Official Game Thread: Hawks - Raptors

[lethalweapon3]

The Toronto Raptors, at 16-30, have lost four straight, and Andrea Bargnani isn’t coming through that door. Lead guard Kyle Lowry has an undisclosed illness and is questionable for tonight’s game at Air Canada Centre versus the Atlanta Hawks. Quincy Acy is likely out with a groin injury. And their major mid-season trade acquisition, Rudy Gay, has a sore back and may not be available. You know what all of that means, dontcha, Hawks fans? That’s right! Hawks will fall behind by double-digits again! It’s safe to suggest that no halfway-decent NBA franchise plays up the inverse relationship between “opponents unavailable” and “likelihood of winning comfortably” quite like our dear Atlanta Hawks can. We saw it in Indiana on Monday, as broadcasters were forced to dig into the back of their media guides to figure out who were these pinstriped players lighting up the Hawks’ starters. And we saw it in Atlanta back on January 30, not long after two Raptors starters found out Delta truly is Ready When You Are, getting the “You Just Got Traded” rug pulled out from under them, and sent off to new teams less than two hours before tip-off at Philips Arena. Rookie Jonas Valanciunas, Mickael Pietrus, and Linas Kleiza were out of commission, too. Being down to just nine guys at Coach Dwane Casey’s disposal didn’t stop the transformation of rarely-used John Lucas III into Lucas with the Lid Off, ringing up 19 points as a reserve to outscore Atlanta’s entire bench. That was just ahead of the accounting firm of Alan Anderson (15 points), the 30-year-old journeyman suddenly thrust into starting action. Aaron Gray got more offensive rebounds (4) than Atlanta’s whole team (3). Toronto staked out a 13-point lead in the first half before the Hawks could figure a way to Stop the Insanity in the third quarter, largely behind some short-range offense from Josh Smith. Once ahead, Atlanta could barely shake free of the residual Raptors, needing heroics from Al Horford (four points and two blocks in the final minute) plus some mad scrambling (and, according to Casey, some blind refs) to pull a one point win out of their tailfeathers. What does Coach Larry Drew have up his sleeve to keep Toronto from becoming the Land of the Loss? Perhaps he will hold out a short hook when his starters are either not executing the game plan or proving to be effective. He may have reached that conclusion Monday after several reserves, most notably new permanent fixture Shelvin Mack (10 points and 4 assists), led a spirited charge to put a relaxed Pacer squad suddenly on their heels. To avoid extended time on the pine, Jeff Teague will need to direct the offense and make crisper passes (1 assist and 3 turnovers in over 28 minutes) than he displayed in Indianapolis. He’ll also want players on the floor who can get to the line and knock down some shots. The Hawks left 10 points from free throw attempts off the boards, the most misses in a game in over three months. Led, if you will, by Amir Johnson (3.8 personal fouls per game, tops in NBA), the Raps slap opponents a league-leading 22.9 times per game, leading to an NBA-high 26.7 free throw attempts by their foes. Absent Lowry (38.1 3FG%), Lucas (37.8%) and Anderson (35.1%) represent the Dinos' primary three-point threats. They will beat teams with mid-range shots (largely by DeMar DeRozan) and second-chance opportunities (primarily via rebounds by Amir Johnson and Valanciunas). Converting turnovers into points turned the Pacers game from laughable to watchable late in the final quarter. Toronto is 5-23 when they commit 15 or more gaffes, 21-21 otherwise. The Hawks player who leads the team in steals on a per-minute basis? Why, it's Ivan Johnson (1.9 thefts per 36 minutes), who enjoys taking charge by taking charges as well. On offense, Ivan can bang inside and draw those Raptor fouls, and has been doing a better job with his free throw shooting. He has shot 80% on free throws in the last two weeks, but has had no trips to the line in his last three appearances. Go Hawks! ~lw3 View the full article

[Watchman]

I liked it when the Raptors used to be referred to as "Team Barney".

