Josh and his defense.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

At the game tonight I notice how bad our defense is. I hope Dahntay Jones can help us.

I remember there was this thread about Josh Smith is the Best Perimeter Defender in the NBA (ESPN). He is ours for sure!

DeMarcus Cousins was killing Al to start the 3rd. In 4mins he scored 9pts. My lady (who is a big AL fan) gave herself a facepalm. She was like please take Al off him. lol Well, finally LD called for Josh to guard him and Josh locked him down. He slowed LBJ down too.

I don't get it because it looks like Al can gaurd PG/SG on the perimeter pretty well. Cousins was talking mad crap to Al. Al did go right back at him on offense and did well but he just couldn't stop Cousins.

Also Isaiah Thomas was talking mad crap to Al and Teague. Al hit this shot over Isaiah and gave this loud retarded laugh/looked at Thomas that was funny as hell. Al would not back down from them. It was a lot of pushing after baskets

Cousins went hard at Zaza too but he never did talk trash to Josh.

This game was very fun to watch up close.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Brotha2ThaNite

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Wow, I just read the recap. I guess I'm not the only one to notice how well Josh did on defense.

ATLANTA -- When Josh Smith took the challenge of defending
DeMarcus Cousins, the Atlanta Hawks
finally took control against the Sacramento
Kings.

Smith, in Atlanta after being discussed in talks leading up to Thursday's
trade deadline, came through with his defense one day later.

Al Horford led Atlanta's balanced scoring
with 24 points, and the Hawks overcame a slow start to beat Sacramento 122-108
on Friday night.

Jeff Teague had 20 points and 12 assists,
Smith added 18 points and DeShawn Stevenson had 17 for Atlanta, which
had six players in double figures.

Smith also had six rebounds and four assists, but coach Larry Drew talked the
most about the decision made by the 6-foot-9 power forward to defend the 6-11,
270-pound Cousins, the Kings' high-scoring center.

"Josh signaled he did not want any help down there," Drew said.

"Josh did a phenomenal job on him and that's what Josh has been since he's
been here. Josh is the type of guy, he will take the challenge against a guy
like that."

Teague said Smith "can guard anybody, one through five, and that's what makes
him so special."

Smith said Thursday he didn't sleep well Wednesday night as the trade
deadline neared. He said he "slept too good, actually" on Thursday night and had
the energy to hold Cousins, who had 26 points and 13 rebounds, to only four
points in the final quarter.

"I just wanted to show him different looks," Smith said. "Whenever you show a
guy different looks, it kind of wears him down. I just wanted to be able to use
my quickness on him."

Smith will be an unrestricted free agent after the season.

"I'm glad I'm here," Smith said. "We've got to think about moving forward and
keep pushing for better playoff position."

Edited February 23, 2013 by Brotha2ThaNite

[thecampster]

@b2n

There is a real difference between fans who watch games from a Hero perspective (guys who played a lot of 21) and fans who played sports seriously in high school / college (guys who played more 5 on 5).

Good high school programs are grounded in defense / rebounding and floor spacing. When I watch our Hawks and you hear me criticize our players, the number one thing you'll hear me complain about is poor defense. Because I'm a bigger fan of basketball as a whole then basketball dunking and 1on 1 play, I'll railroad a guy quickly for being a lazy defender than for missing easy shots at the rim. The tell tale sign for me is when someone is a great 1 on 1 scorer. Their defense will usually be suspect.

This was my problem with JJ. JJ preferred switching off screens than fighting through them. He preferred funneling his man than staying in front. It why I criticized his overall play. Everything he did emphasized the individual, from holding the ball too long to clearing out. It's cool to watch him score on a guy but its terrible for the team concept.

Last night you see why I value Josh so much. When he wasn't on Cousins and was playing mainly his own man and not help defending, we were getting scorched. When LD made the switch and Josh made a point of staying in front of his man, we made the huge run. I was always told that the sign of a good defender isn't that he doesn't get scored on, it's how tired the other guy gets in order to score.

[Blunt91]

Didn't Isiah talk crap about teague a few years ago. I think some reporter asked him about how the Hawks were doing in the playoffs and I think he made some remarks about Jeff.

[Jody23]

Hopefully, now Josh will continue to focus on how he really helps this team and stay away from the things he's not so good at.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

Hopefully, now Josh will continue to focus on how he really helps this team and stay away from the things he's not so good at.

lol

Why does so many fans want Josh to be "perfect" and no other player? It doesn't work like that. Josh is Josh just like ever other player. They all have their faults.

Listening to Steve Smith on the radio yesterday. He said reason why the Hawks can't get over that hump is because of no patient. He said "think about Josh put up numbers across the board that NO ONE in the NBA history has done. That is amazen."

(He put emphasis on the bold words.)

I knew this but to hear the way he said it gave me chills. It made me say to myself, he is right but because Josh isn't that perfect guy on offense I let that blind my view of him.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

@b2n

There is a real difference between fans who watch games from a Hero perspective (guys who played a lot of 21) and fans who played sports seriously in high school / college (guys who played more 5 on 5).

