Brooklyn Nets express interest in Josh Smith

[Jody23]

Gerald Wallace is a bum now. Do they have any picks that have good value?

He definitely isn't a guy I want to see on this team. Not sure they have any more first rounders. I believe they're aim with this is to get back in play for D12, especially if they can move Humphries for cap space. Edited January 29, 2013 by Jody23

[Admin]

Brooks is an off the ball scorer.........he can't creat his own show like the JR Smith and Lou Williams comparisons suggest.

I want a young guy like JJ Hickson......Maybe Portland considers it but probably not.

I have no interest in Wallace unless its part of a 3 way or follow up trade to get a younger player or player on a shorter contract.

Concerning the Nets 1st round pick.......didn't they trade their 1st last year as part of the Deron deal ? In the new CBA can you still not trade your own 1st 2 years in a row ?

Say what now? Marshon is very good at creating his own shot so I'm not sure where that comes from.

From NBADraft.net

Strengths: Brooks gradually increased his scoring average in each of his four years at Providence, finishing his senior year second in the country in scoring at 24.6 points per game ... At 6'5, Brooks has nice size for an NBA two guard, but it's his length that should allow him to get his shot off at the next level ... He has an uncanny ability to create his own shot, using a variety of change of speed/hesitation dribble moves to create separation moving East/West or North/South ... He's proven capable of shooting both off the dribble and off catch and release situations, and has range out to the NBA three point line ... His first step allows him to get into the lane, where he displays impressive body control that allows him to hit off balance shots around the rim ... His long arms and high activity level also help contribute to 7 rebounds per game ... With his length and capable lateral quickness, Brooks has the potential to be an effective defender with more focus and NBA coaching...

Weaknesses: The ball has the tendency to stick to Brooks' hands, causing teammates to stand around forcing stagnant and one and done offensive possessions ... Doesn't show the best shot selection, and throws up too many unnecessary heat checks ... Physically he lacks the athleticism and explosiveness that most scoring NBA two-guards possess ... He averaged close to 18 field goal attempts per game, so his scoring average could be inflated due to his role in Providence's offense ... He won't have the opportunity to dominate the ball in the pros the way he does in college, so adjusting his spacing and adapting to his teammates could be a challenge for him in a new role ... His body has good length but lacks great bulk/strength ... Needs to put forth more intensity and effort on the defensive end ...

Overall: On one hand, Brooks led the most competitive conference in basketball in scoring including a 43 point game against Georgetown and a 52 point game against Notre Dame. On the other hand, his team went 4-14 in conference play and he averaged more turnovers than assists... Brooks needs to improve on his complimentary skills such as spot up shooting and making the extra pass, but his overall ability to score will be an attractive asset for many teams looking for some extra fire power.

From DraftExpress

Brooks also has a strong ability to attack the basket out of isolation situations, though it clearly takes a backseat to his perimeter jumper in his approach to the game. Having a very sure-handed dribble with very long strides, Brooks is dangerous taking his man to the basket in spite of his lack of a great first step.

He isn't the greatest finisher at the basket, as he could improve both his strength and his aggressiveness going strong to the rim, but he got to the line at a strong rate as a senior, posting a 0.38 FTA/FGA ratio, something he vastly improved from his junior season. He also has a nice floater in his arsenal, taking full advantage of his terrific 7'1 wingspan to easily get it off at any time in the lane. With continued work, his floaters and runners have the potential to be a very solid weapon in the NBA.

[Admin]

I am not a Brooks fan and have no interest in this deal. Brooks put up a 12.9 PER last season (which is not good) and is down to 11 minutes per game this year.

A late first from NJ isn't very attractive.

Then add in taking on an overpriced, zero upside vet in Wallace who was signed to a terrible JJ-lite contract last season and this would be a huge windfall for NJ if we pulled the trigger.

Just say "no."

So you're basing your judgement off of him from his rookie season on a bad team? Of course his minutes are down, they have a 6 time All-Star SG there now who's starting ahead of him and taking up the vast majority of the minutes at SG. Didn't think you were a PER guy but since you mentioned his minutes are down this year and you mentioned his PER last year, why not mention that his PER has gone up this year to 14.2? His shooting %'s have also gone up across the board as well this year. I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of Kobe or anything, but he's a 2nd year player who with time WILL prove to be a good NBA player.

[coachx]

I actually do like Brooks.....wish we got him in the JJ trade.......I just don't seem as the slasher off the bounce that Williams are JR Smith are. I could be wrong on that.

