Changing one word and it applies here.

[Gray Mule]

In the scriptures we read in Matthew 24:6:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars:

See that ye be not troubled:

For all these things must come to pass,

But the end is not yet.

Not trying to change the scriptures in any way, but read this verse and instead

of wars, substitute trades.

Eerie, isn't it! Doesn't this fit all us Hawk fans?

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

In the scriptures we read in Matthew 24:6:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars:

See that ye be not troubled:

For all these things must come to pass,

But the end is not yet.

Not trying to change the scriptures in any way, but read this verse and instead

of wars, substitute trades.

Eerie, isn't it! Doesn't this fit all us Hawk fans?

I picked up on which word you were referencing to before I go through the first line. It's just the time of year when all of the trade Josh Smith threads and rumors pop up. And like the scripture states, for all these things must come to pass and will without anyone being traded.

[Diesel]

In the scriptures we read in Matthew 24:6:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars:

See that ye be not troubled:

For all these things must come to pass,

But the end is not yet.

Not trying to change the scriptures in any way, but read this verse and instead

of wars, substitute trades.

Eerie, isn't it! Doesn't this fit all us Hawk fans?

SO does that mean that when we finally become knowlegable...(Knowledge will increase) that the end will come. I hate for us to finally get it and then it's over?

[EAambassador]

Same thing every year with the Josh trade talk...just like previous years he will be a Hawk until the end of the season for sure.

[Atlantaholic]

Nobody wants Josh

[PSSSHHHRRR87]

Nobody wants Josh

Speak for yourself...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[coachx]

In the scriptures we read in Matthew 24:6: And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars:See that ye be not troubled:For all these things must come to pass,But the end is not yet. Not trying to change the scriptures in any way, but read this verse and insteadof wars, substitute trades. Eerie, isn't it! Doesn't this fit all us Hawk fans?

Problem is I'm troubled because the trade is not happening.........not because I fear it will happen.

[taz]

The Torah says josh smith should be traded and to enjoy the all star weekend

[thecampster]

In the scriptures we read in Matthew 24:6:

And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars:

See that ye be not troubled:

For all these things must come to pass,

But the end is not yet.

Not trying to change the scriptures in any way, but read this verse and instead

of wars, substitute trades.

Eerie, isn't it! Doesn't this fit all us Hawk fans?

Mule,

I attempted to address this Josh Smith trade lunacy in another post without calling it lunacy but your post helps to put it in another light. Fans here lost their mind when talking about it, rumor mongering, believing right off the bat it was a true rumor (again). But in my other post, I displayed a GM point of view on trading Smith. Trading Josh isn't just a 1 and done move but a move that will have impact for years to come. Here are just a few ways.

1. Trading away a player of Smith's caliber sends a message to every other player in the league about team loyalty. You have to be very clear in your motivation for trading Smith. The 1 game suspension of Smith (IMO) was a P.R. nightmare inside NBA player circles. Although many fans loved it and commentators applauded without knowing why or how it happened. Other NBA players started gossiping amongst themselves what happened. You can bet Josh told Dwight, Lou got an earful and the rumor mill moved from there. Drew's reputation took a hit...a big hit and right before we're trying to sign elite talent this summer.

2. The rumored players say a great deal about Atlanta. Although Gortat is a shot blocker and rebounds at a better than average rate, he is not respected around the league as a long term solution. For players in win now mode, trading Josh for Gortat (+) is a sign you are not serious about winning now.

3. Trading for picks is worse than above. It signals the 5 years plan and for players in their prime, that is too long.

4. Trading Josh away for players on a contract already changes your options in the off season. For example, teams wanting to sign and trade for Josh in the off-season would be willing to move a better player on the last year of his contract in an attempt to land Smith and afford him. His potential suitors grows when you include sign and trade candidates and Atlanta's returns grow as well.