Good high school programs are grounded in defense / rebounding and floor spacing. When I watch our Hawks and you hear me criticize our players, the number one thing you'll hear me complain about is poor defense. Because I'm a bigger fan of basketball as a whole then basketball dunking and 1on 1 play, I'll railroad a guy quickly for being a lazy defender than for missing easy shots at the rim. The tell tale sign for me is when someone is a great 1 on 1 scorer. Their defense will usually be suspect.

This was my problem with JJ. JJ preferred switching off screens than fighting through them. He preferred funneling his man than staying in front. It why I criticized his overall play. Everything he did emphasized the individual, from holding the ball too long to clearing out. It's cool to watch him score on a guy but its terrible for the team concept.

Last night you see why I value Josh so much. When he wasn't on Cousins and was playing mainly his own man and not help defending, we were getting scorched. When LD made the switch and Josh made a point of staying in front of his man, we made the huge run. I was always told that the sign of a good defender isn't that he doesn't get scored on, it's how tired the other guy gets in order to score.

You are right man, the media using this social media crap has really hurt our fans view.

To be honest, if you don't go watch the games for yourself you can easly fall into their trap too.

[Jody23]

lolWhy does so many fans want Josh to be "perfect" and no other player? It doesn't work like that. Josh is Josh just like ever other player. They all have their faults. Listening to Steve Smith on the radio yesterday. He said reason why the Hawks can't get over that hump is because of no patient. He said "think about Josh put up numbers across the board that NO ONE in the NBA history has done. That is amazen."(He put emphasis on the bold words.) I knew this but to hear the way he said it gave me chills. It made me say to myself, he is right but because Josh isn't that perfect guy on offense I let that blind my view of him.

I said nothing about expecting perfection nor do I think most fans are asking for it either. What most of us have been asking for is for him to show a little more discipline and self-control on the offensive end. That's all. Sure, alot of the booing and criticism is over the top, but alot of the criticism is spot on. Just because he is a terrific defender doesn't give him permission to do whatever he wants on offense. To his credit, the last game, he played a very controlled game offensively and didn't try to do too much. I think Ferry's willingness to entertain trade offers shows that while he values him, he's going to have to do things the right way if he's going to be here.

[Brotha2ThaNite]

I said nothing about expecting perfection nor do I think most fans are asking for it either. What most of us have been asking for is for him to show a little more discipline and self-control on the offensive end. That's all. Sure, alot of the booing and criticism is over the top, but alot of the criticism is spot on. Just because he is a terrific defender doesn't give him permission to do whatever he wants on offense. To his credit, the last game, he played a very controlled game offensively and didn't try to do too much. I think Ferry's willingness to entertain trade offers shows that while he values him, he's going to have to do things the right way if he's going to be here.

That's my point. You say that and that's true but did you know players like Teague, KK, Al and other players have problem with defending... They all can do those samething to improve their defense but we as fans don't emphasis that from them.

Do you remember when they put the big 3 in Boston? Two of the three weren't the best of defenders. They made a pack to work on their defense and that's what won them the NBA Finals. LBJ had to work on his defense too.

I'm not out to bash any of my Hawks players. Teague, Al, KK and Josh are starting to come together well. My point is you can look at mostly every player and said that.

A lot of ppl don't want to hear it but that is the coaches job to get in that player's face. Woody did this to Josh. Woody did it to AL too. You wouldn't know this because the media didn't report it. If you weren't play defense Woody would get on you.

If LD had that in him, sub better and he needs to get in the refs face more when our players are getting hacked with fouls... He would be that perfect coach too. lol

Get a coach that is a little more discipline and you will see our players play that way.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Brotha2ThaNite

[benhillboy]

Y'all gotta get off Kyle now. Sure he has problems with lateral quickness, but he hustles his ass off getting back and closing out, keeps his arms up, usually commits tough fouls, and disrupts passing lanes even when he doesn't see the ball. Our Points allowed has creeped up steadily since our high mark of 6th overall to 96.2, but when Teague is focused and in sync with everyone else on the perimeter, we have shown we can stop almost anybody. How many teams can prevent LeBron from scoring on a break-away without committing a foul? Guys stepping up and taking tough assignments and being successful against such a pure post scorer like Josh did against Cousins was a great defensive adjustment by Drew.

Edited February 23, 2013 by benhillboy

[AHawks89]

This is exactly why I value Josh A LOT. Seems like a lot of fans do not know/care about the the whole package of a player. I've always said/noticed that when Josh is out of the game, the team either takes a huge lead or makes our lead margin go away. Glad to see people notice this. It's not just tonights game, Josh plays this type of defense every night.

[JackB1]

I cannot considered Josh a great defensive player because of the main fact that he does not give a good effort every time on the defence. Yes he is good at blocking shots coming of the weak side, that is his greatest asset on defense. But he is not good at guarding 1 on 1 in the low post or when he gets switched out on the perimeter. Quicker guards easily go around him for layoffs all the time. I think Horford is a much better man on man defender then Smith. If you take away Josh's highlight reel blocks his defense is very ordinary. Plus he will do many more things that negate his 2 or 3 blocks per game anyway so who cares about his blocks?Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

[AHawks89]

I cannot considered Josh a great defensive player because of the main fact that he does not give a good effort every time on the defence. Yes he is good at blocking shots coming of the weak side, that is his greatest asset on defense. But he is not good at guarding 1 on 1 in the low post or when he gets switched out on the perimeter. Quicker guards easily go around him for layoffs all the time. I think Horford is a much better man on man defender then Smith. If you take away Josh's highlight reel blocks his defense is very ordinary. Plus he will do many more things that negate his 2 or 3 blocks per game anyway so who cares about his blocks? Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

WTF LOL!