At Providence he may have been a slasher first and jump shooter second. I saw him settle for perimeter jumpers much more as an NBA vs. slashing to the rim. As his scouting report suggested that Dolfan linked.....his 1st step is not that great.

[Admin]

I actually do like Brooks.....wish we got him in the JJ trade.......I just don't seem as the slasher off the bounce that Williams are JR Smith are. I could be wrong on that.

At Providence he may have been a slasher first and jump shooter second. I saw him settle for perimeter jumpers much more as an NBA vs. slashing to the rim. As his scouting report suggested that Dolfan linked.....his 1st step is not that great.

Yeah but we're talking about a guy with less than 50 starts in the NBA who's still a kid trying to develop his game but not getting nearly enough playing time. He may not be as explosive as Lou or JR are but he's in that type of mold where his game is best suited as a 6th man scoring option than as a starting SG due to his lack of size but that would still make him a very valuable player that I'd love to have right now to replace Lou. If we could make a minor trade and give up one of the expiring contracts to get him I'd be all for that, but I doubt NJ would.

[Watchman]

I'd want Evans as a throw in too, unless his contract is not a good one.

[drzachary]

PER is useless, and the only reason it's ever mentioned in polite company is that it was created by a bald, Hawks-ridiculing ESPN hack. It measures nothing except validating perception of players that put up a lot of stats, emphasizing (ironically) inefficient play. I like to call it "PPER" (the first P is for 'perceived.')

There are way better single-number metrics out there that actually work! http://wagesofwins.com and win shares on basketball-reference.com, for example, tell a story that is at least somewhat empirically verifiable.

/endrant

So you're basing your judgement off of him from his rookie season on a bad team? Of course his minutes are down, they have a 6 time All-Star SG there now who's starting ahead of him and taking up the vast majority of the minutes at SG. Didn't think you were a PER guy but since you mentioned his minutes are down this year and you mentioned his PER last year, why not mention that his PER has gone up this year to 14.2? His shooting %'s have also gone up across the board as well this year. I'm not saying he's the 2nd coming of Kobe or anything, but he's a 2nd year player who with time WILL prove to be a good NBA player.

[Admin]

PER is useless, and the only reason it's ever mentioned in polite company is that it was created by a bald, Hawks-ridiculing ESPN hack. It measures nothing except validating perception of players that put up a lot of stats, emphasizing (ironically) inefficient play. I like to call it "PPER" (the first P is for 'perceived.')

There are way better single-number metrics out there that actually work! http://wagesofwins.com and win shares on basketball-reference.com, for example, tell a story that is at least somewhat empirically verifiable.

/endrant

I didn't bring up PER, that was AHF and I was surprised by it. You won't see me coming out and using that on my own as a metric to say player X is better than player Y. By the same token, I don't buy into the WinShares thing. It may be a great and accurate statistic and maybe the reason I don't buy into it is because I don't fully understand how it's created, but I'm just not a believer in it at this point.

[frankthetank966]

In regards to the Lopez - Smith trade do you have any source? Thought that was just pure speculation. They are comparable players. Acquiring Lopez would allow Horford to move over to PF. We would have a true center. If Smith wants to be maxed out then they need to trade him. He is not worth that much money. I have been a Josh Smith advocate for years and will continue to support him. No player matches what he can do offensively-and-defensively.

[AHF]

The only reason I brought up PER is because it is a stat that rewards chuckers who are even modestly efficient scorers. You can shoot like 40% from the floor and as long as you are chucking a bunch of shots in your minutes, you have a good PER. The fact that Brooks plays at a 14 shot per 36 pace and doesn't put up a better PER is worrisome -- not because it is a great metric but because if you are scoring a lot at a decent efficiency you should be reflecting pretty well.

I am not excited about Brooks in part because the Nets have chose to marginalize him (they have minutes for him if the coaches liked him more -- i.e., if he made an effort on defense) but also because of what Atlanta has. We already have two shooting guards that I am more interested in. Lou Williams is a better and more versatile 6th man scorer than Brooks projects to be and is on a cap friendly contract. When we are talking about the next guy on the pecking order, I would much rather have someone who will spread the floor than someone shooting like Brooks and we have a rookie John Jenkins who shoots 40%+ from 3pt range compared to the 22.7% Brooks is shooting this season (he should be better than that but he looks like a Josh Smith level -- around 30% -- shooter at this point from long range).