[benhillboy]

I liked that young Raptors team back in the day with Vince, T-Mac, and Chrisitie. Didn't they come within a game or two of the Conference Finals? I've never subscribed to the philosophy of tanking to get great players, but the older I get, the more I understand and are able to at least empathize with those who do believe in it. Of course you have to have a great GM and not the one we had who pissed all over our picks that should've yielded franchise players. I watched Vince last night and came away thinking he's one of the more underrated players in NBA history. I think he's in on the First Ballot easily even without the greatest of playoff resumes.

[lethalweapon3]

Magic Number time! And one is the loneliest number. Win and you're in, but the playoffs might be clinched for us before the Hawks finish up tonight. The Sixers host the Bucks at the same time the Raps and Hawks square off. But we might be pulling for the Sixers to win anyway, since we're building up HEAT insulation for the first round. The Magic Number for the 7-spot in the East is 8.

~lw3

[benhillboy]

I'm not so scared of the Heat. They rebound awfully just like us. I'd employ the strategy Drew used against Dwight and let LeBron get his, no matter what it is. 40, 50, whatever. Him getting the other scrubs on that team shots is the foundation to their success. That and their relentless defense of passing lanes. Lock Wade down, actually guard the three point line, and see what happens. Every matchup in the East has its pros and cons. We aren't good enough to try to manufacture a matchup and not bad enough to be running away from one.

[AHF]

I think he's in on the First Ballot easily even without the greatest of playoff resumes.

It is very difficult to be a first ballot HOFer in the NBA. Nique finished as the #9 scorer in NBA history and didn't make it in on his first try. Joe Dumars won championships both as a player and as an exec and didn't make it in on the first try.

I don't know that Vince should make it at all but setting that aside, he is not likely to get in on the first try. He would have better luck getting in immediately if he was a college coach or was a foreign player who dominated in some backwater foreign league for his career.

Here are is the 2012 class admitted to the basketball HOF while guys like Bernard King and Artis Gilmore can't get in:

Lidia Alexeeva (dominant player among Russian females)

All American Red Heads (female team from the 1930's)

Donald Barksdale (one time NBA All-Star but there on basis of race barrier)

Phil Knight (never played competitively)

Katrina McClain (I'm a fan but over Gilmore and others?)

Hank Nichols (official)

Ralph Sampson (for his college career)

Jamaal Wilkes (for his college career)

Don Nelson (NBA coach)

Mel Daniels (ABA career)

Reggie Miller (NBA career!)

Chet Walker (NBA Career!)

So for those counting at home that is 17% of the 2012 class that got in based on their NBA playing resume and 25% of the players who got in on their professional playing resumes.

Literally being a Division II coaching legend or being a standout minority in some league that couldn't sniff the NBA from a mile away gets you a better chance of being a HOFer than many players who dominated in the NBA.

[lethalweapon3]

Starting tonight...

T lliver!

~lw3

[lethalweapon3]

Rudy Gay and Kyle Lowry will lace up for T-dot.

Kyle joins Anthny at the wing spots.

~lw3

[Ruckus]

Does anyone else get the feeling that Jeff and Josh secretly (although seemingly not so secretly) don't like each other?

[benhillboy]

WTF am I looking at right now? My Hawks playing as if they don't get paid mills for this sh@t.

Edited March 28, 2013 by benhillboy

[benhillboy]

It is very difficult to be a first ballot HOFer in the NBA. Nique finished as the #9 scorer in NBA history and didn't make it in on his first try. Joe Dumars won championships both as a player and as an exec and didn't make it in on the first try. I don't know that Vince should make it at all but setting that aside, he is not likely to get in on the first try. He would have better luck getting in immediately if he was a college coach or was a foreign player who dominated in some backwater foreign league for his career. Here are is the 2012 class admitted to the basketball HOF while guys like Bernard King and Artis Gilmore can't get in: Lidia Alexeeva (dominant player among Russian females)All American Red Heads (female team from the 1930's)Donald Barksdale (one time NBA All-Star but there on basis of race barrier)Phil Knight (never played competitively)Katrina McClain (I'm a fan but over Gilmore and others?)Hank Nichols (official)Ralph Sampson (for his college career)Jamaal Wilkes (for his college career)Don Nelson (NBA coach)Mel Daniels (ABA career)Reggie Miller (NBA career!)Chet Walker (NBA Career!) So for those counting at home that is 17% of the 2012 class that got in based on their NBA playing resume and 25% of the players who got in on their professional playing resumes. Literally being a Division II coaching legend or being a standout minority in some league that couldn't sniff the NBA from a mile away gets you a better chance of being a HOFer than many players who dominated in the NBA.