Edited February 23, 2013 by AHawks89

[Jody23]

That's my point. You say that and that's true but did you know players like Teague, KK, Al and other players have problem with defending... They all can do those samething to improve their defense but we as fans don't emphasis that from them.

Do you remember when they put the big 3 in Boston? Two of the three weren't the best of defenders. They made a pack to work on their defense and that's what won them the NBA Finals. LBJ had to work on his defense too.

I'm not out to bash any of my Hawks players. Teague, Al, KK and Josh are starting to come together well. My point is you can look at mostly every player and said that.

A lot of ppl don't want to hear it but that is the coaches job to get in that player's face. Woody did this to Josh. Woody did it to AL too. You wouldn't know this because the media didn't report it. If you weren't play defense Woody would get on you.

If LD had that in him, sub better and he needs to get in the refs face more when our players are getting hacked with fouls... He would be that perfect coach too. lol

Get a coach that is a little more discipline and you will see our players play that way.

I agree with alot of what you said. But, there's something that hasn't been said that needs to be.

Do the other players have weaknesses? Absolutely. Korver is not a good individual defender. There's not a lot he can do to change that as he's physically limited. Horford isn't a strong shot blocker as he doesn't have great lift around the basket. There's not a lot he can do to change that. None of those guys have the physical tools and talent Josh has so it's no wonder he's a special defender.

Here's why those guys don't get killed for their weaknesses the way Josh does. Unlike those other guys who try not to let there weaknesses repeatedly be seen, Josh invites his weaknesses. He runs to them and he blatantly shoves them down our throats. You see, unlike some others, HE CAN help his weakness because it's not physical, but mental. No, he's not dumb or ignorant. He has a self confrol issue.

No one is saying "you can never take a jumper". That would be ridiculous. But to continue taking them at an enormous clip while you know you're terrible at it shows brazen disregard for the obvious. No one is saying "never dribble the ball". That would be ridiculous. But to continue to regularly try to dribble up the floor and play point guard when it's been shown that you struggle there and it's not your role is again a brazen disregard for the obvious. The fans aren't stupid. They see that and for better or worse, he gets criticized for. In essence, he invites alot of this on himself.

The good news is that those things are coming to an end even if Josh is re-signed. It will because Ferry has put his foot down. Make no mistake, the trade rumors were not merely about business. Ferry was sending a message. This blowing up in practice and this on court stuff won't be tolerated going forward. Of course Drew won't be the guy to do it, but I agree with you that the next coach will instill discipline in his game. Thus far it seems like Josh has gotten the message. If Dwight coming here is a virtual certainty as you have insisted, then Josh wants to be a part of that and was admittedly sweating bullets when it seemed like he would be traded. Ferry will dictate how this thing goes, not Josh.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Jody23

[TheFuzz]

Josh is a fantastic defender.

Concerning Horford's defense, it's been made apparent he has trouble guarding the low post. He moves his feet well and uses his hands on the perimeter so he can step out on guards and face-up bigs, but he gets scored on by players who can post up and push him around. It looks like Horf has got a high center of gravity so he gets knocked around a bit.

[Jody23]

Josh is a fantastic defender. Concerning Horford's defense, it's been made apparent he has trouble guarding the low post. He moves his feet well and uses his hands on the perimeter so he can step out on guards and face-up bigs, but he gets scored on by players who can post up and push him around. It looks like Horf has got a high center of gravity so he gets knocked around a bit.

I think that is a fair assessment of Horf defensively against bigger players which reinforces what C-Viv said in an interview last week, that the new regime sees Horford as a PF playing center and want to add a center to play next to him.

[TheNorthCydeRises]

I still marvel at the game I saw down in Memphis, and the defensive job that Josh Smith did on Rudy Gay. The Hawks defense was as good that night, as I've seen in tin 3 years.

The sad thing is that Josh will get overlooked once again for Defensive Player of the Year or for that 1st team All-Defensive selection. People get way to enamored with block shots and steals, when they ought to be looking at how certain players can flat out shut people down from scoring.

Josh's defense on most SFs has been nothing less than stellar this season. But the media stays fixated on Ibaka and Lebron so they'll get 1st team All-Defense selections. Actually, Durant has been outstanding defensively this year, so he might get the nod over Ibaka.

The key for Josh making the leap to being a great defender, is his rebounding. Like it or not, rebounding is a part of defense, because it officially ends your opponent's possession. On a smallish team like ours, we need need more double-doubles from Josh and Al, and less 5 or 6 rebound games.

[Jody23]

Tonight's game further proves my point about why Josh gets flamed soo much. He brings it on himself by trying to do things he shouldn't do. Plain and simple.