Josh Smith haters don't want a championship...

[Watchman]

Problem is we have to look to the future. Not an nba champion AND need pieces. Will get NOtHING when josh walks

Would rather have him walk and get nothing than to have to overpay for his services, or trade him for someone else's garbage or take on more cap killing salaries.

[Sothron]

I'd rather let Josh walk for nothing than give him another contract. This guy will never "get it" and at this point Ferry I am praying realizes it and will either trade him or wish him the best when some other sucker gives him a deal.

[effjee14]

Can anyone show an instance where a team that traded its best player, significantly changed its fortunes for the better. It just doesn't happen often, if at all. I'm willing to let him walk if a deal can't be reached this summer. At least we will have the cap space to start rebuilding. We're not a hot market for highly performing players, that means we need to keep the ones we have. If josh was 30, I wouldn't give him 15 mill a year, but at 27, in the middle of his prime, 15 mill a year is reasonable. Josh Smith haters keep saying you can't win a championship with josh, but then want to trade him for pieces u can't even get to the playoffs with. I don't like constant losing, y'all guys can keep that over there. I say stay put, build, and be ready to make a move in 2 1/2 years. I at least want make a run at a championship before we HAVE to rebuild.

[effjee14]

I'm having a pretty stressful day, so I keep coming back to Hawksquawk just to see the title of this topic. I immediately start cackling and feel a lot better. Thanks, OP!

I should put the whole title in the title. The way its seen now suggest that I believe we only need josh smith, in order to win a championship. The title is really supposed to be "josh smith hater don't want a championship...they just want to trade him". That's all I'm really saying

[supermariowest]

Can anyone show an instance where a team that traded its best player, significantly changed its fortunes for the better. It just doesn't happen often, if at all. I'm willing to let him walk if a deal can't be reached this summer. At least we will have the cap space to start rebuilding. We're not a hot market for highly performing players, that means we need to keep the ones we have. If josh was 30, I wouldn't give him 15 mill a year, but at 27, in the middle of his prime, 15 mill a year is reasonable. Josh Smith haters keep saying you can't win a championship with josh, but then want to trade him for pieces u can't even get to the playoffs with. I don't like constant losing, y'all guys can keep that over there. I say stay put, build, and be ready to make a move in 2 1/2 years. I at least want make a run at a championship before we HAVE to rebuild.

The past four years = making a run at a championship. If we don't trade Josh, consider three possible scenarios:1. Josh demands a max contract, pricing himself out of Atlanta. (Will he get it somewhere else? That's another conversation.)2. Josh decides he doesn't want to play in Atlanta and signs elsewhere.3. Josh softens his stance on the max contract and signs a reasonable contract with the Hawks.I think the general feeling is that the third option represents the most unlikely scenario. In other words, it doesn't really look like Josh will be on the team next season. Because of this, trading Josh for some combination of young players, draft picks, and miscellaneous "pieces u can't even get to the playoffs with" would be a very reasonable thing to do. Nobody here is arguing on behalf of constant losing.

[drzachary]

Can anyone show an instance where a team that traded its best player, significantly changed its fortunes for the better.

I don't think there are any Horford trade rumors.

[drzachary]

I should put the whole title in the title. The way its seen now suggest that I believe we only need josh smith, in order to win a championship. The title is really supposed to be "josh smith hater don't want a championship...they just want to trade him". That's all I'm really saying

To be truthful, the title would have to be "Josh Smith detractors think a championship is more likely if he's traded." Your title is just a joke.

[effjee14]

The past four years = making a run at a championship. If we don't trade Josh, consider three possible scenarios:1. Josh demands a max contract, pricing himself out of Atlanta. (Will he get it somewhere else? That's another conversation.)2. Josh decides he doesn't want to play in Atlanta and signs elsewhere.3. Josh softens his stance on the max contract and signs a reasonable contract with the Hawks.I think the general feeling is that the third option represents the most unlikely scenario. In other words, it doesn't really look like Josh will be on the team next season. Because of this, trading Josh for some combination of young players, draft picks, and miscellaneous "pieces u can't even get to the playoffs with" would be a very reasonable thing to do. Nobody here is arguing on behalf of constant losing.