I would like Atlanta to keep Korver and that just makes Brooks increasingly redundant from where I sit.

All hail the Brooklyn Nets everybody

If they take another one of our bad contacts/bad players in the same year they will become our own personal recycling bin. By all means, take Smoove but I want Brooks this time.

JJ was a toxic contract. Josh is a contract people will pay to get because he is an attractive asset on an expiring deal. Even if we are done with him, we need to get value for him not just get rid of him.

[Admin]

The only reason I brought up PER is because it is a stat that rewards chuckers who are even modestly efficient scorers. You can shoot like 40% from the floor and as long as you are chucking a bunch of shots in your minutes, you have a good PER. The fact that Brooks plays at a 14 shot per 36 pace and doesn't put up a better PER is worrisome -- not because it is a great metric but because if you are scoring a lot at a decent efficiency you should be reflecting pretty well.

I am not excited about Brooks in part because the Nets have chose to marginalize him (they have minutes for him if the coaches liked him more -- i.e., if he made an effort on defense) but also because of what Atlanta has. We already have two shooting guards that I am more interested in. Lou Williams is a better and more versatile 6th man scorer than Brooks projects to be and is on a cap friendly contract. When we are talking about the next guy on the pecking order, I would much rather have someone who will spread the floor than someone shooting like Brooks and we have a rookie John Jenkins who shoots 40%+ from 3pt range compared to the 22.7% Brooks is shooting this season (he should be better than that but he looks like a Josh Smith level -- around 30% -- shooter at this point from long range).

I would like Atlanta to keep Korver and that just makes Brooks increasingly redundant from where I sit.

JJ was a toxic contract. Josh is a contract people will pay to get because he is an attractive asset on an expiring deal. Even if we are done with him, we need to get value for him not just get rid of him.

I would like for Atlanta to keep Korver and for Lou to come back 100% healthy next year but neither of those things are guaranteed and having a guy like Marshon as insurance would be pretty nice. If we don't need him then he would easily be movable as players who can score are valuable. I guess we'll just have to wait to see but I'm confident that once he goes someplace where he gets consistent PT and a defined role that he will excel in it.

[hawkrule152]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1503049-denver-nuggets-must-trade-for-atlanta-hawks-josh-smith

^^^This would have to be out best trade option IMO. Your getting youth back and also a great talented shooter. Just pure speculation tho.

[Admin]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1503049-denver-nuggets-must-trade-for-atlanta-hawks-josh-smith

^^^This would have to be out best trade option IMO. Your getting youth back and also a great talented shooter. Just pure speculation tho.

I could absolutely get behind a deal like that!! Koufos would make a nice addition to Zaza for rotation at the C spot and Nilo would fill the SF void perfectly and be everything offensively that Josh wishes he could be. He's not the defensive player that Josh is, but he's not awful either. Too bad this isn't a real rumor.

Here’s how they can make that happen:

Denver Nuggets get: Josh Smith (F, Atlanta Hawks) and J.J. Redick (SG, Orlando Magic)

Atlanta Hawks get: Danilo Gallinari (F, Denver Nuggets) and Kosta Koufos (C, Denver Nuggets)

Orlando Magic get: Wilson Chandler (G/F, Denver Nuggets) and Anthony Randolph (PF, Denver Nuggets)

[drzachary]

Wins Produced (pretty close to Win Shares, but slightly different in a few ways) is pretty good for me, for one important reason: the model fits the data we have (going back a bunch of years.)

You plug players' stats into the formula, get their resulting Wins Produced values, add a teams' players WPs together and voila -- the total equals how many games the team won in real life with a pretty solid degree of accuracy, in the aggregate (95% confidence.)

It's a correlation, and a high one at that. It tells you who's been productive and who hasn't -- Josh Smith is a notable high-ish PER guy with low Wins Produced, because he's literally destructive on offense this season -- but not WHY, nor does it predict the future. It's just a good tool for assessing what's already occurred on the floor.

Then you have PER, which tells you nothing except "high number, he might be good." :)

I didn't bring up PER, that was AHF and I was surprised by it. You won't see me coming out and using that on my own as a metric to say player X is better than player Y. By the same token, I don't buy into the WinShares thing. It may be a great and accurate statistic and maybe the reason I don't buy into it is because I don't fully understand how it's created, but I'm just not a believer in it at this point.

