterm.

I've actually thought about that happening. Sign him to a reasonable deal with the hopes of getting D12 then trading him. Nobody saw the Nene trade coming. That would be too funny.

Only time will tell but I'd say that Ferry would still retain him regardless of how the summer turns out. If it proves as beneficial as now (don't hold your breath on it "clicking" for Josh) then it could be longterm if not (and even if so) he could be shipped off like Nene was because he'd have a much greater trade market given that he'd be locked in longterm.

I've actually thought about that happening. Sign him to a reasonable deal with the hopes of getting D12 then trading him. Nobody saw the Nene trade coming. That would be too funny.

[AHF]

I think what he may be trying to say is this should not be about "potential" with JOsh anymore. He has been in the league too long to still be talking about potential. This is who Josh is.

I accept that there will be no change with Larry Drew as coach. I am not ready to buy into Josh being per se unreachable (i.e., that is just who he is) -- particularly since for one shining season he actually made real progress reducing 3's and overall long J's and that was with a coach that publicly endorsed him shooting 3's. It has been done before and could be done by a standout coach better than Woodson did, IMO, but we won't get the benefit of knowing whether that statement is true or false before he hits free agency.

[Guest]

I accept that there will be no change with Larry Drew as coach. I am not ready to buy into Josh being per se unreachable (i.e., that is just who he is) -- particularly since for one shining season he actually made real progress reducing 3's and overall long J's and that was with a coach that publicly endorsed him shooting 3's. It has been done before and could be done by a standout coach better than Woodson did, IMO, but we won't get the benefit of knowing whether that statement is true or false before he hits free agency.

I agree to an extent - I have always said I would like to see this team and particularly Josh with a different coach. But Josh' play is not all on the coach, he has to take some responsibility in that, he knows he made real progress reducing 3's annd overall long J's because he wasn't good at it. Why keep doing something you are just not good at? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result - INSANITY

Edited January 14, 2013 by JayBirdHawk

[Wretch]

North hit the nail on the head with the Golden State comparison. I'm a huge Josh fan, but I've been beating that drum for some time too. It's not all Josh's fault - which is what the apologists want to take away from this conversation. But the way he plays is responsible for some serious damage to our potential. Of course if you ship him out you're going to lose something. Nobody is denying that... But what apologists refuse to look at is the OVERALL impact of his negative decisions on the court.

Josh is not a shooter and is essentially garbage outside of 12 or so feet. But look at his shot charts every game. When you're not a good shooter and you're taking those kinds of shots, you're basically creating turnovers. There is no benefit here. You don't GIVE the other team opportunities to score and when Josh is taking these HORRIBLE shots (and turning the ball over trying to play PG) he is GIVING the other team MORE opportunities to score. Do people NOT understand this???

The other thing he is doing is taking shots away from people WHO ARE BETTER AT DOING IT. So not only is he giving the opposition more opportunities, he's taking away BETTER shots from teammates...guys who would do well to have more of the scoring burden put on them.

But, I digress...this thing has been discussed ad nauseum.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Wretch

[Wretch]

...and DAMMIT let me quote Jaybird's signature one more damn time:

"We get guys who want to do their job and go home and aren’t impressed with the hoopla. One of the keys is to bring in guys who have gotten over themselves. They either want to prove that they can play in this league—or they want to prove nothing. They fill their role and know the pecking order. We have three guys who are the best players, and everyone else fits around them.” - Spurs coach Greg Popovich.

For the love of GOD man....that just sums it up right there. The whole organization.

[ATLSmith]

Smoove knows that Dwight is coming and needs to improve his outside game to be effective.

By the way, Smoove is shooting 33% from behind the arch, which, isn't actually that bad. I'm not advocating that he takes this shot, just pointing out that he isn't completely terrible with it.

[Guest]

Smoove knows that Dwight is coming and needs to improve his outside game to be effective.

By the way, Smoove is shooting 33% from behind the arch, which, isn't actually that bad. I'm not advocating that he takes this shot, just pointing out that he isn't completely terrible with it.

That 33% is fine when he was taking 1 maybe 2 a game....last 8 or so games he is taking too many 3 pt shots (3, 4 and sometimes 5) and his % over that span is 25%.

[AHF]

Josh absolutely owns responsibility for his poor shot selection and floating on the perimeter. That is on him. That said, I remain sad that we haven't seen him with a coach that would ask and require more from him. He would hardly be the first player to shift his game to a better shape based on a coach's requirements. In short, he hasn't had a coach reigning that in to his detriment, but it doesn't absolve him from blame and I have no hope of any change given the current staff.

Josh's 33% is a mirage. He has had runs in the past where he has shot well but he always comes back down to earth. No reason to expect that to change either.