Good read. I think the unusal longevity of play at a high level of some of the guys from the late 90's will factor in heavily. I know the Hall is hard as hell to get in, and it should be, but just raw numbers for Vince (21, 5, and 4 over 15 years) sounds like a HOF to me. How many guys can boast of that? 0 All-NBA Teams definately will hurt his case, though. But I agree, if Bernard King ain't in then Vince damn sure aint. And I love Nike just as much as any other 80's baby, but Phil Knight?! Edited March 28, 2013 by benhillboy

[Ruckus]

Quite the turnaround in this game. I can dig it.

[benhillboy]

That boy Teague a godd@m beast. Al been one. No more welcome sight than seeing Josh on the bench for the fourth. Good job, Drew. Lets Go.

[Kimsey]

Congrats for this team to clinch a spot with 10 games left.

[lethalweapon3]

Way to go, Ivan! I guessed right on the pregame hype for once!

I'll be spending my evening replying to all the preseason "Mannnn, Hawks ain't even making the playoffs" comments I got in non-Squawk forums.

~lw3

[MrMeltdown]

Good rubberband.

[cam1218]

It is all pretty simple actually. I feel like these points are always true.

[*]Horford always plays well, so you expect a good game from him. He is our best player and when he is on like tonight we are very very tough to beat. [*]If Teague plays well, we almost always win too. Not just with his shot, but when he realizes it isn't falling and still gets his assists we look good on offense. Teague gets lost in games and you can see him sulking, he needs to grow up and always find ways to impact games. [*]When Josh drives to the hoop we are happy. When Josh is on the bench and we are winning, most of us aren't surprised. [*]Ivan deserves minutes and I don't know what else he needs to prove. [*]We have a lot of guys that can shoot threes. If they are on, we usually win as well. If they aren't shooting well, Josh usually tries to pick up the slack and we know the end result.

[Mully]

You cant get assists if the guys you are passing to dont/cant finish !

[cam1218]

You cant get assists if the guys you are passing to dont/cant finish !

If a good pass counted as an assist we would see all PG's average over 10 assists per game.

The real good PG's control the offense and only pass the ball when there is a good shot open. Teague passing to Josh for a three is both players fault, Teague knows he will miss it and Josh is going to shoot it.

During the Millwauke game, I remember a possesion in the 4th. I think Horford got an offensive rebound and looked around and saw Josh waving his arms beyond the three point line. Horford literally looked at him and ignored him, passed the ball to Teague and either Teague or Horford scored. It was pretty obvious too, you could tell Horf didn't want Josh shooting that three.

[Mully]

If a good pass counted as an assist we would see all PG's average over 10 assists per game.

The real good PG's control the offense and only pass the ball when there is a good shot open. Teague passing to Josh for a three is both players fault, Teague knows he will miss it and Josh is going to shoot it.

During the Millwauke game, I remember a possesion in the 4th. I think Horford got an offensive rebound and looked around and saw Josh waving his arms beyond the three point line. Horford literally looked at him and ignored him, passed the ball to Teague and either Teague or Horford scored. It was pretty obvious too, you could tell Horf didn't want Josh shooting that three.

The real good PG's find the open man ... and Jeff does this consistently . All a PG can do is find the open man, if it just so happens that the only open guys are poor shooters then the good ones have to work harder to get free or the coach has to improve the plays called.