How can we actually know which of these options is more/least likely. Josh has not stated that he wants out, he hasn't said he must have a max deal, and he hasn't said he wouldn't leave atl for any amount of money. No one knows at this point, probably not even josh. The market will dictate how much money he gets this summer. I'm thinking no one throws a full max deal at smith.

[effjee14]

To be truthful, the title would have to be "Josh Smith detractors think a championship is more likely if he's traded." Your title is just a joke.

Not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying josh smith haters care less about winning a championship than they do about trading josh smith. They "SAY` they want a championship caliber team, but want to trade the teams best player for pennies on the dollar. Just doesn't make "I want to compete for a championship" sense

[effjee14]

I don't think there are any Horford trade rumors.

I love horford as well, but he's not better than josh. Josh actually makes horford better, because he can play off of josh.

[TheFuzz]

Probably the worst thread I've ever read on any forum on any subject. Totally out of touch with reality.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=18780550

Read the first post there and you'll change your mind.

On topic, I don't think anyone wants to trade Josh for garbage (well, maybe a couple of posters). But trading him for some solid pieces could actually help him reach his potential AND help us win a championship within the next decade (gosh, that's depressing).

[effjee14]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=18780550 Read the first post there and you'll change your mind. On topic, I don't think anyone wants to trade Josh for garbage (well, maybe a couple of posters). But trading him for some solid pieces could actually help him reach his potential AND help us win a championship within the next decade (gosh, that's depressing).

That thread just had me crying. Too funny. Honestly, I think moving smith for lesser players is a huge mistake. And I'm usually right when it comes basketball. I knew trading joe wouldn't hurt the hawks. He was the 3rd best player on the team, and he held back the development of teague horford, and would've kept jenkins from developing as well.

[supermariowest]

How can we actually know which of these options is more/least likely. Josh has not stated that he wants out, he hasn't said he must have a max deal, and he hasn't said he wouldn't leave atl for any amount of money. No one knows at this point, probably not even josh. The market will dictate how much money he gets this summer. I'm thinking no one throws a full max deal at smith.

He also hasn't stated that he wants to stay, he did say that he thinks he deserves a max contract, and as a restricted free agent, Josh signed an offer sheet with the Memphis Grizzlies. Further, there was a thread bouncing around a few days ago stating that Josh was offered a maximum extension but turned this offer down. And (somewhat less meaningful) all of the talking heads around the NBA think he is gone next year. So, there is plenty of evidence pointing to the third option (Josh softening his stance on the max contract and signing a reasonable contract with the Hawks) being the most unlikely. Am I saying that it won't happen? No, absolutely not.One last point: Assuming we don't trade Josh, it stands to reason that he will have just as many teams pursuing him in free agency as he does now, meaning there is a very good chance that at least one team will offer a better contract than whatever the Hawks might offer. Letting the market dictate our future makes little sense when we can trade Josh for young players and/or draft picks and then use the $60+ million it would take to sign Josh to sign players who are equally productive.

[coachx]

He also hasn't stated that he wants to stay, he did say that he thinks he deserves a max contract, and as a restricted free agent, Josh signed an offer sheet with the Memphis Grizzlies. Further, there was a thread bouncing around a few days ago stating that Josh was offered a maximum extension but turned this offer down. And (somewhat less meaningful) all of the talking heads around the NBA think he is gone next year. So, there is plenty of evidence pointing to the third option (Josh softening his stance on the max contract and signing a reasonable contract with the Hawks) being the most unlikely. Am I saying that it won't happen? No, absolutely not.One last point: Assuming we don't trade Josh, it stands to reason that he will have just as many teams pursuing him in free agency as he does now, meaning there is a very good chance that at least one team will offer a better contract than whatever the Hawks might offer. Letting the market dictate our future makes little sense when we can trade Josh for young players and/or draft picks and then use the $60+ million it would take to sign Josh to sign players who are equally productive.