5. Trading Josh for picks is a crap shoot. Not only are locked into those player's salaries (think Marvin here) but perhaps without return. The salary you spend on the picks (5-7 million year 1 for 4 picks next year - ours and trades), but those contracts are first round selections which are guaranteed money. In year 3 those contracts eat up 10 million of the cap and my not be players worth a roster spot. You have to be sure of a player to invest a pick. Those odds go down with 3-4 pics.

6. Trading Josh now includes a trade kicker. Trading Josh after Dec next year has no kicker. There is no rush to trade Josh at 13.2 million when effectively his salary is 14.8 million in trade....very similar to next year's salary.

7. If you are building a team, trading Josh means you need a shot blocker now at 5 and a slasher at 3. You are spoiled right now in that Josh is filling both of those rolls. Al moving to the 4 is an offensive upgrade over Josh in every category except slashing (which admittedly is not important at the 4). But it means you now need a rebounding shot blocker at center and need to be more dynamic at the wing. You also lose flexibility guarding on the perimeter, (not our team strong suit to start with). What this means is you are locked into drafting for need or greed. You are drafting to fill holes, not for the best talent.

8. You now have to pay Teague and Korver next year if you want to maintain fan identity.

9. Ivan Johnson now has you by the Huevos.

10. Zaza Pachulia now becomes even more important because if you lose Gortat (or similar for the season) your season is lost.

I could go on but looking at it like a GM (God view - total responsibility), moving Josh is much riskier than fans are realizing.

[AHawks89]

Thecampster, great post.

[Diesel]

[thecampster]

What does not trading Smith say to the league. They see us in a position where we are repeatedly not doing anything in the playoffs and know that Smith is a big reason why. Keeping Smith simply means that we value the fact that he's from Atlanta More than we value winning. I think 9 years is plenty loyal.

Believe it or not, we're not in a win now mode. We don't have an allstar. We don't have a top calibre playoff team that is aging. We are in a rebuild year. Notice all the ending contracts. Notice that we have more than 1 draft pick? Win now has passed. Welcome to the transition year.

This is exactly why Ferry had the sit down. He sat down to see what Josh wanted and what Josh was agreeable to.

We can't live believing that we would do something as stupid as pick Marvin again. IF so. Fire Ferry. IF you're the type to stay on a losing road because you're afriad of what's ahead... not much can be said to help you.

Josh is unrestricted n the offseason???

We don't have the defensive horses to make josh effective anyway. Moroever, Josh kills us offensively.

Moving Josh is what it is. It's not risky. It is what has to be done. Sorry But Josh is a 16/8 tweener who loves to shoot too much from outside. He plays good help defense but his one on one defense needs work. He also may be a lockerroom cancer. Keeping him suggests that we don't care about moving farther especially if he demands a max contract. There are possibilities for this team without Smith. The thing is either we trust Ferry or we don't . One thing for certain, we can't stay as is.

1. It doesn't matter what it says to the league. It matters what it says to the players we are trying to sign with all our cap space the next few years. I give an ant's antenna what the assistant GM of Sacramento thinks.

2. Those draft picks are trade fodder for sign and trade type of scenarios or filler players. Notice they are not lottery picks.

3. Yes, draft picks are a crap shoot. From injuries to systems to Royce White (do I need say more). It isn't stupid. Marvin would have been good value at 15. Not at 2. It was a bad value pick, nothing more. You are too emotional about this. It's just business.

4. Yes Josh is unrestricted but only teams under the cap are not the only one's he can play for. We can move him to a mid-tier/contending team in a sign and trade in the off season. A move preferable to Josh than to go to a rebuilding situation (teams with cap space). You've heard him. He just wants to win. That means selling out to go to L.A. Boston. Chicago, etc.

[Gray Mule]

We have a love / hate relationship, as fans, with our J Smoove. Some love

him and some hate him and some of us, both.

We would love to see him gone. We hate the way this man child plays. He's

so talented, we love so much the things he brings to the highlight factory.