[AHF]

I would like for Atlanta to keep Korver and for Lou to come back 100% healthy next year but neither of those things are guaranteed and having a guy like Marshon as insurance would be pretty nice. If we don't need him then he would easily be movable as players who can score are valuable. I guess we'll just have to wait to see but I'm confident that once he goes someplace where he gets consistent PT and a defined role that he will excel in it.

I am more ambitious with my wants for Josh.

For me, Brooks is a reserve shooting guard. Nothing more or less. That has value.

We already have 2 reserve shooting guards on this team. One may be injured for a chunk of next season which means Brooks would strengthen us as far as a fill-in role, but if he is our long-term starter then we are in trouble and if he isn't going to be a starter then he is battling for 2nd - 4th place on the SG depth chart with Lou and Jenkins (who both should be in the 2-4 range on a depth chart with Brooks).

I would be pursuing players with starter potential, who we could use as starters and/or picks for Josh. I don't think Brooks fits any of those criteria. This is all assuming Korver isn't kept.

Then if we are able to retain Korver, the same analysis applies only it is exacerbated.

What could change my mind is learning that Brooks is a much better defender than I currently think he is because we don't have that dimension but as a perimeter scorer who scores as efficiently as Jenkins but doesn't spread the floor like Jenkins....that isn't doing much for me.

[Dragitoff]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1503049-denver-nuggets-must-trade-for-atlanta-hawks-josh-smith

^^^This would have to be out best trade option IMO. Your getting youth back and also a great talented shooter. Just pure speculation tho.

Too bad that's bleacher report and not a real rumor! I would like that deal for us! Think of how well we could stretch the floor with that lineup.

Teague/Harris/Pargo

Korver/Jenkins

Galinari/Stevenson/Tolliver

Horford/Johnson/Scott

Koufos/Pachulia/Petro

I think it would be weaker defensively than what we've got now, but man we could shoot the lights out the gym with that crew!

Speaking of defense....Denver would be sick defensively but would struggle shooting from the outside (even with JJ)

Lawson

AI

Smith

Faried

McGee

Edited January 29, 2013 by Dragitoff

[Guest]

All hail the Brooklyn Nets everybody

If they take another one of our bad contacts/bad players in the same year they will become our own personal recycling bin. By all means, take Smoove but I want Brooks this time.

If Ferry pulls that off he would be GM of the year this year and also next year...

[Admin]

I am more ambitious with my wants for Josh.

For me, Brooks is a reserve shooting guard. Nothing more or less. That has value.

We already have 2 reserve shooting guards on this team. One may be injured for a chunk of next season which means Brooks would strengthen us as far as a fill-in role, but if he is our long-term starter then we are in trouble and if he isn't going to be a starter then he is battling for 2nd - 4th place on the SG depth chart with Lou and Jenkins (who both should be in the 2-4 range on a depth chart with Brooks).

I would be pursuing players with starter potential, who we could use as starters and/or picks for Josh. I don't think Brooks fits any of those criteria. This is all assuming Korver isn't kept.

Then if we are able to retain Korver, the same analysis applies only it is exacerbated.

What could change my mind is learning that Brooks is a much better defender than I currently think he is because we don't have that dimension but as a perimeter scorer who scores as efficiently as Jenkins but doesn't spread the floor like Jenkins....that isn't doing much for me.

I would love to retain Korver, but he doesn't really impact the SG spot when we have a full group of guys capable of playing SG. I also wouldn't be expecting Brooks to ever be the starting SG for us and probably not even be a guy we'd keep long term once we find out that Jenkins is capable of playing big minutes and Lou comes back healthy. Then he would still be an easy guy to move for another young player or pick.

I should also point out that this is not in any way my preferred scenario for moving Josh, but if it came down to losing Josh for nothing or moving him for Wallace and Brooks plus a 1st somewhere down the line then I'd rather get something for him. Wallace would be tradable if we decided not to keep him, or he'd fit in pretty well at the SF spot the next 2 years with Korver and him splitting minutes and with Wallace playing the PF spot some when we go small.

[hawkrule152]

Thats why it says "just pure speculation tho"

Too bad that's bleacher report and not a real rumor!

[EazyRoc]

No interest in anything the Nets have. I'd rather just have the cap space. You know what's going to be funny ? Joshs reaction once he hits the open market asking for a max deal and no one offers more than $15 mil a year, if that. This new CBA is what prevents players like him, Joe, and Rudy from getting big contracts in the future.