He doesn't like to hear logic.

[effjee14]

For those who didn't read my initial post... I'm not saying josh alone will bring us a championship caliber team. I'm saying josh is a the type of player that can help buid a championship team. His skill set as a whole, is only outdone by lebron. Is he a top 10 player? No! But he is a top 30 player. So is horford. And if teague can continue his assention, he'll be a top 30 player as well. I'm betting that with enough good, but great players, the hawks can make a run at it. If lou doesn't go down, we're probably 2nd or 3rd in the east this year. And if ferry is truely as good of gm as everyone makes him out to be, he will be able use his expiring contract and/or cap space to keep his top 30 players, keep his, contributing role players i.e. korver, ivan, jenkins, turn his expirings into either a solid young player, or let them come off the books and try it again next year. I'm looking to the future, but my future envisions a TEAM capable of winning it all. I just don't see how trading josh smith accomplishes that. Here's hoping ferry is, who y'all say he is

[effjee14]

He doesn't like to hear logic.

[Wretch]

This board has loved and supported Josh Smith since the day we lucked up and drafted him. Yeah, we've criticized him (as any normal fan would do of their team), but for the most part, Josh Smith has always been that one consensus GOOD thing around here. To call everyone a bunch of "haters" is...just some bullshit. Just a family-sized package of pure nonsense.

When he went away from what made him so invaluable to us and started trying to shoot the ball, he became a liability. In that role, he is not comparable to LeBron or any other franchise player in the league. Everything that LeBron can do, Josh fails at... Shooting, dribbling, penetration...Josh can't shoot, he is worthless facing up off the dribble outside the paint, and has a very limited repertoire around the basket.

Josh can jump and he can murder anything that is tossed to him around the rim, but he has to be down there to be effective. But he wastes a good chunk of his time spotting up for jumpers - some of those given to him and some contested that miss horribly. Moreover, being a heavily assisted player means others are making HIM better, not vice versa. And especially not with the amount of long range shots he takes...

There are some very good teams in our way to the ECF's and we're not going to beat them when our "best" player can't shoot, can't dribble, and turns the ball over on worthless, brainless plays at critical times in the game. Moreover, playing at his absolute best, with the team playing at their best...we're still not going to the ECF's. We weren't before Lou went down and we're certainly not now.

We need a better team and we need a cornerstone. We need a franchise talent and we're not going to get one hovering around the middle of the pack. Changes are in order and they've been in order for years. Keeping this core together will ensure us three things...

A pick in the mid to late 1st round, losses in the 2nd round of the playoffs, and shrinking salary cap space. Winning at that level keeps us out of the sweet spot of the draft and keeps franchise talent away. Losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs makes franchise free agents look the other way. Spending our cap space prevents us from signing the franchise talents.

If you want a contender in ATL any time soon, then you hold none of these players sacred - least of all the Josh Smith of the past 3 or so seasons.

[TheFuzz]

For those who didn't read my initial post... I'm not saying josh alone will bring us a championship caliber team. I'm saying josh is a the type of player that can help buid a championship team. His skill set as a whole, is only outdone by lebron. Is he a top 10 player? No! But he is a top 30 player. So is horford. And if teague can continue his assention, he'll be a top 30 player as well. I'm betting that with enough good, but great players, the hawks can make a run at it. If lou doesn't go down, we're probably 2nd or 3rd in the east this year. And if ferry is truely as good of gm as everyone makes him out to be, he will be able use his expiring contract and/or cap space to keep his top 30 players, keep his, contributing role players i.e. korver, ivan, jenkins, turn his expirings into either a solid young player, or let them come off the books and try it again next year. I'm looking to the future, but my future envisions a TEAM capable of winning it all. I just don't see how trading josh smith accomplishes that. Here's hoping ferry is, who y'all say he is

While I agree that Josh can be a piece on a contender (for whatever reason, the thought of a Josh/Horford/Bosh frontline really rustles my jimmies), it's looking like someone is going to offer him a contract he just isn't worth, and I really don't think we can manage that right now.