Our opponents love it when he's the PG and takes those long, uncontested

shots. We moan and then cheer when one does drop in. He takes and makes

the three point shot - - Yea!- - but he misses a lot of them too.

He (and we) want him to be an all star. We (and he) feel terrible when he gets

no opportunity to show off his many talents in an all star game. His thunder

dunks are a thing to behold and bring the fans to their feet with a great cheer.

He throws some bullet passes for easy scores for others and gets an assist.

He's just as likely to throw the ball away, guessing wrong about where a player

is headed. He can't make those dunks when he's outside, taking those long

shots that he so often misses.

Remember the old song. I believe Perry Como sang, "I did it my way." That's

the way J Smoove plays basketball. His way. His way at practice earned him

a suspention for one game. Some believe that this was cheered by the fans

but that the Hawks were held up to ridecule for the action. Why? He earned

it and deserved it. Give him what he deserves, good or bad.

This didn't do anything for his trade value. His contract already has that 10%

kicker, designed to prevent trading. He states that he expects the maximum

contract allowable after this season, further lessning his true value as a trade

possibility. He loves to stay down at the end of the court and cry to the ref

about not getting the foul call, which he makes 50% of the shots (Ugh!) while

the other four have to play 4 on 5 defense.

Yet, with all his faults, he is such a great athlete and he does so many wonderful

things on the court. He's ours. We want to see him do all those wonderful

things for us! Then, when he does all those stupid things, we wish he was

doing them for someone else.

Good and bad. Love and hate. All rolled into one. We can't get by the second

round of the playoffs with him. The life of a great athlete is short. How much

longer can he go with what he's got? Is he smart enough to change as he ages

and loses half a step? Or, does the mind set, "I did it my way" prevail over all?

If he's not traded, will we bow to his demands and give him the next JJ contract

from the Hawks? Failing to get that, will he take his self elsewhere? Hawks

could lose him for nothing at season's end. Or, could we do a sign and trade?

Are we being held hostage by this multi talented player? We wring our hands

and ask ourself, "What to do?" And, we just know, whatever we do will be wrong.

If you want to know what HawkSquawk posters think, just look at all the different

views posted here over the past weeks (and years).................

[macdaddy]

Ferry isn't stupid. He is sitting and waiting for someone to REALLY want Josh. If not then we'll wait until the offseason. If no one really wants him then we can sign him to a reasonable deal. I see no way we are trading Josh for some average players and draft picks.

The suspension was Ferry's call not LD's and Josh's issue with it was that it was in the media. But how are you going to suspend a guy and it not be in the media. My issue was LD saying how much he loved Josh and was going to give him a big hug when he gets back. Is he treating him like a toddler because he thinks he needs too? He should have just said 'Josh crossed a line, we dealt with it, it's done'.

In general i'm with coach. Dumping him for average players and draft picks just puts us on a road of mediocrity for several years. Some say we are already there but we aren't. We are a good team who can't beat the great teams in the league. That's different then looking up at the 8th seed in the east.

[Watchman]

Mule,

I attempted to address this Josh Smith trade lunacy in another post without calling it lunacy but your post helps to put it in another light. Fans here lost their mind when talking about it, rumor mongering, believing right off the bat it was a true rumor (again). But in my other post, I displayed a GM point of view on trading Smith. Trading Josh isn't just a 1 and done move but a move that will have impact for years to come. Here are just a few ways.

1. Trading away a player of Smith's caliber sends a message to every other player in the league about team loyalty. You have to be very clear in your motivation for trading Smith. The 1 game suspension of Smith (IMO) was a P.R. nightmare inside NBA player circles. Although many fans loved it and commentators applauded without knowing why or how it happened. Other NBA players started gossiping amongst themselves what happened. You can bet Josh told Dwight, Lou got an earful and the rumor mill moved from there. Drew's reputation took a hit...a big hit and right before we're trying to sign elite talent this summer.

2. The rumored players say a great deal about Atlanta. Although Gortat is a shot blocker and rebounds at a better than average rate, he is not respected around the league as a long term solution. For players in win now mode, trading Josh for Gortat (+) is a sign you are not serious about winning now.

3. Trading for picks is worse than above. It signals the 5 years plan and for players in their prime, that is too long.

4. Trading Josh away for players on a contract already changes your options in the off season. For example, teams wanting to sign and trade for Josh in the off-season would be willing to move a better player on the last year of his contract in an attempt to land Smith and afford him. His potential suitors grows when you include sign and trade candidates and Atlanta's returns grow as well.

5. Trading Josh for picks is a crap shoot. Not only are locked into those player's salaries (think Marvin here) but perhaps without return. The salary you spend on the picks (5-7 million year 1 for 4 picks next year - ours and trades), but those contracts are first round selections which are guaranteed money. In year 3 those contracts eat up 10 million of the cap and my not be players worth a roster spot. You have to be sure of a player to invest a pick. Those odds go down with 3-4 pics.

6. Trading Josh now includes a trade kicker. Trading Josh after Dec next year has no kicker. There is no rush to trade Josh at 13.2 million when effectively his salary is 14.8 million in trade....very similar to next year's salary.

7. If you are building a team, trading Josh means you need a shot blocker now at 5 and a slasher at 3. You are spoiled right now in that Josh is filling both of those rolls. Al moving to the 4 is an offensive upgrade over Josh in every category except slashing (which admittedly is not important at the 4). But it means you now need a rebounding shot blocker at center and need to be more dynamic at the wing. You also lose flexibility guarding on the perimeter, (not our team strong suit to start with). What this means is you are locked into drafting for need or greed. You are drafting to fill holes, not for the best talent.

8. You now have to pay Teague and Korver next year if you want to maintain fan identity.

9. Ivan Johnson now has you by the Huevos.

10. Zaza Pachulia now becomes even more important because if you lose Gortat (or similar for the season) your season is lost.

I could go on but looking at it like a GM (God view - total responsibility), moving Josh is much riskier than fans are realizing.

Danged if ya do, danged if ya don't. I guess we could let him walk next offseason, but we might have to use cap space to get a good replacement. It also sends a message to other players that you're not serious about winning a championship if you keep Josh, especially if you give him a max contract.

[*]"Loyalty" - Where is Josh's loyalty? Wants to be traded. Can't get along with coaches or management. Does the things he wants to do, not the things that would help the team the most.

[*]"Gortat is not respected around the league as a long term solution." - You think Smith is? I listen to games on XM on the way home from work at night, and the broadcast team is the home team's broadcasters. Without exception they all talk about his physical ability. They also talk about his bad shot selection, bringing the ball upcourt, etc. We're not the only ones who notice it. If broadcasters notice it, you can bet GMs and coaches notice it. Steve Holman has to control himself whenever Josh does something stupid.

[*]Trading for draft picks does not necessarily mean you're on the five year plan. I think if you do it right, and for the right personnel, it shows your insight.

[*]If he is traded for players that make the team better, why be worried about losing $13 - $18 million of cap space. Dwight's not coming here. CP3 isn't coming here.

[*]Like you say, it's a crap shoot. Could be awesome, could be a total letdown.

[*]Trade kicker - some things are worth it, if it gets the team to the next level.

[*]There is more to defense than shot blocking and steals. Drafting for "best talent" instead of need got us into the situation we're in now. Just think if we had drafted CP3 or Deron Williams instead of Marvin. We needed a point guard, not yet another tweener forward. Our only "slasher" is Lou W.

[*]Pay Korver and Teague market value. No more, no less. If they want too much, let them walk.

[*]Ivan isn't good enough to have anyone by the "huevos."

[*]Having a good backup center is always important and necessary. I hope we are going to re-sign Zaza.